Question for Members

[brokenfingers]

Hello everyone,

I’m assuming that everyone here reads sf/fantasy books – both for pleasure and research. I don’t know about anyone else but I’m constantly on the prowl for good sf/fantasy books. (To be honest – I lean more towards fantasy)

Anyways, I was thinking we start a thread of good books in either genre that are either classics or well-written or different or stand out in some way or you would recommend and why. From either a reader’s standpoint or a writer’s.


Books that are a pleasure to read, are innovative in some way, successfully go beyond or enhance the genre cliches, norms etc.

Books that are good examples of writing skill, plot, characterization or storytelling in the genre.


It’d be good if everyone who gives input also explains why they recommended such and such a book, so everyone knows what and why and can decide accordingly whether they want to check it out or not.

Not generic terms like: I really liked it - c’mon we’re writers here and are supposed to be able to express ourselves, our ideas and our feelings.

Tell us what about this book made you post about it.

I’d also like a thread where we could discuss certain books that have been read. From a writer’s and a reader’s viewpoint. Dissect and examine the inner workings of successful books in the genre. See what makes ‘em tick and why or why not we each felt it worked or didn’t.

SPOILER posts would be identified so as not to ruin the reading pleasure of any who have not yet read the mentioned books.

What do you think? Is this something other’s here would be interested in? I’d like to hear the opinions from others who frequent this board and the mods also.

[katiemac]

Sounds good, broken. I would contribute right away, but I actually haven't read any sci/fi or fantasy in ages. I'll be interested in seeing what other people have to say -- I love a good reason to hit up the bookstore.

[preyer]

i'd mentioned parke godwyn's 'beowulf' here recently, which i thought had brilliant characterization and had at point a writing style that stunned me. he's one of my favourite authors... as long as he's retelling an old story based on king arthur or robin hood. i'd begun an original SF novel of his once and couldn't read it, it was so awful. despite that one disappointment, i recommend his retellings highly. a quick caveat: his arthur and robin hood stories have no spellcasters throwing spells about, no prophecies being fulfilled, none of that, rather breaking the mythical aspects down and telling them removed of their supernatural properties. that is, excalibur isn't a magick sword.

strange as it may sound, i highly recommend mark twain's short stories. well-written, humourous, and actually pretty good stuff to turn slightly around and use for your own story. twain did use quite a few of the same words from story to story and they're all in first person, so if those aren't issues with the reader, i think you can take a lot away from them. indeed, put most of his stories in a SF setting and someone might think you're a genius. :) there are fantasy aspects to a lot of his works, obviously, but a few are outright fantasies.

[zizban]

Here's some works I've read recently that are excellent:

Slaughter House Five: Can be taken on many levels from sci-fi to social commentary.
Planet of the Apes: NOT like the movies that it inspired. Brilliantly constructed sci-fi social satire.

Steven Brust: Anything by him is good. Try the Vlad Taltos books and the Khraaven Romances.

This Town Will Never Let Us Go, by Lawrence Miles: Combination fantasy/sci-fi/horror.

[katiebug57]

This sounds very interesting. I, too, am much more a fantasy genre reader than sci fi. I just don't connect to the science aspect of sci fi; I much more love the magic involved, just the whole way fantasy works!

That being said, I save my favorite fantasy books (so I don't have to rebuy them at a later time; a whole huge two boxes of them was accidentally discarded, and I cried for days . . . not really, but you understand!). I'm always on the prowl for authors I've somehow managed to miss over the years.

Fantasy, lately? Ah, I guess the most recent I've read would have to be the latest edition in the latest series by Terry Brooks. It's hard to say, because I've been working like mad on my own MG urgan fantasy. BTW, if anyone would go to the children's submission forum, I have posted my first chapter of my Guardian of the Grail book, and could sure use some feedback.

I've been disappointed to find only one response to date; perhaps I should have posted it on the fantasy link instead.

Back to Brooks; I've read all of his stuff. I didn't really care for the Knight of the Word series; I found it dull and not "compelling" (don't we love that word?). I persevered because I just knew they had to get better the further in I got, but they didn't.

