PAMB and its quotes

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TwentyFour

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Tired of seeing those quotes in NEPAT? Me too, so I'm starting this thread. I sometimes quote PAMB and ask if the info. is correct or if they are completely off base with publishing, I seen many others do the same...


So...


For those of us who want to quote the PAMB before the evidence is deleted...here you go!


I hate to click on the sites listed and the whole page or thread is gone, it may be easier to find it by quoting it first on here and referring someone to this thread...if not then a moderator can close it.


I'll start it out with this one:

Are you really sure that you want your book in a bookstore? Do you know that bookstore sales only account for 25% of the books that are sold. That means that 75% of the books are sold elsewhere. Stop to consider all the work that you will be doing for a very small return.

My first book retails for $17.95 if a bookstore was to order one copy and receieve the standard discount that means they would pay 10.77 for my book. My roryalty for that book would be a whopping .87 cents. Not hardly worth the time I would say.

Your book would have to sell several hundred to make you any money at all. I realize that many of us, myself include did not write our books just for the monetary gain, however I don't think that any of us wrote or books to see such a little return.

I would rather market the book myself and put the difference in my pocket instead of a cash register in a bookstore somewhere. Many people prefer to buy books directly from an author as they can tell others that the know an author.."see he autographed his book for me"...

Ok that quote is just wrong by all means! I hope they see the light soon, but from his/her posts it would seem they are the new poster boy for PAMB and have encouraged others to buy and pay for many other services (websites, etc.).

Anyone else have a quote that stands out to them?
 
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DamaNegra

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About NYLA:

PAMB said:
Hello,

Beware of the dog! They have a very bad reputation! They take fees! Look for on Internet, you will find more infos there.
Have a good day.

Tee hee.
 

TwentyFour

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Sounds like the pot calling the kettle black...IMO.
 

TwentyFour

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Here's a blast from the past...
Posted: Thu Sep 15, 2005 1:45 pm

87 cents this and 87 cents that...
If your goal is to sell your book as expensive as possible why not start your own bookstore? Geez greedy people...
so what if you only get 87 cents or 8 dollars or whatever... is that the only thing you are thinking of?

I don't care how much my book goes for because I have reached my goal and that was to get published...
 

Joanna_S

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Okay, the irony of this one was too great. After one member told a story about being approached by one of those cheezy 'anthologies' where the writer has to pay a few thousand dollars to be published, one of the other PAMB people said:

Remember the rule of capitalism.

People pay you for your products and services; only fools pay for their products and services.

This from a PA author. If only he owned a mirror.

-- Joanna
 

TwentyFour

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Has anyone ever gotten a 2 year contract for a second book? Is this normal? If it is, does it really take 2 years?
I found it funny that this poor woman has had one book published but thinks that a 2 year contract means it takes two years to get out?
I can only speak for myself, but if I find a book in the bookstore that intrigues me, paying the extra few dollars is a small price to pay for what could easily be several hours of enjoyment.
I do however find that I am adverse to buying books that are not of a certain quality of production. Nothing over the top. Just a basic solid book that doesn't fall to pieces when you actually "open" it.
Other than that, it's the synopsis and flipping through a few pages that is the deciding factor for me.
First of all, I have had PA books and got one or two from the local library and they did actually fall apart, and these were new books from PA! They just fell apart from lack of binding, lack of glue, lack of care to put them together.

I also do not believe a bookstore will have many PA books in it marked at the price PA sells them.
 

Christine N.

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That's why PA doesn't pay on 'cover price'... the prices aren't printed ON the covers!
How does anyone in a bookstore even know how much they are? It's not like bookstore employees go around with a price gun like the old days. The prices of all the other books are on the covers. The only stickers I ever see are the discount ones.

Just another thing PA does to get in the way of bookstore placement. Oh, and do the bar codes scan yet?
 

astonwest

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Christine N. said:
That's why PA doesn't pay on 'cover price'... the prices aren't printed ON the covers!
The prices used to be printed on the covers, and didn't pay on cover price back then either.

My personal guess was that authors would see the price listed on the cover proofs, and start asking too many questions about pricing (as I did).

