PAMB and its quotes

CatSlave · Oct 3, 2007

You'd think PA would jump at the chance of national television coverage to give the company executives *face time* in front of millions of viewers, from sea to shining sea.

Willem could promote the next leg of his Hellocopter fiasco and pump the audience for more "Hello" cards and new manuscripts.

Actually, I'd love to see some happy, happy authors duke it out with Miranda on the Jerry Springer show.

They could title the show "Where's My Royalty Check, Biatch?"

Komnena · Oct 3, 2007

Does even Stephen King get a three million dollar check in two months after his latest comes out?

jamiehall · Oct 3, 2007

Gillhoughly said:
Okay--I did it. I went to the Dr. Phil site and sent them a mail concerning what PA is and why they are bad news.

I expressed a wish that Dr. Phil not be made to look a fool by offering free advertising to a piece of work like PA.

I listed about a dozen sites (including this one, P&E, the Washington Post) with reports about PA.

It would help if they got MORE such mails in.

Keep it simple, less is more, just tell them PA is bad and give them links to justify your assertions.

If you are a PA victim, tell your story.

http://www.drphil.com/plugger/respond/?plugID=9164

Use your real name & address, pro pub credits if any. Truth is the best weapon against PA.

Don't just tell Dr. Phil's people, send some letters to the rest of the media as well. Even if the Dr. Phil show doesn't want to look into it, I can easily imagine that other media outlets will find it worthy of a look. Just think, a story about the Dr. Phil show messing up so badly on not doing the proper research that it treated one of the worst publishing scams as if it were a legitimate publisher. Someone has to want to do an article about that. And, once they do, then even if Dr. Phil's people didn't want to initially look into it, they would be forced to address the issue by some sort of public apology or retraction.

By the way, which links are best in being credible to journalists and getting the point across quickly? I know The Washington Post article is probably the best, but what else should top the list?

TwentyFour · Oct 3, 2007

The way it looked to me, Dr. Phil said the ms was unpublishable due to the dispute.

tlblack · Oct 3, 2007

A few letters to the tv network couldn't hurt either.

Welcome back CatSlave... hope you are doing well.

Alien Enigma · Oct 3, 2007

JCT said:
No on Alien Enigma's board, aka "where the insane run free".

That reminds me JCT. Weren't you banned from Absolute Write for being a guestbook slimer under the name of Zizban?

Rolling Thunder · Oct 4, 2007

My my...aren't we the troll this morning?

ETA: I noticed my singular post over there on the AS was deleted, Jeff. It wasn't mean, surly, or a shit-stirring post either; I only mentioned that you received some good benefit from using SYW here.

What are you afraid of anyway? Hey, maybe Uncle Jim and you can have another radio discussion about PA! After all, you've made claims that you trounced him soundly on the ol' airwaves. How about a rematch? For old times sake?

JCT · Oct 4, 2007

Alien Enigma said:
That reminds me JCT. Weren't you banned from Absolute Write for being a guestbook slimer under the name of Zizban?

No, wrong person.

Victory · Oct 4, 2007

Afinerosesheis; I also noticed nothing was said about it on the PAMB. A little odd? [/quote said:
PA probably already deleted the topic, if one had been started. I noticed they do things like that, when it tends to look bad on them. I noticed they moved my post to private, and then deleted it, the one about me b*tching about not getting my author copies. Then another PA author chimed in with her story, and after I said I had threatened them, it was relocated to private.

Popeyesays · Oct 4, 2007

SouthernWriter1978 said:
The way it looked to me, Dr. Phil said the ms was unpublishable due to the dispute.

He did say that. His whole point though was that the book was NOT the issue between the mother and daughter and got them to admit it as well.

He's right. These people are in deep doo-doo in their relationship and the doo-doo is not the result of eating too much PA Pie in the Sky. They built up a life-time of antagonism and dysfunction long before any words hit paper.

This particular manuscript is dead and buried, decapitated, it's mouth stuffed full of garlic, a wild rose stake through its heart, in an unmarked grave beneath a cross roads.

That said, the mother is perfectly within her rights to tell her own story as long as she does it in a new manuscript.