I have a hard time standing back from a work that I really enjoy and looking at it for "style" issues, voice, that sort of thing. To be honest, if it is well written, no matter what my good intentions, I get sucked right into the character's lives, the plot, and I find myself 40 or 50 pages into the book (which I've read several times before), and haven't glanced at how the author deals with conflict, dialogue, or any of that!

The best thing I've found to do is to stack some of my favorites, in different styles, on my desk, and page through them, looking specifically for treatment of different areas of writing, rather than rereading the whole thing.

Guess I'm meandering. Will be interested to see what anyone else has to say. Hope everyone has a great day!

Katiebug

[Andrew Jameson]

I'd recommend my current mostest favoritest author, Martha Wells (http://www.marthawells.com/). She constructs interesting, imaginitive worlds, her characters have deep and detailed backgrounds that influence the plot of the book, and she starts deeply, deeply in medias res. For example, the book I just finished, The Wizard Hunters (you can read the first five chapters here (http://www.marthawells.com/ships.htm) on her site) starts with the protagonist trying to figure out how to go about killing herself, for no explained reason, in the middle of what appears to be something like the WWII London Blitz, only perpetrated by some sort of magical Zeppelins. It's all very confusing, but in a "I really want to figure out what's going on" way, rather than a "this is annoyingly impenetrable" way.

I really liked it, but then I dig interesting and complex worlds populated by interesting and complex people acting in interesting and complex ways. I imagine that some readers might find it too complex for casual reading, and might interpret the different facets of the characters, revealed as the story progresses, as being something like the author's deus ex machina. Still, even if you don't like Wells's stuff as much as I do, I think it does stand out in style and structure from other things I've read.

[triceretops]

Hands down it would have to be Poul Anderson for sci-fi or fantasy. Great humor and irony in his characters, he has a style that is unique and different from any other writer I know. Don't know if it's the Dane in him or what. His insights about how people think and their motivations make him an award winner for me.

Triceratops

[fallenangelwriter]

Martha wells is very good.


I would also recommend anything by L.E Modesitt. he writes both fantasy and science-fiction, although the distinction between the two is pretty small. while his books cna be annoyingly slow-paced at times, the ideas and characters are fascinating. i would definitely recommend his SF book "Gravity Dreams", and his fantasy series "the spellsong cycle".

[TJ-Wizard]

My favourite fantasy books are Ethshar series by Lawrence Watt-Evans, with their logical and explained magic and characters who are common people from their world facing unusual circumstances. The background of these stories is very detailed, and described as something so obvious, that the World appears more realistic.

My favourite novel from this series is 'With A Single Spell', and I find pleasure in reading it again and again for many years. I recommend all the books from this series with all my heart.

[MadScientistMatt]

Some of my favorites from the realm of fantasy:

C.S. Freidan's Coldfire Trilogy. Dark, disturbing stories about good and evil, with a lot of brooding commentary on human nature.
Tolkein's The Lord of the Rings. Pretty much started the modern fantasy genre.
David Eddings's first three serieses. Very character driven epic fantasy.

[Zolah]

I absolutely LOVE Martha Wells.

I also recommend Lois McMaster Bujold very highly, both her SF and fantasy series. They stand out because of her exquisite characterisation and the ability to create eye-ball kick after eye-ball kick in her description. She's one of those writers who addresses really tough issues (honour, religion, love, death) with a lightness of touch that gives them a deep impact. You don't put an LMB book down and forget about it - it will stay with you. My personal favourites are 'The Curse of Chalion' and 'Paladin of Souls'.

I've just read 'War for the Oaks' by Emma Bull, and that's a great book. Apparently it was the first ever Urban Fantasy, and it single handedly spawned the genre. I can well believe it. It's by turns lyrical and brutal, and the treatment of music had me on a week long binge of all my old CDs after I finished.

For anyone who hasn't read him, Terry Pratchett is a wonderful writer. His later works especially just seem to get better and better. Someone who can make you laugh and cry at the same time. He is a master of understated emotion and of thigh-slapping humour. Best to start with 'Guards! Guards!' and work your way through the City Watch series for a start.