If PA cared about their authors, I would have guessed they stopped putting the prices on so potential buyers wouldn't ask "Why are you selling this book for $5 if it originally sold for $19.95?"

But they don't, so I'll stick with my first guess...
 

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A printed price is also a common requirement of (book)stores. Therefore, PA had only to take it off and *poof* more insurance their books wouldn't stocked.
 

TwentyFour

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The old PA books I seen had them on the cover, thin 99 page paperbacks that fell apart and were priced at $14.95! I knew then (and I had yet to find this site) that PA was fishy. Once I read the book and found errors everywhere, I knew for sure!
 

TwentyFour

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I had this happen on ebay once, it is harder to fix when the guy is in Canada and being deleted from the site, now I know PA can pay them back!
I’ve personally purchased three books from PA authors. Actually, I’ve paid for four, but I only received three. “Why is that?” you may wonder. Well, through a mix-up, I bought a book from the PA book site and then shortly thereafter, I cancelled it and bought it directly from the author. Well, somehow the cancellation cancelled the book being sent, but it didn’t cancel the payment for the book coming out of my checking account. And then I never followed up on getting my money back from PA. It was my fault, not their’s.
 

astonwest

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Jo Scott said:
Once I read the book and found errors everywhere, I knew for sure!
If only I had purchased one of their books BEFORE signing a contract.

Even though it would be money in PA's pockets, it would almost be worth it to have a library of PA-examples, to loan out to people who are convinced they should sign with PA...
 

Popeyesays

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Look at the bar code on the book. The last three or four digits are the price. If they don't put it there, then that's probably why their bar codes don't scan right.

Regards,

Scott
 

Christine N.

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Ack. Ack. Ack. Snipped for brevity.

Publisher, a Book, a Few Random Thoughts

The subject was a publisher. In this case PublishAmerica. There are people out there that bad-mouth it so let me tell you my experience with the firm. Remember, please, that I've been dealing with various sorts of publishers for more than half a century. Since 1946 to be precise.

He keeps saying this, but I don't know which ones. Newspapers, magazines? Animals of a different color! If he'd ever dealt with a legitimate publisher, WHY is with PA? One must wonder. (ETA: Apparently the poster's experience with publishing IS newspapers and mags... again, NOT books. Books are a whole 'nother ball game, friend.)

I've dealt with good ones, bad ones, fair ones, unfair ones, honest ones, lying ones, cheating ones, greedy ones, sloppy ones, lazy ones and a couple of dozen other varieties.

Again, the question remains... I guess you didn't learn much about publishing for all your experience. Or maybe you're just stubborn? Not trying to be rude, but wondering WHY!

Considering all that it was downright annoying when PublishAmerica turned me down flat when I made them an offer I thought they couldn't refuse. And those bad-mouthers accusing them of accepting anything and everything, what a crock.

No, you just submitted late in the day. If you submitted it again the next day, early, voila! A contract! I wonder if anyone's ever tried resbumitting a 'rejected' manuscript.


Now when things don't go quite the way they want, those kind of people go off in a huff and write nasty posts on websites. Rank amateurs do that sort of thing.

Uh. huh. I really wish people would take a peek at WHO is doing the talking. Jim, Jenna, Victoria.. all rank amateurs with no credibility, right? I guess he did the same amount of homework on the bashers as he did on a publisher.
Oh, I'm SO jealous too, by the way.

And Miss Snark, along with all the other industry PROFESSIONALS (in books! real publishing!) who speak out against PA are people for whom things 'didn't go their way'. The mind boggles.

Being an old hand in the world of publishing

And yet....

Between times I was in contact with some of the nicest, most competent people I have ever encountered. Professionals in every respect. I don't stun easily after all these years but I was stunned by the efficiency and workmanship of Yael, the cover designer.

Yeah, just wait until you irritate them enough for a tone letter. Professional what? is my question. Yes, that cover designer can use clip art with the best of them.


Not only did he do a great job, he did it in three hours and he didn't have much to work with. The editor that handled my copy had the proof corrections made and back to me in twenty minutes. Then came the capper - the finished product exceeded my expectations in every respect.

