Tall, dark, handsome virgin, seeks date...

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

Made you look!

Well, this certainly doesn't describe me. I'm still tall enough to scrape my head in a standard size door, but I'm an extreme makeover and a bottle of hair color away from the rest.

Tall- obviously, I was referring to my tall tale which is nearing completion.
Dark- Any fantasy worth it's salt has to have a bit of darkness, and mine lacks none.
Handsome- sure, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but if you don't think your baby's good looking, there's not much chance anyone else will.

Ah-virgin- obviously, I'm in trouble if this is me after 25 years of marriage. Well, it is me - but only as an author. Un-agented for the moment.

Actually, although I will be seeking a hot date for the Best Sellers Ball, I know I'm not quite ready to choose a date yet. Book one of my beautiful epic fantasy needs some last minute touch-ups.

So, what is this post about? For the experienced, tell us how you found your first publishing promdate:

For those who want to discuss how they plan to seduce that attractive agent, what are your plans? Obviously, without a great story, you'll be a wallflower anyway. But given that you are just an undiscovered bell of the ball, what spin will you put on your story?

Me? Well, since this is my first go at it, and I'm kind of wanting to make a great impression, I think I'm going to seek a professional opinion. My re-write alone has been an extreme makeover. And although I'm kind of tempted to send it as is, and this may seem like overkill, but hey, I'm thinking ahead to movie deals, and video game tie-ins, so this honey has to be a stunner.

azbikergirl · Mar 15, 2005

Heh! I can't get past daydreaming about the cover art (what my bad boy will wear to the ball). Does the author have any input at all? What if he/she totally hates the cover art the publisher proposes?

James D. Macdonald · Mar 15, 2005

Bitching about the cover art is a time-honored authorial tradition.

(Go get a copy of The Unstrung Harp, or, Mr. Earbrass Writes a Novel to learn most of the seamiest truths about the writing life.)

Jamesaritchie · Mar 15, 2005

Courting an agent.

Nateskate said:
Made you look!

Well, this certainly doesn't describe me. I'm still tall enough to scrape my head in a standard size door, but I'm an extreme makeover and a bottle of hair color away from the rest.

Tall- obviously, I was referring to my tall tale which is nearing completion.
Dark- Any fantasy worth it's salt has to have a bit of darkness, and mine lacks none.
Handsome- sure, beauty's in the eye of the beholder, but if you don't think your baby's good looking, there's not much chance anyone else will.

Ah-virgin- obviously, I'm in trouble if this is me after 25 years of marriage. Well, it is me - but only as an author. Un-agented for the moment.

Actually, although I will be seeking a hot date for the Best Sellers Ball, I know I'm not quite ready to choose a date yet. Book one of my beautiful epic fantasy needs some last minute touch-ups.

So, what is this post about? For the experienced, tell us how you found your first publishing promdate:

For those who want to discuss how they plan to seduce that attractive agent, what are your plans? Obviously, without a great story, you'll be a wallflower anyway. But given that you are just an undiscovered bell of the ball, what spin will you put on your story?

Me? Well, since this is my first go at it, and I'm kind of wanting to make a great impression, I think I'm going to seek a professional opinion. My re-write alone has been an extreme makeover. And although I'm kind of tempted to send it as is, and this may seem like overkill, but hey, I'm thinking ahead to movie deals, and video game tie-ins, so this honey has to be a stunner.

I was young and virginal muself when I started looking for an agent who would take me to the ball.

I did a ton of research, and then, when it came down to actually asking an agent, I ran my finger down a list and picked an agent I'd never heard of because I liked her name. I sent her a few pages of a novel I hadn't yet written, and she called about ten minutes later and said she wanted it. I wrote it and sent it to her, and she sold it to a publisher within a few weeks.

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens.

MarkEsq · Mar 15, 2005

Grab and go...

I am currently courting one potential date and hoping she agrees to come to the ball. My wooing technique was along the lines of grab-and-run: I gathered a list of about fifty agents in New York, LA, and one in DC. Being none-too-optimistic, I thought I'd just do the easy ones first - that is, I first contacted those who accecpted queries by email, rather than ranking who I would like more and contacting them first. I sent out fifteen queries and to my great surprise two wrote back wanting to see partials. I sent 100 pages to the first one (who wanted them exclusively) and I heard back last week, they want to see the whole manuscript. I am delighted, hopeful, anxious... and also wondering why I was not a little more discriminating at the initial send-out-the-query stage!!

