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Nateskate
12-21-2004, 06:14 PM
...or your own experiences into a fantasy?

Some of you are enjoying my real life experiences on the ADHD thread. And I have a question related to this. Have you ever used your own "real life" experiences as a template for your fantasy/fiction...etc.

I have. Around twenty years ago, I began an elaborate fantasy, that I never completed. And about a year ago, I dusted it off, and began to rewrite the story with some changes. It's still unfinished, and I may never do anything with it, but I thought you, "who have read my other ADHD thread, might find this amusing."

By, the way, I used "Nathan Skates" in the story. It's a joke I have,where when I need to kill someone off, I write myself (Pseudonym) into the story, and guess who goes? Freud would have a field day with this. Hears a sample. I hope you enjoy it.

“Donna, quit kicking the back of this seat before I stop the car and get out,” I shouted, adding the obligatory warning, “If I have to stop this car one more time, I assure you that you are not going to be happy!”

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The kids weren’t happy. Neither was I, nor my wife Barbara. Four hours of driving will test the metal of the most patient of drivers, but it will drive children with attention deficit disorder, and any parent within pinching, poking, biting, or even listening distance to utter distraction.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp I can’t tell you if I had to separate the kids fifty times, two hundred times, or more, because a person tends to lose count of such details during the season of misery, when life in prison, without parole, seems like a more preferable place to spend your hours.

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp No, I didn’t stuff the three of them in the trunk as I threatened, but I did seriously consider sedation, although my wife never thinks I’m being serious when I say this. And why not just knock them out for a few hours to get some peace? Less misery for us, and less misery for them, certainly a win/win situation that we could all live with. But until society begins to consider such actions as humane, I’d never do such a thing. But, oh, am I tempted!

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp Long rides can be enjoyable, but this was anything but enjoyable, and I could count the reasons why I should have never rolled out of bed. First, this was not some picnic destination. No saunas, theme parks, ocean waves, or sightseeing for us.
&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp No this was the obligatory family tour, visiting sisters, and mother in laws, and distant relatives that could drive the most pious man to drink.

My wife and I argued often over whose family was more insane. I think that mine won hands down, but indeed, every time we visited her relatives, I wanted to re-tally the votes. Being that her relatives were closer, and that being a woman, she needed to maintain those bonds much more than I ever felt the necessity, there were birthdays, holidays, and family picnics, all invitations into the house of pain.

Sure, my family had absolutely nothing to do with each other, and I sometimes thought that I’d have been much better off as an orphan, at least I sometimes told myself this when my relatives got on my nerves. I like to say that the Skates put the ‘Dys’ in function. But Barb’s family doesn’t exactly get along with each other. First comes the obligatory insincere hellos, then once the formalities are done with, the cat claws are properly inserted, and round after round of the most intense backbiting and backstabbing begins, with gossip, slander, and all the intrigue of the best spy novels and whodunits ever written.

The view along Interstate 81 was scenic, but what fool in their right mind wants to ride through the farmlands of Lancaster in the swelling heat. Well, it’s a rather beautiful place, but not when they are manuring the fields. I choke and gag every time I pass by before the next planting season.

Who in the name of civilization thought up the idea that spreading manure along side of the roadways was a good idea? Being asthmatic, this bovine pollution is nothing short of attempted murder as far as I’m concerned. In fact, I told Barbara, that if I ever fell over dead at the wheel, to make sure that she sue every cow farmer east of the Mississippi, cause they’re to blame. My autopsy will read, “Death by Cow Poop.”
Then again, to be fair, it could have been equestrian manure that causes the final blow that does me in. They won’t know for sure until after the pathology report comes back.

And to be truthful, I could have blamed every in-law, out-law, crapping cow, every farmer, and every hyperactive child in the northeast for raising my irritability level. But these side issues only served to feed into the fact that things were not going very well at work. And of course, if it weren’t for work pressures, you’d probably never hear my rambles about family matters at all, because what I am telling you has absolutely nothing to do with relatives, blood, or otherwise.

Now mind you, my job with the U.S government is very restrictive. Just getting into the front door requires every type of biological scanner, swipe card, and code number known to man. Double Zero Seven had nothing on our secret agency. We have more checkpoints than Maxwell Smart ever faced. Now, if I could just borrow the “Cone of Silence” and drop it over my kids in the backseat, it would make these trips so much better.”