Three WHOLE hours? How can you even think that quality work can be done in that time frame! Good art takes days, if not weeks. CLIP ART takes hours. The editor... 20 minutes, huh. How many errors did they put in? Your expectations are too low, IMO.

So what sort of person spends their time complaining about a company like that rather than acting like a professional in the writing game? Those that know nothing about the business, expect miracles, make unreasonable demands. In other words wannabes. Amateurs who feel it necessary to broadcast their shortcomings to the world. They may be forgetting one thing: the publishing world is a small one and every time they vent their frustrations with a nasty comment they are hurting their chances of acceptance with all publishers. They do read that stuff, you know, they do remember names. Like everyone, though, they ignore anonymous submissions of any kind. If a person lacks the courage to sign his name to something he has written he is not worthy of attention.

*picking myself up off the floor from laughing* Yeah, all those pros in the industry have a big list somewhere. Right. NOT. Espeically not for bad-mouthing PA, because they either a) know what it is or b) it's not even a blip on the radar.

WAKE UP! Look around... PA is knocking no one over in publishing. The industry continues to ignore them at every turn. You take that PA book and try to use it as a writing credit for a real agent or publisher, and see what they say.

Do the homework, my friend. Check out the "What the industry really thinks of PA" thread. LOOK at the credits of some of the people doing the talking.

Nope, talking about PA, exposing them, will never EVER hurt an author's chances of acceptance. No one will reject a book b/c of something said about PA.

I don't get the delusion some people labor under. Royalty checks are a-coming though.

*This is in no way a critique of the poster's work. I haven't read it. I'm only pointing out the continual spread of misinformation disguised as expert opinon. Real publishing experts that know of PA at all, agree that it is vanity in disguise. Don't fall for the hype.*
 
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JulieB

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Twenty minutes? Wow. I need to tell that to my editor. She's took way to long to edit my book. But then, what do those folks at big-name publishing houses know, anyway? ;-)
 
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Christine N.

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I know, right? My last book, I think we took a good three months of back and forth, cutting and rewrites. Of course, it's a children's book and about half the size of most novels.

It takes about 20 minutes to run a spell-check and accept everything without paying attention in a full-length, though, doesn't it?

It all seems rather ridiculous to me, what some people believe about this industry. Do the math, do the homework, and above all LISTEN to people who have been in it longer than you have. And by that I mean the part of the industry you're presently dealing with.

PS - from the same thread - I don't think anyone hates any individual author, and certainly NOT because of one singular opinion. Hate is a very strong word. Dislike? Ok, and not even the person, but the way in which opinion is expressed has a lot to do with it, especially when even simple points are not conceded. You might say I'm the same; but my opinions are based on what I KNOW about the industry, and that comes from things the nice people who actually work in it tell me. What reason is there to lie about it, when you can go to any library and find out the facts?? Some just don't wish to see the forest from the trees. If you're happy with PA, great. I suppose you don't want to be a career author - writing is just a hobby. Good for you.

Anyone who recommends PA to another author with aspirations of a writing career is doing that person a grave disservice, and I hope that person is not a close friend that you will miss when they find out the truth.
 
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Boy, I'm sure glad my editor doesn't spend three hours on my manuscript. As Christine mentioned, it takes 3 to 4 months, or even longer for a manuscript to shine like a new penny. Who in their right mind, would feel confident enough to see their book go to print with little time spent on editing it?:Shrug: But, I guess the above entry answered my question.

To this day, I'm still learning about the publishing industry. I welcome any info I receive, and I certainly would not bad mouth a person for trying to help me understand. ;)
 

Christine N.

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What's Carl's excuse then?

He must just enjoy being a salesmen. I'm not saying that in a bad way either, because some really do enjoy that type of work and are very good at it. Not me, not most writers I know, but maybe he does.
 

James D. Macdonald

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White Raven? I think he's aware that he's playing the Published Author Role-Playing Game, and all he ever wanted to do is play author.

That doesn't excuse his Judas Goat activites, but it does explain them.
 

