Civil War novel too cliche? (even if its historical fantasy?)

Trauntj · Nov 18, 2009

I've looked around and noticed that there are many novels about the civil war (around 1863), and wondered if its gotten too cliche as far as plot settings. On the other hand, if I pick an obscure war for a setting, it wouldn't interest most people because they can't relate. (I want to use a war for an analogy in the story, and I really would like to see my plot deal with the time and setting)

I know the writing really makes the novel, but who will pick it up if they've seen the setting too many times before? I'm making it a historical fantasy, but I just wanted to know what everyone's opinions on cliched setting are. Then again, I haven't seen a historical fantasy placed in that time (as far as I know. if you know of one, please tell me) so I might be an exception

I'm considering switching the setting to World War I as well.

Tanydwr · Nov 18, 2009

I can't say I've come across loads of those novels, but then I'm a British reader. What about using the English Civil War between the Royalists and Parliamentarians as a basis instead? You get to chop the monarch's head off. Of course, it depends how modern you want things...

Kitty Pryde · Nov 18, 2009

When you say historical fantasy, do you mean alternate history? Like, Civil War, BUT WITH DRAGONS! Or, World War One, BUT WITH FAIRIES!? If so, both WW1 and Civil War are well-tread territory within the genre (check out Baen Books and the works of Harry Turtledove especially). I don't think the setting is cliched, though.

For me it's WW2 England--I will read any number of books about WW2 England and never ever get tired of it. If you do enough research to bring any historical setting to life, I don't really think it's cliche.

Mara · Nov 18, 2009

The American Civil War has probably inspired more literature than any other war, according to one of my professors. I don't know the statistics on it, but it sounds reasonable.

I do know that Civil War-related books are constantly being published, although I don't know the ratio of non-fiction to fiction.

job · Nov 18, 2009

You're putting your characters in a war zone for a reason.

Can you pin down what it is about the 'War Scenerio' that resonates with your story? If so, it may become more obvious to you which war you need.

Another, more practical question is -- which war is easiest for you to write about? Which one do you already know a lot about? Which one will be easiest to research?

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 18, 2009

I had a Very Famous Big-Deal Agent tell me that although he loved my writing, there was absolutely no way he could sell a vampire book, because vampires were OVER and nobody was EVER going to buy a vampire book again.

This was in 1998.

Write what you want to write, not what you think is "hot" in the market. Yeah, I don't want to write US Civil War alt-history because that's an overcrowded field, but if you have a fresh take on it, go for it.

Madison · Nov 18, 2009

I don't think the Civil War is overdone, personally, but write what you want and make it your own - then it won't be cliche.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 18, 2009

Trauntj said:
Then again, I haven't seen a historical fantasy placed in that time (as far as I know. if you know of one, please tell me)

Buy one. Better still, buy a dozen. They make excellent gifts.

Adelaide · Nov 18, 2009

The words "historical fantasy set in the Civil War era" sound very enticing to me.

Arkie · Nov 18, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Buy one. Better still, buy a dozen. They make excellent gifts.

Although, I am not a fantasy reader per se, I read this book and enjoyed it. It did bring back a bad memory or two, especially the part about Greenland. I worried for most of my 25 years in the Air Force that I was going to get an assignment to Thule AFB, but thankfully never did. And speaking of this book, it was evident that James' 14-year Navy career influenced several scenes, language and description. Something to keep in mind, when writing about the military, whether history or fantasy. There are a lot of military readers out there.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 18, 2009

Speaking of which: Lincoln's Sword.

Trauntj · Nov 18, 2009

IceCreamEmpress said:
I had a Very Famous Big-Deal Agent tell me that although he loved my writing, there was absolutely no way he could sell a vampire book, because vampires were OVER and nobody was EVER going to buy a vampire book again.

This was in 1998.

Write what you want to write, not what you think is "hot" in the market. Yeah, I don't want to write US Civil War alt-history because that's an overcrowded field, but if you have a fresh take on it, go for it.

note you said alt-history, not fantasy

you know what, I'll keep the setting. as you said, obviously Meyer has had success just a few years after you were rejected, so maybe getting it out there at the right time and to the right person would be one thing that would get it to sell.

job said:
You're putting your characters in a war zone for a reason.

Can you pin down what it is about the 'War Scenerio' that resonates with your story? If so, it may become more obvious to you which war you need.

Another, more practical question is -- which war is easiest for you to write about? Which one do you already know a lot about? Which one will be easiest to research?

very good questions, I wanted to pick a time and the civil war just sounded really amazing to me with its setting and people like "Stonewall" Jackson, Lincoln and others. I liked it because it provides a great dualism for external and internal conflict with several layers for my plot which would resonate throughout the entire story with the MC and his thoughts on the war directly reflect whats happening to him.

Adelaide said:
The words "historical fantasy set in the Civil War era" sound very enticing to me.

Thanks! I've had others tell me that it would be an interesting take on it, which makes me more motivated to write it

Trauntj · Nov 18, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Speaking of which: Lincoln's Sword.

I tried searching for details but couldn't find any. What is it about?

Albannach · Nov 18, 2009

I'd keep in mind that if you're going to put it in an actual historical setting, people can be fanatical about accuracy. (I should know. I am)

On the other hand, if you take the general idea and go with an "otherworld" setting (such as GRR Martin did with The Game of Thrones when he wanted to write about "kind of" the War of the Roses) you can do whatever you please. Even if you call it alternate history, if you make Stonewall Jackson a coward or Lincoln a traitor you will make people mad. So even for alternate history, we're talking research.