&nbsp &nbsp &nbsp &nbsp The detective flipped another page in Skate’s diary, looking for clues. It was tedious to sift through diaries, journals and the likes, but sometimes names, places and events solved more unsolved murders than any forensic scientist could dream of. Skate’s death was indeed a mystery. His place of employment doesn’t exist, and if they did, they denied ever having anyone by the name, “Nathan Skates”. He read on:

“They tell me that I am some kind of genius, but certainly not the kind that can ever remember his codes from week to week. That, and I can’t spell to save my life for some reason. But in the area of mathematics and physics and such, things just seem to make sense to me. And I must admit that I have an above average imagination, which I think is the primary reason that I got into this mess in the first place.

I could tell you about my insane family, or in this case, my wife’s wonderful relatives. But as much as you might enjoy that particular sitcom, and all of the skeletons in our family’s closets, I’m sure that you will find the story of my job so much more interesting, and in fact, more to the point of why I wrote this, and why you are now reading this.

In 1976, I graduated from M.I.T with honors, and then a few years later, I continued my doctoral studies in bioengineering, with most of my studies being completed at Lehigh University.

All the same, I didn’t want to go into teaching, and assumed that I’d just work for a pharmaceutical company, or more likely, I’d just make widgets, or design the better diaper, and retire to a serene life of playing chess, and taking apart and fixing broken gadgets. Now, that might not appeal to most, but it appealed to me at the time.

But I’m not great at following maps, and perhaps that’s why the map to my life is so full of unexpected turns, and twists, and why I ended up in a career that I never quite expected, or even knew existed, working on classified experiments, and involved in perhaps the riskiest program that the government ever thought up outside of their top secret weapon’s division. Yet, we think of ourselves as somewhat of a weapon’s system, even more than-well- an espionage division, in that we do at times work hand in hand with weapons and the military, although they never get to see how we provide them the information they seek.

drgnlvrljh
12-21-2004, 10:23 PM
Actually, my current WIP has some bearing on actual events in my life. Of course, those events stretch credibility to most people. It has more to do with certain abilities and beliefs. If you're of an open mind, PM me, and I'll give you the link to -my- story.

Nateskate
12-21-2004, 11:26 PM
Perhaps the second greatest tool an author has, other than the imagination, is the memory, and the ability to capture people and places and "what they felt like".

And I know countless authors employ one variation of this technique or another, and that I am not alone.

I think it a bit of vanity to always write yourself into a story, and I don't employ that tool often. It's one thing to have "Hitchcock" place himself into his story, as a point of amusement, and another to feel that the world revolves around you.

However, I think the best moments in any story are ones in which you picture every character as being "real", and having a history. They came from some place, and they will going some place. Their lives just happened to crisscross in the pages of your work, as if you were a reporter on the scene.

Writing Again
12-23-2004, 12:15 AM
A landscape is not the place it represents, a portrait is not the person, nor is a sculpture the item it depicts.

Neither are our characters, the worlds they inhabit, nor the situations they exist in.

They are, one and all, our creations. If we do it well we will make creations that the reader feels is more real than their friends, family, and neighbors. Where we get the pieces that we use as clay, and polish with word clothes is of little importance.

Mike Meyers can portray both Austin Powers and Dr. Evil in an exaggerated James Bond world. Neither one is he and the world is one we have learned to recognize just as we have learned to recognize a cartoon such as Garfield as depicting a cat.

Nateskate
12-24-2004, 03:50 AM
Still, even if we are part fiction, and I'm not saying this is an ego thing by any means, but I think some people like to incorporate themselves into a story, but obviously it is only a little bit, or they'd look like an arrogant snot, and no one would want to read their stories-autobiographies. That is unless your story is autobiographical, which is why I specified a fantasy.

I'll bet others have done it, but maybe it isn't something they like to admit.

mr mistook
12-24-2004, 05:59 AM
I think some people like to incorporate themselves into a story, but obviously it is only a little bit, or they'd look like an arrogant snot, and no one would want to read their stories-autobiographies. That is unless your story is autobiographical, which is why I specified a fantasy.


I've never heard of somebody writing a fantasy where they put themselves as the hero and actually kept their own name in the story. I'll admit, that would be strange, especially if it were told from an omnicient point of view. In that case the author would litterally be refering to him/herself in the third person, which I agree is the height of arrogance.

Example: "The Lost City - by Pat Melody... Chapter 1: Pat Melody sat in his bedroom wondering, 'Why am I so handsome? It's a curse really.'"

No, I don't think that would play well. But who does that?

But on the other hand, there's plenty of authors who have a main character, if not the protagonist, who is based very much on themselves.

Everyone from Fiztgerald to Ian Flemming, in every genre have written a book if not a series where the protagonist was heavily based on themselves. Usually, nobody even realizes it until they find it out years later from a biographer.

reph
12-24-2004, 07:46 AM
In that case the author would litterally be refering to him/herself in the third person, which I agree is the height of arrogance.