Garth Nix is one of the most imaginative writers I've come across in recent years. His magical systems are wonderfully realised and original, and I love the quiet courageousness of his characters and the richly textured fabric of his worlds. His best work so far is certainly the Old Kingdom Trilogy (Sabriel, Lirael and Abhorsen), but anyone who embarks on Lirael MUST have Abhorsen handy, or the cliff-hanger might cause you to spontaneously combust...

Diana Wynne Jones is pretty famous in fantasy writing for her book 'The Tough Guide to Fantasy Land', of which most good writers own a copy. But her fiction is amazing too, moving from the 8-12 age range through YA up to adult. I'd sample 'Deep Secret', 'Archer's Goon', 'A Tale of Time City' and 'Howl's Moving Castle' to experience some really beautifully written fantasy and SF, which is also hilariously funny.

'Sunshine' by Robin McKinley is a blaster of a read, an example of a fantasy world so real that it seems to suck you in. McKinley's prose is so dense that at times you feel like you're drowning, but it's wonderful for all that. Some of her YA books are very entertaining too.

[Sarita]

BF- Great idea! Who are you reading and loving?

I have a few:

Jasper Fforde- I swear that this man writes for writers. His Thursday Next series is SO jam packed full of literary references, I find myself re-reading to find new ones. I'm currently reading Well of Lost Plots (http://www.thursdaynext.com/index2.html). His books are set in Swindon, England in an alternate universe where Dodo Birds never became extinct, the Crimean War still rages and the book world has it's own police force called the Literatecs. He is uproariously funny and subtly funny at the same time. His stuff is light hearted but at times cliché, such as touching on deeper issues of good vs evil. (Evil is named Acheron Hades, hehe)

Sean Russell-Very interesting fantasy series called The Initiate Brother (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0886774667/qid=1114027849/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/102-1925344-1240115?v=glance&s=books). In an interview I read, the author said he combined early Chinese and Japanese cultures to develop the culture of Wa. The philosophical and religious tones of these 2 novels really grabbed me.

Oh and my fellow State Collegian, Jim Morrow-Towing Jehovah, Only Begotten Daughter. He has an amazing way of weaving theology into anything. His Bible stories for adults are great. And my best friend designed his website (http://www.sff.net/people/Jim.Morrow/)! They're redoing it as we speak, that link back there is the old site. He's currently working on publishing The Last Witch Finder in English. It's been released in French. I got a signed French copy for X-mas last year and it was amazing, even trying to read it in arcane French.

Bunches of others. The Thomas Covenant Series, by Stephen Donaldson, made me throw books across the room. Anything that can elicit that kind of reaction out of me has to be good. I love Tolkein, anything and everything, but especially Of Beren and Luthien from the Simarilion. Such rich history.

~Sara

[victoriastrauss]

Sean Russell-Very interesting fantasy series called The Initiate Brother (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0886774667/qid=1114027849/sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/102-1925344-1240115?v=glance&s=books). Really liked the characters and worldbuilding in this one. I thought the first novel was spellbinding, but was disappointed in the second, which seemed very rushed at the finish, almost as if Russell had just gotten sick of the concept.

There's the same problem, interestingly, in his latest series, The Swans War.

- Victoria

[Sarita]

Really liked the characters and worldbuilding in this one. I thought the first novel was spellbinding, but was disappointed in the second, which seemed very rushed at the finish, almost as if Russell had just gotten sick of the concept.

There's the same problem, interestingly, in his latest series, The Swans War.

- Victoria
Victoria-Yes, I agree. The first novel was amazing. And while I liked the second, it did lack the magic of the first. It almost made me wonder if he was up against a tight deadline? Something about book 2 screamed Sho-Gun to me, maybe the strategic war plans. I loved the characters, especially Sho-yun (was that his name?). Such quiet grace and boy, could he please a woman. I haven't read The Swans War. I did read Moontide and Magic Rise; I didn't like it nearly as much as Initiate Brother. The characters seemed weak.

[Vomaxx]

What I find extremely interesting about this thread is that nobody has mentioned the three best-selling fantasy authors: Martin, Goodkind, and Jordan!

