Wow is all I can say to this. Eight freakin years????
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090618/world/france_skorea_crime_infanticide_verdict
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/090618/world/france_skorea_crime_infanticide_verdict
Mother Gets 8 Years For Killing 3 Babies
- Thread starter brainstorm77
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She's not a monster? If she isn't, who is?
Grrr... there's a special place in hell for her. There really is.
Grrr... there's a special place in hell for her. There really is.
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1st, does the sentencing follow the law?
2nd, Is jail time the best solution anyway (what kind of punishment is it, really?)
3rd, What the fuck goes on in people's heads?
2nd, Is jail time the best solution anyway (what kind of punishment is it, really?)
3rd, What the fuck goes on in people's heads?
Sick sick sick woman. I truly can't wrap my mind around hurting a child...ever under any circumstances.
I can't say the same about some adults...
I can't say the same about some adults...
Yeah, what's the deal with that guy? Why would you bother going through with the wedding if you're gonna kill her on the honeymoon?
For those who haven't heard the story, there are pictures of his wife lying on the ocean floor dead after he removed her oxygen and held her still until she drowned on a scuba expedition in Australia.
Anyway, a year?! I guess life HAS lost a lot of it's value.
It also said no one had any idea she was pregnant.
How is it that hard to notice?
This whole thing is ridiculous.
How is it that hard to notice?
This whole thing is ridiculous.
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About a decade ago I was on a mailing list that discussed medical malpractice cases and at that time the average pay out for a wrongful death of a woman was one third the payout for if a man lost a testis. Granted civil court is different than criminal court, but yeah, there's some room for improvement.
Wow...hopefully those numbers have changed. I'd like to think that my entire body is worth more than a man's right you know what!
Based only on the evidence in the article, I would say the sentence is probably excessive.
Malice deserves punishment. Coldly hurting others for personal profit, ideological zeal or some other selfish motive deserves harsh retribution so the scales of justice might balance. But I don't see malice, ideology or profit motive here. This woman didn't gain anything. All there is, in my reading, is mental illness -- and mental illness demands therapy, not jail time.
This is not a crime, merely a tragedy.
My one doubt in the above has already been voiced -- how did her family fail to notice three pregnancies? If anything, I'd cast more of a suspicious eye at the husband in this case -- at the very least he had to be covering for her madness and thereby complicit in the second and third deaths.
Malice deserves punishment. Coldly hurting others for personal profit, ideological zeal or some other selfish motive deserves harsh retribution so the scales of justice might balance. But I don't see malice, ideology or profit motive here. This woman didn't gain anything. All there is, in my reading, is mental illness -- and mental illness demands therapy, not jail time.
This is not a crime, merely a tragedy.
My one doubt in the above has already been voiced -- how did her family fail to notice three pregnancies? If anything, I'd cast more of a suspicious eye at the husband in this case -- at the very least he had to be covering for her madness and thereby complicit in the second and third deaths.
I would be cautious in comparing sentencing of dissimilar crimes or payouts from dissimilar cases of malpractice -- this is a very sensational statement, created by choosing two unrelated facts and juxtaposing them to create a specific impression of grotesque patriarchialism.
How does the payout for the accidental death of a man compare to the accidental death of a woman? How about the accidental mutilation of a man's testes and a woman's ovaries? If, hypothetically, these values are similar regardless of gender, would not the above statement then be crafted to imply some kind of gender injustice when there is, in fact, none? In any case, wouldn't comparing a similar kind of malpractice across genders generate a more meaningful (if less sensational) statistic?
Is accidental death more or less likely to occur at the hands of a competent physician then accidental genital mutilation? Perhaps the latter is indicative of a deeper incompetence, in that some operations are more likely to endanger a patient's life even if done correctly, than those likely to specifically damage sexual organs.
I suspect that the actual results will show that malpractice resulting in genital mutilation for either gender will have an abnormally high damages payout, because it's a cultural squick no matter which sort of plumbing is 'under the knife'.
What about a random shooting? One in which the perpetrator doesn't benefit in any way from the killing? Is that person also just "mentally ill" instead of a murderer?
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Are you saying that our culture is not patriarchal? Actually the material did cover that other stuff and the payouts were significantly higher for men. They take out women's ovaries without batting an eye but as your post points out and what I've observed in trying to treat men with prostate cancer, when you mention taking out testicles, then it's fightin words.