Example: "The Lost City - by Pat Melody... Chapter 1: Pat Melody sat in his bedroom wondering, 'Why am I so handsome? It's a curse really.'"


You could do it in the first person just as easily.

Example: "The Lost City - by Pat Melody... Chapter 1: I sat in my bedroom wondering, 'Why am I so handsome? It's a curse really. I'm the handsomest dude in the whole durned Melody family. It's a shame that little Patrick, Jr., didn't inherit my looks. Took after his mom, poor kid.'

James D Macdonald
12-24-2004, 08:09 AM
Warday (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0030707315/ref=nosim/madhousemanor) by Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka involves the adventures (after a global thermonuclear war) of a couple of guys named Whitley Strieber and James Kunetka.

It's a pretty good book, too.

Nateskate
12-24-2004, 08:30 AM
When I asked the question, I never meant in the sense of being "The protagonist", unless of course there was something autobiographical in the story.

As a metaphor or allegory, I can imagine that people might incorporate themselves into a journey, that was born out of an experience they wanted to journal in a way to make it less personal, and more applicable to other people's lives.

In that respect, I can see a serious work of fiction being a cathartic expression.

The second way I see this, is again a humorous thing, such as having Legolas shoot Peter Jackson in ROTK. I'm pretty positive that he's the extra on the ship.

I've done a number of stories which were essentially office, or friend entertainment, incorporating them into the story. These are generally in the form of a serial. Well, in one such story, they said, "Why don't you write yourself into the story?"

Well, I needed someone to kill off, and I figured none of them wanted to be killed off, so I created a character for that purpose. It was somewhat of a private joke, in that they wouldn't have realized it was me straightway, but if I pointed it out, they would have gotten it. It was a lampooning of sorts.

mr mistook
12-24-2004, 12:49 PM
I can understand the author's urge to lampoon his/her own arrogance. There is a character in my WIP based on myself, but he's not the hero by any stretch.

Mind you he's "based" on me... a caricature of myself in my early 20's. He's not the hero, but he's a kind of unwitting catalyst for much of the action. He's a goof, who knows not what he's tampering with, and in the grand scheme of the novel, he is dwarfed by the personalities and stories of the other characters, many of whom are totally fictional.

A few of the characters are based on other real people, and some of the events are loosely biographical, but by and large, the book is more fiction than non, and all of the meat - the fantasy - has nothing to do with anybody's life.

I hope this doesn't make me an arrogant snot, but then again, who in the world, who reads my manuscript, will have a clue about my inspirations?

Nateskate
12-25-2004, 03:16 AM
I'd like to think that people who have had interesting lives can somehow incorporate their experiences, and share them. So, I don't think incorporating an allegorical/metaphorical self into a story is wrong.

In one story that I did, I had used my own experiences as a template for the lead character. I didn't have to do that, but I think that in this instance, it added a richness to the story.

And you'll see that with cops, who write fictional cop stories, or a firefighter who writes a fictional firefighter story, and obviously military people do the same.

But some people don't feel that they have as much to draw from, when often it's the filter through which you view those experiences that make the difference.

drgnlvrljh
12-25-2004, 07:26 AM
Well, Grisham is a lawyer, Crichton is a Doctor, and Asimov is a scientist. So that makes sense ;)

Nateskate
12-25-2004, 07:39 AM
Good examples.

mr mistook
12-25-2004, 01:12 PM
I'd like to think that people who have had interesting lives can somehow incorporate their experiences, and share them. So, I don't think incorporating an allegorical/metaphorical self into a story is wrong.

I've always had a wild imagination... I was the kid they used to warn "Don't let your imagination run away with you." But in my early 20's, when I was smoking a lot of... *ahem* well anyway let's just say in my early 20's my imagination was out of control.

Some of the best stories from that time in my life, never happened at all. I had vivid delusions that worked themselves into the fabric of my otherwise boring life. Years later, I struggled to repress those fantasies, in order to re-establish my grip on reality. But now that I'm safe and sane, I'm not afraid to look back on that experience, and it strikes me that those delusions are as much my memories as anything that "really" took place.

I tried to write the story of those days in the first person, but it just... sounded like another boring case history of a recovered schizophrenic. I decided it was better to write it as the fantasy that it was, from an omnicient perspective, and create a character to represent me as I saw myself at that time - just a poor, innocent schmoe caught up in a web of extraordinary circumstances.