I won't mention them either. :)

---------------------
I will put in votes for Elizabeth Moon's "Deed of Paksennarion" and David Lindsay's "Voyage to Arcturus." The former has a great hero(ine) and a believable quest, and the latter is a very stern philosophy fascinatingly packaged in fantasy guise.

Tolkien's short story "Farmer Giles of Ham" has always been a favorite. It shows what the Master can do when he's not striving for an "epic" style: light-hearted and extremely funny. (Not that I don't venerate LOTR).

[brokenfingers]

Parke Godwyn, eh? I’ll have to check it out. Thanks preyer.

Zizban, I think I rifled through a Stephen Brust book while browsing in a book store once. For some reason, it didn’t click with me. I’ve put him on my list to check out again.

Katiebug, for some reason I can’t get into Terry Brooks. I think it’s because after I read Lord of the Rings when I was a wee lad and still thought girls were icky, I went on a fantasy binge and then read Sword of Shannara, and while I still enjoyed it – I felt it was just a Tolkien clone.

When I saw recently that he was hitting the bestseller’s list with his latest tales from the same world, I bought the 1st trilogy to refresh myself and catch up and see how he was doing it. Unfortunately, I haven’t read it yet because I just can’t get into worlds that are in any way Tolkienish (elves, dwarves, hobbits etc) unless it’s Tolkien. The whole elf, dwarf thing has been so overdone that I automatically reject most books that contain them any more.

Martha Wells sounds interesting. I’ll have to check her out.

Poul Anderson is another widely acclaimed author who just never clicked with me. I don’t know why, really. I’ve never read any of his books but I think it’s seeing a centaur on the cover that might’ve done it for me. Silly, I know – but that just goes to show the importance of a cover for attracting the average reader. Now that my tastes and understanding of writing have changed I might give him another try to see how he does it.

I checked out L.E. Modesitt years ago. I really enjoyed the 1st book I read, but the secong killed it for me. It was just too boring. He forgot about the story and harped on the Order/Chaos thing too much for me.

I read Eddings 1st series way back in my pre-teen years when I was suffering from post-Tolkien withdrawal. I enjoyed it then but can’t get into his stuff now.


Sara - Wow, that is funny!

I read Sean Russell’s Initiate Brother series too and liked it also. It was different – and that’s what I like. I even read it again when I was low on fodder. I also read his Moontide and Magic Rise series.

The really funny thing is that I had the same exact impression of his latest series. I loved the 1st book, but was hugely disappointed with the second. It just dragged and felt like he was stretching it out so he could make it three books instead of two.

Thomas Covenant is another one of my faves! I liked the second trilogy better than the 1st. Have you read his latest? Just as good!

Also have you read his Mirror of Her Dreams trilogy? (or it might be Mordants Need) Excellent!! If you get a chance check it out! A more traditional setting but a little more mature.

As for Jordan – It started out wonderfully but….. Sheesh, I haven’t even read the last one.

Goodkind just kind of petered out on me. I lost interest after the third one. It just started getting too soap-operaish to me. He saves the world but then in the next book – Lo and Behold! – he has to do it again! With another plot twist! Ad Infinitum.

Now, Martin… I love his books!! He is currently my favorite fantasy author. I think they are very well written. You can tell he wrote screenplays for many years because there is always gripping action, drama, conflict and the plot is seamless!! I’ve read his books at least four times each and every time I am amazed at how he has things tie in and weave together that I never even noticed on the other reads.

I would highly recommend GRR Martin to any reader of fantasy.

Another I like is Robin Hobb. The Assassin Trilogy. The Liveship Traders Trilogy. And the latest is The Golden Fool Trilogy (although I didn’t enjoy the latest one so much)

OK, I’ve ranted enough for one night.

Who’s next!

[whitehound]

Oh dear - I promised somebody I would read a Goodkind book (Wizard's First Rule) but after months of struggle I had to admit defeat, because I had still only managed about four chapters and the thought of reading any more of it made me almost cry with boredom.

Yes to Zonah on Pratchett and Diana Wyne Jones. Although Terry Pratchett is touted as a humorous writer he is so much more than that - at his best he is also both creepy and profound, with wonderfully good characterization.