No publisher in its right mind (even, God be Praised!, PA) will touch that manuscript until the mother signs off on it.

As to writing her own book, the mother need not consult the daughter for anything, as long as she writes her own manuscript.

Maybe someone should approach her and offer to ghost it for her, might actually be some money in it if the authors stay the hell away from PA.

Regards,
Scott

Regards,
Scott

Popeyesays · Oct 4, 2007

Rllgthunder said:
My my...aren't we the troll this morning?

ETA: I noticed my singular post over there on the AS was deleted, Jeff. It wasn't mean, surly, or a shit-stirring post either; I only mentioned that you received some good benefit from using SYW here.

What are you afraid of anyway? Hey, maybe Uncle Jim and you can have another radio discussion about PA! After all, you've made claims that you trounced him soundly on the ol' airwaves. How about a rematch? For old times sake?

I think paranoia has bloomed, matured, wilted, and already dropped its seed for the next generation over there.

Regards,

Scott

Jersey Chick · Oct 4, 2007

Here's what I've found on PAMB regardind Dr. Phil:

http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=23721

Not a whole lot of discussion, though. Funny...

or maybe not

JCT · Oct 4, 2007

Jeffy started it but the show was so non PA there wasn't a lot to discuss.

Sunnyside · Oct 4, 2007

Yeah, but did you see this comment from one PAer?

"What publisher would be so dishonest as to say that they would have a million copy best seller? I could not have been PA, I assure you, because my book has sold only a fraction of that number. Can you imagine the letdown that mother and daughter would experience. The result was the book would not be published at this time."

I can't tell whether she's being serious or sarcastic...

ResearchGuy · Oct 4, 2007

Komnena said:
Does even Stephen King get a three million dollar check in two months after his latest comes out?

No way. He gets it as an advance against royalties, before publication.

--Ken

TwentyFour · Oct 4, 2007

I honestly believe Dr. Phil did research PA and that's why he made the sarcastic comment about the 3 million royalty check and how she should not expect that. Then he went on to say it wouldn't be touched since the ms was in dispute. I bet he knew and didn't want to say much (PA might sue him if he downed the company openly) and figured they might just work on the relationship between the mother daughter instead.

Mel · Oct 4, 2007

Watch the bouncing ball

Perhaps we should both continue to send emails to PA...Chapters indicated that they have not had any new listings from PA since March so the problem seems to be with PA not doing their part.

And PA will bounce the problem right back into Chapter's lap.

Must be nice to be so perfect. /sarcasm off

brianm · Oct 4, 2007

SouthernWriter1978 said:
I honestly believe Dr. Phil did research PA and that's why he made the sarcastic comment about the 3 million royalty check and how she should not expect that. Then he went on to say it wouldn't be touched since the ms was in dispute. I bet he knew and didn't want to say much (PA might sue him if he downed the company openly) and figured they might just work on the relationship between the mother daughter instead.

Sue him for what? Telling the truth? The representative said more, but it was obviously edited out. Her name is Batya Toso and she is/was a page formatter for PA. I don’t have her current job description available, but I’m sure it is forthcoming. (Makes you wonder, doesn’t it, Miranda? Are you quite confident all of your employees are faithful supporters and believers in PA?)

Jeffy, try starting out with an intelligent and meaningful post next time. This isn’t the PAMB nor is it your tiny little “writers” forum full of Pavadians preaching utter nonsense about the real publishing world.

You could try answering UJ’s questions about why you think PA is so wonderful or you could enlighten us on how PA has furthered your writing career.

You’ve been a vocal and strong supporter of this scam vanity press for many years, surely we’re missing something, anything, that backs up your claims that PA is a viable publishing alternative for a serious writer’s career?

Sheryl Nantus · Oct 4, 2007

I think PA had *no* idea of what the final edited product would look like when it went on the air.

otherwise they wouldn't have sent out this weak email pointing to an idiotic situation and a result that makes PA look anything BUT good.

JCT · Oct 4, 2007

The defense against libel is the truth.

JCT · Oct 4, 2007

Mel said:
Watch the bouncing ball

And PA will bounce the problem right back into Chapter's lap.

Must be nice to be so perfect. /sarcasm off

Maybe PA is giving up on Canada?