So in a very veiled way, my WIP is actually a biography - told in the only way it can ever truly make sense. Incidentally, this is the reason why this novel simply refuses to adhere to the rules of any established genre. I think I could go on to write "normal" novels someday, but this first is a story that for me "must" be told. I can't move on with my life until I get it out of my system.

maestrowork
12-25-2004, 06:15 PM
I had good imagination (maybe not wild, per se) and certainly I've had an interesting life so far, but it never occurred to me that I should have written them down. My creativity tends to go many directions, sometimes it's music, sometimes it's art, sometimes it's performance arts... I only rediscovered my love for writing about six or seven years ago, when I considered writing a novel. By then, my life experiences had taken over my imagination somewhat. But now I'm slowly rediscovering it.

When I was a boy I used to dream and daydream about magic and multiple universes and "what if" stuff. I dreamed of having super powers and doing things only my imagination could afford. Then I became a realist of sort and let real life take over, and I spread myself all over the place as far as creativity was concerned. Even my first novel is mainstream/real life. My second one started out as real life, but slowly fantasy elements began to creep in.

I actually like that.

Nateskate
12-25-2004, 09:14 PM
(or girl, depending on the gender) Rescueing a princess, or being rescued, acquiring the means of gaining super powers to fight the evil in the world.

Sure, it is not what we experienced, but all of those things we dreamed of experiencing. Perhaps in some way, when pen strikes the paper, the protagonist is who we wished we were, more than who we actually were, but nonetheless, a deep part of us.

maestrowork
12-26-2004, 12:35 AM
Well, Grisham is a lawyer, Crichton is a Doctor, and Asimov is a scientist. So that makes sense

We do tend to write what we know... some people would ask if Jake Brigance in A Time to Kill is an alter ego of Grisham... or the writer protagonists in King's novels are some carbon copy of him (or part of him)... in my first novel, the protagonist is a pretty well-to-do, globetrotting consultant, and guess what I did for a living... but apart from that, my character doesn't really resemble me...

Writing Again
12-27-2004, 07:28 AM
I always thought Hemingway had the best of it. He had enough money to go where he wanted to go, do what he wanted to do, and then be able to earn more money by writing about the things he had done and the things he had seen.

Not necessarily about himself, but about the people and places. Wouldn't it be fun to go run with the bulls? Wouldn't it be fun to write a story with that as the center of it?

Nateskate
12-27-2004, 07:36 AM
I never saw Tolkien as a character in his stories, but I see so much of his life in LOTR. Much of it was likely subconscious, but I believe a great deal was also thought out.

He was an orphan. His wife was an orphan, that he longed to save. Let me ask you this; "How many orphan savior-figures are in LOTR?"

Aragorn:

Frodo:

Eowyn:

Tolkien was moved from place to place. All of these characters are taken away from their homes to roam.

His care taker disproved of his relationship with the woman he eventually marries. Elrond-also a spiritual figure, disapproves of Aragorn's relationship with Arwen.

You can go on and on. People who draw from the deep well of experience can often touch others profoundly.

drgnlvrljh
12-27-2004, 07:43 AM
Something to ponder:

In the end, aren't all the stories that we write a part of us? We put our hearts and souls into them. We cry with our characters, and laugh, and plot revenge. So, in the end, we really -are- putting ourselves into our stories.

Nateskate
12-27-2004, 07:55 AM
I think the best stories are those in which we connect emotionally.

But there is a Lennon and a McCartney approach to story telling. Lennon always drew from personal experience. McCartney was somewhat of a playwright, and would create somewhat nonsensical songs, although not all were like that.

Yet they were both very good.

There is a balance, in the sense that Lennon had to much bitterness at points, and needed McCartney to balance him, and McCartney could get too whimsical and needed Lennon to keep him honest. "How can you sleep nights..."

Nateskate
12-27-2004, 09:14 AM
"I always thought Hemingway had the best of it. He had enough money to go where he wanted to go, do what he wanted to do, and then be able to earn more money by writing about the things he had done and the things he had seen.

Not necessarily about himself, but about the people and places. Wouldn't it be fun to go run with the bulls? Wouldn't it be fun to write a story with that as the center of it?"


I think that writing is a combination of who we are and who we aren't. There are things he has seen because of his good fortune, but there are things that I (perhaps we) have seen because of a lesser fortune.

I am certain that I have been to places where he has never gone, and he has the disadvantage in that he was able to write about his experiences, but never about my own.

So, it is a matter of perspective. The gift of a writer is in taking an experiences that was your own, and making it relevant to the reader. Perhaps I shall never write about running with bulls, but I can write about running from gangs. I think that I can make my experiences sound equally as interesting if not moreso, whether or not that happens. Yet, I do not aspire to be Hemingway in any way. Nor would he have aspired to be me, I am certain.