For example, try this from "The Fifth Elephant" - Commander Vimes of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch is talking to his dwarf forensic pathologist about the customs of the hard-line traditionalist dwarves in the quasi-Eastern European country Uberwald (Discworld dwarves are unisex so the term "knockerman" would include women as well).

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*

'…Tell me… those robes some of the dwarfs were wearing. I know they wear them on the surface so they're not polluted by the nasty sunlight, but why wear them down there?'

'It's traditional, sir. Er, they were worn by the… well, it's what you'd call the knockermen, sir.'

'What did they do?'

'Well, you know about firedamp? It's a gas you get in mines sometimes. It explodes.'

Vimes saw the images in his mind as Cheery explained…

The miners would clear the area, if they were lucky. And the knockerman would go in wearing layer after layer of chain-mail and leather, carrying his sack of wicker globes stuffed with rags and oil. And his long pole. And his slingshot.

Down in the mines, all alone, he'd hear the knockers. Agi Hammerthief and all the other things that made noises, deep under the earth. There could be no light, because light would mean sudden, roaring death. The knockerman would feel his way through the utter dark, far below the surface.

There was a type of cricket that lives in the mines. It chirruped loudly in the presence of firedamp. The knockerman would have one in a box, tied to his hat.

When it sang, a knockerman who was either very confident or extremely suicidal would step back, light the torch on the end of his pole and thrust it ahead of him. The more careful knockerman would step back rather more, and slingshot a ball of burning rags into the unseen death. Either way, he'd trust in his thick leather clothes to protect him from the worst of the blast.

Initially the dangerous trade did not run in families, because who'd marry a knockerman? They were dead dwarfs walking. But sometimes a young dwarf would ask to become one; his family would be proud, wave him goodbye, and then speak of him as if he was dead, because that made it easier.

Sometimes, though, knockermen came back. And the ones that survived went on to survive again, because surviving is a matter of practice. And sometimes they would talk a little of what they heard, all alone in the deep mines … the tap-tapping of dead dwarfs trying to get back into the world, the distant laughter of Agi Hammerthief, the heartbeat of the turtle that carried the world.

Knockermen became kings.

Vimes, listening with his mouth open, wondered why the hell it was that dwarfs believed they had no religion and no priests. Being a dwarf _was_ a religion. People went into the dark for the good of the clan, and heard things, and were changed, and came back to tell…

And then fifty years ago, a dwarf tinkering in Ankh-Morpork had found that if you put a simple fine mesh over your lantern flame it'd burn blue in the presence of the gas but wouldn't explode. It was a discovery of immense value to the good of dwarf-kind and, as so often happens with such discoveries, almost immediately led to a war.

'And afterwards there were two kinds of dwarf,' said Cheery sadly. 'There's the Copperheads, who all use the lamp and the patent gas exploder, and the Schmaltzburgers, who stick to the old ways. Of course we're all _dwarfs_,' she said, 'but relations are rather… strained.'

'I bet they are.'

'Oh, no, all dwarfs recognize the need for the Low King, it's just that…'

'… they don’t quite see why knockermen are still so powerful?'

'It's all very sad,' said Cheery. 'Did I tell you my brother Snorey went off to be a knockerman?'

'I don't think so.'

'He died in an explosion somewhere under Borogravia. But he was doing what he wanted to do.' After a moment she added, conscientiously, 'Well, up to the moment when the blast hit him. After that, I don't think so.'

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~ *~*~*~*~*~*

IMO the best Diana Wynne Jones novels are Fire and Hemlock - in which both you and the heroine spend much of the book unsure whether the fantasy element is real or just in her imagination - Hexwood, which is about time and memory and freedom and cruelty and is sad and complex and full of memorable characters; and The Homeward Bounders (in which human history turns out to be a rôle-playing game played out by sinister energy beings).

The best fantasy book I have ever read - quite possibly, the best book of any genre I have ever read - is an obscure book called The Blue Tree by Mary Fairclough. If you have to, sell your house to get hold of this book. I think it fell through the literary cracks because, being fantasy in the 50s, it got classed as a children's book and it really isn't. It's set against an unusual background - rural Persia at the time of the Crusades - and is the sort of book in which almost every line and scene is quotable and burns into the mind, without seeming at all contrived. I first read it 15 or 20 years ago and it's infested my head ever since.

