Garments for newborn snakes! That would be something.
I'm honesty curious how it works out. At the moment, such things are viewed with some contempt, particularly in publishing. But conceptually, I am not opposed to book doctors, agent finders, or even vanity publishing for that matter. As long as the customer is fully aware of the ins and outs, alternatives, realistic returns on investment, and isn't getting scammed, I don't see it as any different than an entrepreneur hiring a marketing or business development consultant. It's a changing industry, and even ten years ago when I joined AW self-publishing was seen by many people as giving up. Today we have hundreds if not thousands of successful examples. Now, personally I don't want, or have the means, to invest several thousand dollars into each title I write and I would hate to see the industry go this way and require it. But that's what's right for me right now.
A very small something....besides, bigger priority is getting the snakes to eat and the christening gowns not to rip.
But yeah, I think of the writing more as a...personal desire to see something done up well. The concept of spending money on a book that won't return does seem idiotic if the goal was income in the first place. But the money I spend on snakes, or fabric for dresses, or on a new camera, etc, is never going to 'return' in finances -- rather, it's going to return in personal fulfillment. Spending money on a manuscript which then never returns in the amount of money the manuscript makes for me won't bother me, if I know that I've done as much as I can to make sure the manuscript reaches potential, for personal fulfillment.
But I totally get you -- this isn't the only option for improving the manuscript, it's just the one I want to take rn.
I fully realize what I am about to do.
So, sorry in advance.
Critiquing is not about critiquing other people's work. I know that sounds absurd, but critiquing is about learning how to edit, revise, and see
your own work in a completely different way.
At the risk of sounding unkind, if you're not in a place to crit others, are you in a position to take on the shitstorm of trying to get published? I'm not asking for an answer, just something to think about, because it's all part and parcel and it's hard to parse out the pieces we don't want to deal with at any given time.
When you receive a critique, you evaluate it, then take it or leave it. It may be helpful, it may not. But when you
give a critique, you are learning how structure works - where is it strong, where is it weak? You are learning that it's irritating when Every. Freaking. Paragraph. starts with a character's name. You are learning WHY things work and WHY things don't work. You are ALSO learning to measure your own
works in progress against other
works in progress instead of polished published works.
I mean, I hear you. You don't want to crit. That's fine for now, but it's to your benefit in more ways than I can tell you.
Last piece of advice - exhaust all free avenues before shelling out money.
Don't get me wrong -- definetly don't discounting the benefit of crit partners/beta swaps/etc. It is massively beneficial for personal skill growth and for getting stuff back.
I'm not never going to do crit partners again. I'm not even going to say this book isn't going to go through crit partners/beta readers again. I'm not saying that I'll even get the whole book done with a developmental edit.
But right now, what I do need is someone to work with one on one without me putting effort into someone elses stuff. No, that's not a long-term thing. It's just what I need right now.
And I hear you about the publishing thing though -- I'm confident about this at the moment, because I'm still editing and not doing query letters/any of that other horrible stuff, and most likely won't be doing so for another six months to a year. Everything could've changed by then. This is step one.
I remember reading your opener in SYW back when and, by and large, enjoying it.
Looking at what you've said here, I think the biggest thing you need to find is actually confidence. Unfortunately, you can't pay for that.
There's a period every writer goes through that involves hating his or her own work. Sometimes it's once, sometimes it reoccurs every book, sometimes every day. It's understandable, but rarely rational, so it's not something you can magically make disappear, even with a comment or two. Sometimes it helps to have a particular bit of positivity you can fall back on--I do this sometimes with the encouragement I got about writing from a teacher way back in grade school--but it's more of a meditative thing. You just find something.
The problem with what you're suggesting, aside from the cost, is that it won't fill that void of confidence. An editor won't do endless exchanges back and forth; a critique partner won't likely be someone with a lot of publishing experience.
A beta-reader sounds like your best option, really. Not every beta-reader expects a swap--I have beta-read without swapping before. I also often find that it's a process that can involve a lot more working with confidence than, say, a SYW thread. It's possible to discuss issues in greater depth, discuss concerns, swap revisions, and so on. I'm not a huge advocate of paid beta-reading, but such services do exist and sometimes carry a certain amount of experience/cachet, although like everything else in publishing, I'd approach them with a healthy dose of skepticism and a copy of Yog's Law in hand.
At some point, if your goal is publication, you will have to conquer the self-editing hurdle, and more, you will have to find a way to stay confident. Every writer, I think, struggles with this. You don't have to be a great critiquer; you don't have to love your own work (God knows many brilliant writers haven't); you don't have to always believe in yourself--but you do, at some point, have to be able to click "send" on a manuscript.
The good news is that this skill can be learned. And to be blunt, critiquing helps. So does working on another project. Neither of these things is exactly pleasant--learning rarely is--but they are things we do not because we're giving up on our dreams or being stubborn, but because we want to move forward with a project or career and sometimes in order to do that we have to accept what we have or seek out new ways to improve. Be stubborn about writing and the learning thereof, because that's what you want and love to do, not just one project.
I remember! It was my nineteenth birthday!
And I feel you on the confidence thing, and I won't lie, that's a little bit of the issue. But the thing is, for a long time the editing has been going in circles -- even if I try to leave it, write shorts, etc, I still can't figure out what to do with it now.
But I should note that I /think/ it's better than what I posted before. I sure as shit hope it is. Worked on the outlined issues and then other ones have cropped up (I can't identify them, but I just know from reading it it reads wrong).
Beta-reading is looking like a stronger possibility though.
Hi J.Catherine. I feel your pain.