My view then, and pretty much now, is that beggars cannot be choosers and the unpublished author is pretty much a beggar. But the lesson for me is that I should have been more focused, had a tier system for my potential dates. Still, I grew up in England and went to all-boy boarding schools so I know very well that a date is a date!

zornhau · Mar 15, 2005

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens

One lemming drinking Bud on a tropical beach does not imply that lemmings have a viable vacation strategy... :tongue

maestrowork · Mar 15, 2005

I'm currently getting ready for the ball with my date, and really nervous. What if nobody comes?

Vipersniper · Mar 15, 2005

It would not be pretty.

:scared:

If that were posted at Longwood University some of those girls would keep you for weeks and it would not be pretty once they released you unless of course they set you free totally nude. Need directions? Haha.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 15, 2005

Lemmings

zornhau said:
One lemming drinking Bud on a tropical beach does not imply that lemmings have a viable vacation strategy...

Nope, but it means that one particular lemming got where he wanted to go.

Actually, I don't think strategy plays much of a part in getting to the ball. You get invited to the ball by, essentially, buying your way in. You learn to write a query letter that convinces an agent or editor that you just might be sitting on a gold mine. If you succeed in this, the agent or editor asks for a load of sample ore, which is your novel.

Agent or editor then assays the ore. If all they find is rock and iron pyrite, then no matter what your strategy was, they say, "Sorry, kid, I've decided to go to the ball with someone else."

If, on the other hand, the find what they believe to be a vein of gold running through the ore, they say, "Take my arm, kid. We're going dancing."

Easy to say, hard to do, but the only strategy I've ever seen that worked is just this. Learn to write a query letter that will convince an editor or agent to look at your novel, and then write a novel that an agent or editor thinks might be a gold mine. If you can do this, you're going to the ball. If you can't, you'll just have to stay home and watch it on TV.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I was young and virginal muself when I started looking for an agent who would take me to the ball.

I did a ton of research, and then, when it came down to actually asking an agent, I ran my finger down a list and picked an agent I'd never heard of because I liked her name. I sent her a few pages of a novel I hadn't yet written, and she called about ten minutes later and said she wanted it. I wrote it and sent it to her, and she sold it to a publisher within a few weeks.

It was weird, and it isn't supposed to happen that way. But I got to go to the ball, and that's what it's all about, however it happens.

Yes, I'm researching like crazy about agents at the moment. But first things first. On one level, I'm wondering if I'm over doing it by considering to have someone with more experience look at it, but on the other hand, I'd hate to have been "this close to nailing a deal". First impressions can be lasting.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

azbikergirl said:
Heh! I can't get past daydreaming about the cover art (what my bad boy will wear to the ball). Does the author have any input at all? What if he/she totally hates the cover art the publisher proposes?

Fantasy writers would especially have a concern. I've even approached a pro artist about my concepts, and maps to have something to send to the editor. It may seem trite to some, but honestly, the wrong cover can not only be a turn off, but it can be defining.

You may have a mental picture of your Wartogs, and they paint something completely different, either too warm and fuzzy, or not warm and fuzzy enough. Then again, they do have rather experienced cover artists who know what generally gets attention.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

MarkEsq said:
I am currently courting one potential date and hoping she agrees to come to the ball. My wooing technique was along the lines of grab-and-run: I gathered a list of about fifty agents in New York, LA, and one in DC. Being none-too-optimistic, I thought I'd just do the easy ones first - that is, I first contacted those who accecpted queries by email, rather than ranking who I would like more and contacting them first. I sent out fifteen queries and to my great surprise two wrote back wanting to see partials. I sent 100 pages to the first one (who wanted them exclusively) and I heard back last week, they want to see the whole manuscript. I am delighted, hopeful, anxious... and also wondering why I was not a little more discriminating at the initial send-out-the-query stage!!

My view then, and pretty much now, is that beggars cannot be choosers and the unpublished author is pretty much a beggar. But the lesson for me is that I should have been more focused, had a tier system for my potential dates. Still, I grew up in England and went to all-boy boarding schools so I know very well that a date is a date!