Other favourites - of course The Last Unicorn by Peter S Beagle, which is another story in which everything is memorable and mythic without seeming at all artificial, and full of vivid characters and humour. This must have been one of the first mainstream fantasy novels which was fluid and fluent and domestic in scale rather than epic and formal, and is still one of the best.

Almost anything by 1950s children's fantasy author Nicholas Stuart Gray - creepy and witty by turns. The Seventh Swan is probably the best but they are nearly all good. It was Gray who was responsible for my favourite quote about matters psychic, viz.: "Them as believes nothing is seldom disappointed. But they do miss a lot of action."

The Face in the Frost by John Bellairs. Although the story revolves around a very obvious plot-coupon and is resolved by a plot-voucher, the setting is evocative, the horrors are highly original and the idea of making the main characters two garrulous old men is refreshing: that kind of comfortable, long-term male friendship is an area of human experience which is often overlooked these days. And the writing-style is delicate and transparent, like a watercolour (whereas so much fantasy reads like an overworked oil-painting).

A 1960s children's animal fantasy called An Edge of the Forest by Agnes Smith. This faded into obscurity because it was printed by a tatty little low-grade publisher but it really is a very well-written story and again, quite creepy. The heroine is a young black lamb whose mother has been killed by a dog, and because she had been told that death lived in the forest she asks every animal she meets there "Are you death?" and the question shames a young leopardess, likewise orphaned and black, out of eating her and into trying to protect her (this is not as farfetched as it sounds btw - there actually was a recent case of a lioness adopting an antelope calf). One of the things that most sticks in my mind is the snake whose blessing to all and sundry was "May your path be smooth and may you never disturb me." IMO it's on a level with Watership Down (another classic animal fantasy of course), though intentionally with slightly more of a "fairy-tale" feel.

Anything by Barbra Hambly, especially Magicians of Night, the second Sun-Cross book. Magic which feels real and hard-edged and not at all flowery or forsoothy; in this case combined with a lot of good historical research about the Occult Bureau of the SS.

Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn quadrilogy (The Dragonbone Chair; The Stone of Farewell; To Green Angel Tower parts I and II). Williams takes what seems to be Tolkein's universe a thousand years later and on another continent, and in many respects does it better than Tolkein. In particular he is brilliant at conveying characters who are thoroughly alien and yet vividly individual within their alienness - whereas Tolkein's elves were all fairly uniform, generically elvish rather than individual. [But I found William's Otherland series, and Tailchaser's Song, rather boring.]

In SF - CJ Cherryth's five-book Chanur series. Political thrillers set in a vividly realized culture and technology, told through the eyes of a felinoid alien, they are perhaps the most physically evocative books I've ever read. They make you feel as if you are really living in that world and story, to the point where the first time I read them I realized I felt peculiar not to have fur. [It wasn't just me - I loaned them to a friend and she started growling at people.] Again the aliens are at once alien and individual, and the technology feels used and lived-in and as if it might actually work (or fail to work, in some cases).

And lastly, The Final Reflection by John Ford. This is a Star Trek genre novel about Klingon culture, and TV-derived genre novels tend to be pish: but this one intersects aired Trek only peripherally (being set about 50 years before Kirk et al) and deserves to be read simply as an interesting and original portrayal of an alien culture seen from the inside. It's full of subtle cultural touches which are not made explicit. For example Ford's Klingons are warlike and paranoid and regard humans as weak and trusting: yet the Klingon culture is so hung up on the idea of dividing the universe into what they see as warrior cultures (strong, good) and slave cultures (weak, bad) that they are actually quite naive in some ways. There's a little grey jelly-fishy race in it called the Will-All, which is short for "We are the people who shall control all possible realities," a name which would freak out most humans on principle: but because the Will-All are soft and grey and individually harmless, and just disintegrate and die if you try to torture them, the Klingons dismiss them as a slave race and beneath contempt. Klingon ships routinely capture the much more primitive Will-All ships and escort them home for research, and they assume that the fact that only about half these escort parties make it back to base is just coincidence. Reading between the lines it is clear that the Will-All are trawling for Klingons, setting up primitive ships as bait to catch much more advanced ones and then flogging Klingon technology and military secrets to the Klingons' enemies: but you have to work this out for yourself, because it's told from the Klingon viewpoint and *they* still haven't worked it out by the end of the book!