You know, there are a fair number of cases where men kill their wives and kids in a rage. Presumably a significant proportion of them do so because of insanity, but I've never heard anyone make apologies for the psychiatric roots of any male-on-female crimes.
For example, if Andrea Yates' husband had drowned those five kids in the tub, I suspect he'd now be on death row, and there would have been far less outcry about his needing treatment. The culture is much more willing to see women as victims, and as crazy.
For example, if Andrea Yates' husband had drowned those five kids in the tub, I suspect he'd now be on death row, and there would have been far less outcry about his needing treatment. The culture is much more willing to see women as victims, and as crazy.
That depends on the state of the mind of the shooter -- and on your definition of "murderer". It's important to remember that "murder" as a legal term is not the same as the standard definition of the word.
Joe270
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So this woman murders three children, burns one of the corpses, and some folks buy into the defence argument that she's merely 'ill' and deserves a light sentance?
Of course, it's the husband who should be locked up for good, toss away the ole key. It's all his fault.
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Really, you haven't? Funny, because they happen all the time.
I think one of the main differences between cases in which men are accused of spousal/child murder as opposed to women is that men are statistically more likely to be perpetrators of domestic violence, and often domestic killings occur in households that have experience previous intrafamily violence. Many cases in which men kill their wives or children are not seen as eligible for an insanity plea because of evidence of previous abuse. Women are much less likely to be abusive (though it happens sometimes, obviously), so a woman murdering her family seems more surprising and might in fact be motivated by episodes of mental illness more often. That doesn't mean, of course, that there aren't women who abuse their families and that men aren't sometimes motivated by mental illness, but it's statistically much less likely for either of those situations to occur.
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I don't know if I understand. France defines murder as
Whether or not she knew she was pregnant--and the fact that she's not a first-time mother makes me question that argument--it doesn't dismiss the fact that she gave birth to THREE babies, suffocated them(all three in the same manner, if I read correctly), and made the decision to dispose of their bodies without anyone knowing.
Is she mentally ill? Yes, I'd say so. Is this the kind of mental illness that can be treated or cured? No, I don't think so. So if she's not going to get a life sentence in prison, I think she should at least get a life sentence to a mental institution.
Because if she "unknowingly" were to get pregnant again, what's to keep her from doing the same thing next time?
Malice aforethought is
I see both of these things here in this case, not to mention the fact that the only thing keeping her from being considered a serial killer of infants is one more baby, and even that is depending on who you ask.
Whether or not she knew she was pregnant--and the fact that she's not a first-time mother makes me question that argument--it doesn't dismiss the fact that she gave birth to THREE babies, suffocated them(all three in the same manner, if I read correctly), and made the decision to dispose of their bodies without anyone knowing.
Is she mentally ill? Yes, I'd say so. Is this the kind of mental illness that can be treated or cured? No, I don't think so. So if she's not going to get a life sentence in prison, I think she should at least get a life sentence to a mental institution.
Because if she "unknowingly" were to get pregnant again, what's to keep her from doing the same thing next time?
I wish this trial took place in America. I would hope that all the nitwits who interfered with stem-cell research for a number of precious freaking years would give this judge Hell for such a lax sentence.
Ugh. This makes me want to vomit.
*hugs own son*
There's a case going on here in Ireland at the moment about a husband and wife who raped all their 5 (6? 7?) children, including the babies, and forced them to have sex with each other. The mother even birthed her own son's child. This was ten/twenty years ago and when the authorities were first made aware, they did nothing. It's only now going to trial.
Things like that. I mean. I can't even.
That's not even bringing Fritzl into the picture.
Crimes against children -- mentally unstable or not, IDGAF. Throw them in hell.
*hugs own son*
There's a case going on here in Ireland at the moment about a husband and wife who raped all their 5 (6? 7?) children, including the babies, and forced them to have sex with each other. The mother even birthed her own son's child. This was ten/twenty years ago and when the authorities were first made aware, they did nothing. It's only now going to trial.
Things like that. I mean. I can't even.
That's not even bringing Fritzl into the picture.
Crimes against children -- mentally unstable or not, IDGAF. Throw them in hell.