This may sound wrong, but I don't feel like a begger. I don't mean that to sound arrogant, but my hope is that this is an important work of art that will have a tremendous impact. It's not conventionaly, but sometimes I feel like I have one shot to hit a home run, and that's it. Maybe that's not true, but I'm not thinking about the next project and the next.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

Judy T. Lloyd said:
If that were posted at Longwood University some of those girls would keep you for weeks and it would not be pretty once they released you unless of course they set you free totally nude. Need directions? Haha.

Something like this almost happened my freshman year of college. I was in a room full of girls, and they said they were going to gang up on me and rip my clothes off. It's a complex story. A few of them were really cute, but the others just had this desperate (I've never seen or touched a man before) kind of drool. A few weeks before this, I had one of those "God if you get me out of this one...I'll...never...or at least try to never..." moments, and as strange as it sounds, that thought came to my head. After going through the devil on the left shoulder and angel on the right for about a minute, I knew it was now or never, and got out of the room quick.

I'm not even going to say how I got out of that room with my clothes on, but as you can imagine, another part of me wanted to stay and see what would have happen, since that was like one of my teen fantasy dreams unfolding. "They'll never believe me if I told them..."

SRHowen · Mar 15, 2005

I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

BradyH1861 · Mar 15, 2005

Tall dark handsome virgin

Hmmmm that sort of reminds me when I got married!

Well, the tall part anyway.

I was neither dark, nor handsome, nor a virgin.

I'm still not. :Thumbs:

Brady H.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

SRHowen said:
I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

Great advice. I've learned so much from you and others here.

My question at this point is do you go with the big New York boys, who have connections in Hollywood, and Europe, with the 400 clients and 100 books or, is there an advantage to opt for someone who has a smaller practice. My gut is telling me that you go with the long track record. But I don't know for sure.

cwfgal · Mar 15, 2005

Nateskate said:
My question at this point is do you go with the big New York boys, who have connections in Hollywood, and Europe, with the 400 clients and 100 books or, is there an advantage to opt for someone who has a smaller practice. My gut is telling me that you go with the long track record. But I don't know for sure.

You can try to go as high as you want but it isn't necessary to have a high-falutin New York agent, just an agent who has all the necessary connections. My first agent was a one-woman show and she operated from her home in Maryland. She was able to sell my book to a big New York City publisher, and had other agents she worked with for both movie and foreign rights. She got movie options on two of my books and sold foreign rights on all of them. In this day and age, with email, Fed Ex, faxes, and such, a New York location isn't necessary. My second agent had a New York address and he was pretty much useless.

Beth

SRHowen · Mar 15, 2005

Beth, what area of WI? Most my family lives in the Fox valley area.

Anyway--you want an agent that has a recent track record that reps the same sort of stuff you do--big agency or small--if they are making sales in your genre, does it matter?

As long as they had a good sales to client ratio and they had made sales I'd heard of and I knew they weren't scams I sent a query.

On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.

Shawn

James D. Macdonald · Mar 15, 2005

SRHowen said:
On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.

Sixty miles up the Long Island Expressway still counts as "NYC" for our purposes.

MarkEsq · Mar 15, 2005

While we're on the subject...

I hope it's ok to ask here, I tried in what I think is the right thread but got no responses - the agent looking at my manuscript is in DC, Literary and Creative Artists. They have a website and seem to be very legit but, other than that and P&E, I can't find out anything about them. Anyone familiar with them?

James D. Macdonald · Mar 15, 2005

Literary and Creative Artists of Washington DC has a track record of sales.

Vipersniper · Mar 15, 2005

I am glad that you escaped.

:Guitar:

I am glad that you escaped and the University does have library that has recognition in the state. The head librarian asked me to come there and speak to a group of highschool students about how I wrote my first book. That was interesting and I hope that I helped to encourage the youngsters and I think that I got just as much out of it as they did. But let me tell you there are some good up and coming authors that most of old foggies had better watch. There is also a law school nearby but this is a teaching University. Longwood University is close to Hampden- Sydney College and east of the University of Virginia.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

cwfgal said:
You can try to go as high as you want but it isn't necessary to have a high-falutin New York agent, just an agent who has all the necessary connections. My first agent was a one-woman show and she operated from her home in Maryland. She was able to sell my book to a big New York City publisher, and had other agents she worked with for both movie and foreign rights. She got movie options on two of my books and sold foreign rights on all of them. In this day and age, with email, Fed Ex, faxes, and such, a New York location isn't necessary. My second agent had a New York address and he was pretty much useless.