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Published Author Role-Playing Game? Okay, maybe I'm just dense or slow, but I simply don't understand what this is all about. Why would someone go with PA or POD just to "play author" (whatever that means). It's like buying a counterfeit designer purse -- you know it's fake, other people know it's fake, so what's the point? Am I missing something here?
 
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JulieB

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Alas, there are people in this world who don't realize they're buying fakes. Then there are the people who buy the fakes and don't care because they think they got a deal. Then there are those who buy the fakes because they think they're beating the system. In the end, they usually cry when the bag falls apart a week later.

It's an egoboo. Someone can't afford the real bag so they buy the fake one in order to impress their friends. They're perfectly willing to overlook the fact that the label says "Briteon" or "Louie Louie Vitton" because darn it, they've joined the "in" crowd with their bags. They're playing the I've Got A Designer Bag game and it makes them feel special.

Of course, it isn't fair to dump everyone who goes POD into the same bag. POD is a technology, and there are good reasons for going with a real self-publishing outfit like Lulu, and they're discussed in-depth elsewhere on this site.
 

Christine N.

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Another country heard from. White Raven can't help himself, I don't think.

I don't know how much PA invests in each author: the costs associated with getting our books in all the on-line bookstores (mine was in at least 26 by last count), gives us our on WEB page and a message board to interact with our fellow PA authors, plus working with us on books covers, editing and etc.

Minimum time from new college grads who probably work for a pittance an hour. I don't know how much PA invests etither, but getting the book in print shape is only half the battle.

The investment cost per author must be substantial and amazes me that a company would risk so much for unknown writers with absolutely no guarantee of recovery.

They know they'll recover it as soon as you buy your first batch of books. They're laughing all the way to the bank. The only risk they take is that all your friends and family won't buy a copy. I doubt it's that much - what a couple hundred bucks?

If there is another publisher that does so much for so many authors, I am not aware of it.

This is really the most ridiculous statment I've ever heard. EVERY commercial publisher does more for their authors than PA, down to the smallest small press. Why? 'Cause they want to sell to the general public.

I am not naive enough to not know that there are major publishing houses that invest substantial amounts in a very select stable of authors; an author community that represents only one-half of one percent of all writers. I read the literary magazines and read what editors say about how they reject without getting past the first page and in some cases, the first paragraph.

Uh, Carl, if they're not reading past the first page or so, you need to rewrite it or find someone who likes it. My personal threshold is five pages. If you've got me still reading after five pages, I don't reject but request a partial. Many, MANY submissions I read don't make it past the first five pages. Some, I wish I could throw the computer across the room, some I fall asleep. You need a hook - it's one of the first rules of writing!

Submit, submit, submit. Literature tastes are subjective, sure. One editor may hate it, another love it. As UJ says, rejection is nature's way of telling you to write a better book.

I read about J. A. Konrath and his 500 rejections and three agents before publishing one word, and I have read J.A. Konrath. He is an excellent writer, and I think of all the excellent writers out there that will never go through the process that he did, myself included.

Joe is a heckuva businessman - and yet he went through all those rejections, probably rewrote, and STILL didn't go with PA. Think about that.

It is for all the writers good, bad and indifferent that Publish America is a godsend, because it means all of us unknowns are at least on equal footing, when it comes to the opportunity for having a book published, and for that Publish America has my commendation.

Why is it good for a bad writer? A bad writer can learn to become a good writer through rejection and critique, rather than going through the joy of being 'accepted' by PA and not realizing they need to write a better book! Good writers can do better than PA and get the distribution they're books deserve.
Carl, this is a silly statement.

Equal footing? How? The industry does NOT recognize PA books as credentials. Because they printed your book? If I ran by book through Lulu, does it give me equal footing?

PA is nothing more than a muddy slope. If you do actually make it to the top, Meiners and crew are waiting to shove you back down.
 

James D. Macdonald

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The investment cost per author must be substantial and amazes me that a company would risk so much for unknown writers with absolutely no guarantee of recovery.

I've gone over this before. Total cost to PA is around $300 per book, and they make that back (and more) on the author's first self-purchase (during the hurry-hurry-hurry 50% off period).
 
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