[clara bow]

SF:
Frederik Pohl's Gateway. Outstanding characterization and it was one of the few SF tales that had so much suspense and mystery that I was actually scared while reading it (in a good way). It was also very poignant. The rest of the series is pretty decent. Someone needs to snap up the rights and make it into a film.

Stephen R. Donaldson's The Gap series. It's smart and snappy and sexy. While it falters somewhat toward the end, it's still worth the read for the (imho) brilliant character arcs.

Fantasy:
Anything by George R.R. Martin. I just read two of the Ice & Fire series and had no idea the genre had gotten so deliciously adult. Groovy.

Anyone who likes 70's old-school-plucky-heroine/damsel in distress Japanese manga should check out Bride of Deimos. It's available in English in many comic book stores, but I think you can get it for cheap online.

[VMcNeill]

Glad somebody mentioned George RR Martin. He is by far and away my favorite fantasy author. Some of his old books were reprinted last fall if anyone is interested in reading those. I've just read "Fevre Dream" which was an excellent vampire book, although it had some really nasty scenes in it.

R Scott Bakker with his "Prince of Nothing" is also great. People who liked Martin's work will probably enjoy this series. By this I mean that its a very dark setting, with lots of violence in it. The only problem I have with it is that the book tries to explain the character's philosophies which can drad down the story.

China Mieville -Perdido Street Station and The Scar. Somewhat wordy and difficult to keep track of all the different races, but very imginative.
Also caused some controversy with an essay he wrote, I'll try to see if I can find it and post it on another thread.

[arkady]

Almost anything by Jack Vance.

[victoriastrauss]

R Scott Bakker with his "Prince of Nothing" is also great. People who liked Martin's work will probably enjoy this series.I'm so glad to see someone recommend this series. It's terrific--not an easy read, by any means, but really well-written and conceived. And smart. Bakker is highly intelligent, and it shows.

Ricardo Pinto's "Stone Dance of the Chameleon" series is another fave of mine. Again, not easy books, but absolutely dazzling world building and, especially in the second, compelling character-based plotting.

- Victoria

[glutton]

I know it's an old thread but I gotta say:

David Gemmell's Drenai series

Elizabeth Moon's Paksennarion trilogy

Ed Greenwood's The Band of Four series

David Drake's King of the Isles series

Troy Denning's Cormyr trilogy (yes, DnD :))

R.A. Salvatore's Demonwars series

And of course, pretty much anything Conan. Also liked Steven Burst's Khavren romances a lot. I guess it's obvious what my tastes in fantasy are from that list. :) Anything you guys can recommend based on it?

[Perks]

The Absolute Write Book Club (http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=116)might suit your needs. There is a sticky at the beginning of the thread that links the books discussions alphbetically. I'd not be adverse to including a genre disticntion preceding the title if the person to launch the discussion will provide me with it.

Hop on in and start a thread. But, do expect spoilers. No sense in hobbling the discussions from the outset. I think I said in that thread - If you don't want to know whodunnit, dunna peek.

[TMA-1]

-2001 and 2010 by Arthur C Clarke. Some fascinating ideas in these two first novels of the four Odyssey novels.
-Rendezvous With Rama, Rama II, Garden of Rama and Rama Revealed by Clarke. Four stories about a huge spaceship entering the solar system, and the astronauts exploring it.
-Contact by Carl Sagan. Well-written story about a first contact scenario. I read it a long time ago, and I've read it many times since then. The science is good, the story fascinating.
-Manifold: Time by Stephen Baxter. Packed with strange, fascinating and big ideas and concepts. At times it can go over the top, but that doesn't take away the good from the novel.