Beth

Oh, a part of me wants you to introduce her to a Tall Dark Handsome Virgin...another part of me wants her to find me on her own. I'm so complex.

Nateskate · Mar 15, 2005

SRHowen said:
Beth, what area of WI? Most my family lives in the Fox valley area.

Anyway--you want an agent that has a recent track record that reps the same sort of stuff you do--big agency or small--if they are making sales in your genre, does it matter?

As long as they had a good sales to client ratio and they had made sales I'd heard of and I knew they weren't scams I sent a query.

On the NYC address--well, many sales are made over "lunch" so while it may not matter, my preference was for NYC agents.

Shawn

Shawn, thank you so much for writing. Again, this is a question that I'm not sure there's an answer to. My understanding is that some agents can get you the "best" deals. Well, some may get you good deals. And I'm not knocking that at all. But there's all kinds of perks, connections to t.v/radio/book clubs. Yet, there is a feeling that you are so lucky to get any deal, that should be an afterthought.

And it reminds me of when I was in High School, and there was this absolute frantic need to get past being a virgin. Sorry, I don't really feel that way, but there was this pressure, and I never felt like, "Well, you just find someone who wants to...you know." I really felt like love was supposed to be a part of the whole thing. In this "I want an agent feeding pool, I feel this same sort of "Take what you can get or you'll be a virgin all of your life" type of immediacy. And for some reason, I'm not feeling desperate. Maybe someday I'll feel different, but I'm hoping to find someone who will be "that person", and I'm not going to wake up the next day and kick myself, realizing I coulda done better if I waited.

Jamesaritchie · Mar 15, 2005

Strategy

SRHowen said:
I agree with James R for the most part. But, I think you can and should have a strategy. Obviously you need to start with a query letter that will make them want to see more. Work at it until you cannot do any better. Then have a few beta readers look at it--preferably those who already have a date to the ball or who have an agent. Listen to them. Go back to the keyboard and work some more on the query.

Next, write that synop. They are hell to write at any time. But once you are holding that letter that says, Hey, I found your query enticing and would like to see a synop and 70 pages--then they become a nightmare after being sent to hell. Besides if you have it already done you can include a line in your query--I have a detailed synopsis and sample pages, or the complete manuscript ready to send at your request if interested. Shows them you know what they might want and have it ready.

Again have those who are already there take a look, rewrite as needed.

So you have the great book, you have the killer query, you have the detailed synop, you have the short and sweet synop-you are ready, set--but don’t go yet.

Research.

Research.

Look carefully into each agent you are interested in. Do they have a sales record--a recent sales record? Do you recognize the names and publishers of those that they list as clients? E-mail some of their clients--just to be sure they are clients. Do they represent authors who write in your genre or write things similar to what you write? And so on--member AAR?

Then get ten query letters ready to send out. Double check agent‘s name, spelling etc. Double check your contact info. Send.

Get the next ten ready to go. Set aside, start on next book.

When you get the first SASE back. Calmly walk into your house. Set on table and take top query from stack and go mail it. Prepare next one, add to bottom of stack.

Now open SASE. Rejection? OK. No big deal you have already sent the next letter. Asking for more material? Send it off.

Keep going until you get your "date."

Shawn

I agree with you on researching agents, but it's still all meant to get a good query to a good agent.

I'm not at all big on querying more than two or three agents at once, five at the most, however. If you're doing everything right, odds are good that several agents will say yes, which means you're going to have to say no to all but one. THis can be bad.

But mainly, if you're doing something wrong in the writing of a query letter, it's best to find out what it is before you go through too many agents.

As for New York City agents, well, you need an agent with a good sales record, and this usually means an east coast agent, even if they don't live right in New York City. I think it's important to have an agent who actually knows ediors, and who, if they don't live right in New York City, can and does get there on a regular basis.

Tall, dark, handsome virgin, seeks date...

Nateskate

azbikergirl

I really do look like this.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Jamesaritchie

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

zornhau

Swordsman

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Vipersniper

Jamesaritchie

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

BradyH1861

Hold Fast.

Nateskate

cwfgal

On the rocks

SRHowen

Erotica is not a four letter word!

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle

Vipersniper

Nateskate

Nateskate

Jamesaritchie