Sheryl Nantus · Oct 4, 2007

JCT said:
Maybe PA is giving up on Canada?

doubtful... why would they bother to try and get their books into a database when their primary target is to sell to their own authors?

they'll keep telling Canadians that the problem is on *their* side and, oh, buy your own books and sell them out of the trunk of your car, just to be sure.

jamiehall · Oct 4, 2007

SouthernWriter1978 said:
I honestly believe Dr. Phil did research PA and that's why he made the sarcastic comment about the 3 million royalty check and how she should not expect that. Then he went on to say it wouldn't be touched since the ms was in dispute. I bet he knew and didn't want to say much (PA might sue him if he downed the company openly) and figured they might just work on the relationship between the mother daughter instead.

Online scambusters aren't afraid of calling PA a scam, and their lawyers are not as big as Dr. Phil's lawyers. I'm sure it isn't fear that caused the omission.

Furthermore, the sarcastic comment about a first-time author not being able to expect 3 million on the first royalty check of their first book is the hard, cold truth for legitimate publishers, not just PA. A comment like that doesn't mean that Dr. Phil did do his research and considers Publish America a scam, it seems just as likely that he considered PA a legitimate publisher. It is a comment that could easily be construed to mean that Dr. Phil had not done his research.

Dr. Phil is right that the book isn't the real issue between the mother and daughter, and that the book is presently unpublishable due to liability issues, so that unless the mother signs an OK the question of publishing it can't even come up.

But, even with the casual, brief mention of PA, it was treated like a legitimate publisher and given tons of free advertising. No, Dr. Phil didn't actively promote PA, he just let it fester in the background of his show as if it had the right to be there. By not removing it, he tacitly endorsed it.

I think the embarrassment potential alone would have caused him to act differently if he had known PA is a scam: he either would have done the same show but kept any mention of the publisher out, or he would have briefly mentioned that the book had not actually received a legitimate publication offer, because PA is not a publisher.

BarbJ · Oct 4, 2007

Regarding the responses to Jeff's post on the dispute on the show:

"Anyone that lives in a dream that they will be rich from one of their books at least in the first couple months should be awakened from their dream state, with facts laid before them" (bolding mine), and re. the 1,000,000 copies to be sold: "...my book has sold only a fraction of that number..."

OMG, it's people such as these that keep the Kool-Ade flowing. But I'm having this marvelous mental image ... a book actually selling, oh, say a thousand copies ... PA being unable to meet the demand ... having to send out royalty checks for more than $10, accounting not being able to figure out how ... Miranda having a nervous breakdown right in the middle of her staff, them not having time to glance over but still snickering to themselves ... Willem trying to escape in the hellocopter while hysterical PAvidians cling to the skids, screaming, "But we only repeated what you TOLD us!" ... rocket launchers being prepped while Miranda's dragged away, her hair in flames ...

Ah, well, back to reality. My hopes are still on the IRS.

ResearchGuy · Oct 4, 2007

SouthernWriter1978 said:
I honestly believe Dr. Phil did research PA and that's why he made the sarcastic comment about the 3 million royalty check and how she should not expect that. Then he went on to say it wouldn't be touched since the ms was in dispute. I bet he knew and didn't want to say much (PA might sue him if he downed the company openly) and figured they might just work on the relationship between the mother daughter instead.

Dr. Phil's show is about relationships. Anything else is a side issue.

Anyway, publisher is irrelevant. Not one writer in ten thousand earns anything like that amount on a book. It was a fantasy figure for anyone who is not a Clinton or a Greenspan or one of a small handful of top-name established book authors.

Average first (and only) printing of a new general trade book (real publishers) is in the range of 3,000 to 5,000 copies. If sell-through of, say, 4,000 is achieved for a $25 hardback with royalties of (probably generously estimated here) ten percent of cover price, that would be $10,000. (Reduce the figure accordingly for a paperback.) Dr. Phil could easily laugh out loud at any projection much higher than that no matter who the publisher for any unknown author. He did not need to know anything about PublishAmerica to know the three million dollar figure was preposterous on its face.

--Ken

PAMB and its quotes

Mah tale iz draggin.

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