Do you have an idea of 'big areas' where you might be weak? We all have weak areas. One of my weak areas is I can't seem to make my characters seem 'real.' I can do the technical side of writing, but making the characters feel real is a toughie.
Other people struggle with grammar, or syntax or story structure. Lots of things. One young guy at critique group is blind to the bias he injects in his work. He just doesn't see it. Some writers are very flowery to the point of distraction, and don't know how to dial it back. An older gal at the group has passion out the wazoo but cannot write a realistic action sequence to save her life.
Do you have an idea of the big area that you struggle with?
I ask because another option is to find a writing craft book specifically geared toward that weakness. There are so many out there--some are very good. If you aren't sure where your specific weak spots might be, then some general craft books that tackle the whole tamale are:
Manuscript Makeover
The first fifty pages
How not to write a novel (this one is hilarious.)
I mention looking for craft books because it hasn't come up yet in the thread. It might be a useful thing to try and some of these will probably be at your library.
Good luck.
Gawd I don't even know anymore -- I think one of the novel's most attractive qualities is the characters and the interplay between their personalities and such. So now I'm worried they're not 3D enough, because they really need to be very good for the thing to fly. The plot I find myself caring less about as the years go on, but it might just be the whole 'I've been writing this for five years' thing. A craft book might be an idea though. In general I find that method of learning not as effective, but anything's worth a shot now.
Good shout, thanks.
a plot tighter than Keanu Reeves' jeans.
Actually choked on my tea upon reading that lol.
But yes, I get your point. I think at the moment I'm still uncomfortable with it going onto that stage. I know it's not the best it can be -- I'm not happy with that being the final product of a book I've been writing since I was a teenager. Personally, I've resolved that I won't have lasting regret and bitterness if this never gets to print, as long as I can finish a copy I'm happy with.
I don't mean to abandon the book, btw. But writing a few short stories (even if they come to nothing) can be wonderful for a brain reset.
I wrote a few short stories and a different novel, and now I'm back at MS1. I will never give up on it, not really. Even if it's never published. Maybe deviating into a novel is too much of a detour for you (I can understand that) but idk, flash fiction is fun and like a palette cleanser
Ahh, I see. I've done a few of these -- spent a year doing midwifery, so that gives you lots of inspiration for dramatic birth scenes lol. But this is a strategy that is in the back of my mind if I need to use it again.
Interesting... I read that title as 'I have a really cool story, but want to pay someone else to write it.' Even after all these posts, i still see a bit of that from the OP. I know thats not her point, but it did make me wonder. I had a friend, years ago, we used to play RPG's back when we you know, did that stuff. He was great at coming up with stories, a literal idea-library, and some great ideas too. He fleshed out complete stories at times (in rough outline/bullet point form), and he thought they'd be great to 'see done'. But he wasn't going to write them. To be fair, he couldn't write... at all, and he did try a bit. Obviously that could be a learned skill over time, but he was the opposite of gifted. But creativity? My god. I'm the same way, but people have always told me i CAN write well, so i gave 'er a shot. But that guy... he makes me wonder. He loved his stories, he thought (as did we) that others would love them too, but he had NO interest in writing them. CAN you just pay someone to write YOUR book? My god... what would that cost? The 'book doctor' idea is a new one to me too. I didn't know that existed.
To the OP. This smells a bit like a few different other issues i've heard people deal with (non-writing), and what a lot of them did, was go to the universities (hell, maybe even the high schools, depending on what level of help you need). Perhaps look for some aspiring 'book doctor' type, still in school, and approach them with the idea? I dont know about the Isles, but here, university kids sneak lab rats and pick lawn grass for food they are so broke. 'Higher education' here is so absurd that Craigslist is teeming with gig ads from uni kids looking to make a bit with their developing skills. I didn't go to school, but when i was learning my craft (my day job), i gave it away for years. I didn't have to, and i got all kinds of grief for doing that, but i absolutely came out on top from it. I gave away for free what others charge $50-100/hr for, and i did it for years, but while i did that, I was learning. Better yet, i got to learn at my speed, the way I wanted to learn. I mean, when you're giving something valueable away, the receiver doesn't exactly get to tell you how, very unlike the professional world, where 'the customer is always right' (even though they are not). Anyways, i knew a book-lernin' girl that did something sort of similar to what you want, and she did it cheap (well, for the couple 'poor' years she was in school). Just an idea... might be worth a shot? This need actually seems right up that alley.
Huh interesting....I would say that actually, talent wise, I'm not the pinnacle of the wordcraft talent on earth at the moment. I do have that whole 'creativity' thing though. I've just taught and trained myself to write, and I'm reasonable(?) at the moment compared to where I started. Something like this does seem interesting, and perhaps if I had more money and less control issues I would've gone for a sort of 'ghost write my fiction story' thing. But I've written it now and I'm happy that I'm learning how to write more and more, it's just I need help now.
Students might be an option, but the tricky thing is they usually have little experience with books that are aimed for current day publishing and a lot of experience aimed at older books that are considered 'classics' now, but aren't exactly popular with the masses. This is why I didn't do an english lit degree.
But thanks for tip, will keep it in mind.
To the OP, you said that you have problems and you need solutions. An editor or book doctor will point out issues and what needs fixing, however they won't likely tell you how to fix it. For example, they might say that there are issues with characterisation and you need better developed characters, but they likely won't tell you how to do that.
Personally I think you might be in need of a course or book depending on what suits you best that can show you and teach you the solutions you need to improve your current MS, i.e. how do you create complex characters, how do you create pacing in a narrative, etc...
An online course is an option. And I hear what you're saying about editors, which is why the avenue of beta-ing is opening up in my mind as well. Thank you for your suggestion.