James D. Macdonald · Nov 18, 2009

Trauntj said:
I tried searching for details but couldn't find any. What is it about?

It's about 480 pages.

To be a bit more serious, it's a multiple time-line historical fantasy set during the American Civil War (with side expeditions back to 1793 and up to the Great War), featuring Abraham Lincoln, Cole Younger, and a couple of Irish immigrants in the Union army.

And a magic sword.

Here's an excerpt from the book: http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4056451&postcount=136

This is the cover painting.

Wordwrestler · Nov 18, 2009

Arkie said:
Although, I am not a fantasy reader per se, I read this book and enjoyed it. It did bring back a bad memory or two, especially the part about Greenland. I worried for most of my 25 years in the Air Force that I was going to get an assignment to Thule AFB, but thankfully never did. And speaking of this book, it was evident that James' 14-year Navy career influenced several scenes, language and description. Something to keep in mind, when writing about the military, whether history or fantasy. There are a lot of military readers out there.

This! I recently tried the first book in a series by a very popular author, whose MC was raised an army "brat." Guess what? So was I. So was my husband. The story was a page-turner, and I wouldn't have been able to put it down if his portrayal of army life weren't so inaccurate.

I kept telling myself he was done throwing those faulty details around, done bringing up implausible anecdotes from the MC's childhood, but the author just kept bringing it up, and every time he was wrong. I even woke my poor husband up and read him passages so that he could commiserate with me. I fantasized about the lists I could send the author of reasons why x, y, and z could never have happened. I took the book back to the library, and I won't be reading any more of that author's work.

A simple bit of research would have meant a great reading experience for me and more sales for the author.

I'm guessing a good percentage of people who pick up a novel about the Civil War will be very well-read about it.

Stijn Hommes · Nov 19, 2009

So what if the setting is cliched? We've all seen the haunted house, the mad scientist's laboratory or the evil overlord's lair. It is the story you tell within that setting that matters. If you think the war works as an analogy and the readers can relate, then just go for it.

Trauntj · Nov 19, 2009

Albannach said:
I'd keep in mind that if you're going to put it in an actual historical setting, people can be fanatical about accuracy. (I should know. I am)

On the other hand, if you take the general idea and go with an "otherworld" setting (such as GRR Martin did with The Game of Thrones when he wanted to write about "kind of" the War of the Roses) you can do whatever you please. Even if you call it alternate history, if you make Stonewall Jackson a coward or Lincoln a traitor you will make people mad. So even for alternate history, we're talking research.

I have no plights about accuracy, for their real life attributes will contribute heavily towards their influence in my story.

plus researching the war is half the fun of writing it, creating a story around the timeline that played out.

lucidzfl · Nov 19, 2009

I think that its a fine setting for anything. There are always interesting perspectives and characters to discover from almost any time in history.

In addition: Fantasy allows you to do some really cool "what ifs" with the plot.

Nothing wrong with it.

Kalyke · Nov 19, 2009

It really depends on the story. If it is a story that MUST be set in the civil war, then you need to do it. I think it is not a good idea to choose the setting randomly. There must be something about the story that crys out for the setting. I also think that a person writing about a setting needs to be a bit of an expert in it. I think people here have pointed out that whatever period you chose for a setting, there is always going to be a reader out there who knows more than you do.

Lady Ice · Nov 19, 2009

Depends on story of course. If the Civil War is just there to look pretty in the background, it might look cliche.

The other thing is that it makes your book very American. Most British people have no idea about the Civil War and it wouldn't be particularly resonant.

IceCreamEmpress · Nov 19, 2009

Trauntj said:
note you said alt-history, not fantasy

That was my point: I think the alt-history of the US Civil War is a pretty glutted market, but there are only a few fantasy takes on the US Civil War.

It's like the Napoleonic Wars: there are a zillion books about them, mostly Patrick O'Brian copycats, but only Naomi Novik's have awesome dragons.

Richard White · Nov 19, 2009

Of course, if you're wanting to do Civil War, it also depends on which theater of the war you're going to cover.

Lots of people are familiar with the Army of the Potomac going against the Army of Northern Virginia. But how about the Union vs. the Confederacy in New Mexico? The fact that there were actually more battles fought west of the Mississippi than there were east of it (just much smaller battles)? The fighting between the Texas Rangers vs. the various Indian tribes during the war while the majority of the male Texas population was off at war? The fighting around Ft. Donelson which probably influenced the fall of the western confederacy much more than losing Vicksburg did?

And don't forget the Hundley (the first "modern" submarine). What if they'd had a magical way to produce air for the submariners instead of having to resurface?

And so on.

There's a lot of territory (literally and figuratively) to cover in the Civil War if you leave Virginia for a bit.

job · Nov 19, 2009

Trauntj said:
the civil war just sounded really amazing to me with its setting and people like "Stonewall" Jackson, Lincoln and others. I liked it because it provides a great dualism for external and internal conflict with several layers for my plot which would resonate throughout the entire story with the MC and his thoughts on the war directly reflect whats happening to him.

Sounds to me like you've got your answer right there.

If it resonates with what you're writing ... just do it.

Jamesaritchie · Nov 19, 2009

Only if you write a cliched novel. Iron Mountain did pretty well, didn't it. Write a great story, and no one cares about teh setting. Write a same ol', same ol', and no setting will save you.

Civil War novel too cliche? (even if its historical fantasy?)

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