[Popeyesays]

Hands down it would have to be Poul Anderson for sci-fi or fantasy. Great humor and irony in his characters, he has a style that is unique and different from any other writer I know. Don't know if it's the Dane in him or what. His insights about how people think and their motivations make him an award winner for me.

Triceratops

Three Hearts, Three Lions for starters, as a fantasy work it is almost untouchable for quality. It ws written in the late 1940's.

Any of the Flandry stories is tip-top science fiction.

Regards,
Scott

[Shweta]

Fun thread! I could write a book just on this :)

Three authors I'm surprised not to see yet: Lord Dunsany, Ursula LeGuin, and Patricia McKillip.

They are all very much stylists; Dunsany's writing is lyrical, vivid, and gently satirical (I love The Charwoman's Shadow, in which it took me about 40 pages to realize he was poking fun at his characters).

LeGuin is something of a minimalist; every word counts, and she's pruned away everything that could be. It makes me think of Japanese painting. For fantasy buffs, I'd really recommend at least the first three Earthsea books, and for SF buffs, The Left Hand of Darkness is a good place to start.

McKillip's writing is embroidery to LeGuin's brush-and-ink. Her writing is lavish, and I find reading her to be very much like vivid dreaming. It's almost hallucinatory. Images from her books do make it into my dreams. Her Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy is a great place to start, though it's quite different from her most recent work, of which I'd recommend Song for the Basilisk or In the Forests of Serre most strongly.

People have said that The lord of the Rings, the Earthsea trilogy, and the Riddlemaster trilogy go together as a set. They're all very different, but I agree; they're all spectacular examples of the field of epic fantasy.

As a last note, I'd strongly recommend all the Scribblies, not just Emma Bull and Steve Brust. They were a writer's group in Minneapolis; members include Emma Bull, Steve Brust (by the way, I'd point everyone at his The Sun, the Moon, and the Stars) and Patricia Wrede; less well-known (but great) members include Will Shetterly and Pam Dean, and ones I haven't read are Kara Dalkey and Nathan Bucklin.

If people are interested I'm happy to recommend books by each of these, but I think this post is long enough :)

[Shweta]

Though, I should say more than just style. Even though we are writers.

Edward John Moreton Drax Plunkett, Lord Dunsany: Firstly, how can you not just adore that name? Second, he's one of the founders of the field, and (I think) influenced Tolkien. The Charwoman's Shadow is about a boy called Ramon Alonzo Matthew-Mark-Luke-John (another great name) who is apprenticed to a master of the Black Arts. It goes from there, and is great fun. Do bear in mind that (a) the book predates a number of cliches, and (b) he's being satirical. It's easy to miss this, and misjudge the book accordingly.

Le Guin: A Wizard of Earthsea is the first book ever (I think) that asked "So okay, what are powerful wizards like when they are kids?"

It's the first ever wizards'-school book, I think. And it's not at all about a cheery little british school; the wizards' school is mysterious and freaky, and it is convincingly magical, and Bad Things really do happen, and they are character-driven, and the resolution at the end involves a twist I really loved.

I don't remember as much about books 2 and 3, because I read them all in one go and the last two were read well past my bedtime. And I keep meaning to reread the trilogy and never get past book 1, because new books keep grabbing my attention.

The Left Hand of Darkness is about a diplomat on a wintry planet in which people don't have a particular gender. They're hermaphroditic neuters, asexual for 3 weeks out of 4, and either male or female (depending on the situation) in the fourth week. The diplomat is trying to bring these people into aninterplanetary allliance, and (at least at first) failing to understand what's going on, at all. It's a challenging book; getting into the different mindsets is certainly work. B ut well worth it.

McKillip: The Riddlemaster series starts out endearing and gets dark and mysterious. I can't really talk about it without spoilers, sadly. But it is epic fantasy about riddles. And magic, and evil shapechangers, and an ally named Deth.

Song for the Basilisk has a protagonist who is a musician at the edge of the world, so badly hurt by childhood trauma that he cannot remember his early life at all. But he cannot become a bard until he can face this pain and deal with it. One of the things I love about this is that it's not about a 17-year-old of mysterious parentage. The protagonist is in his forties, and has an adult son.

In the Forests of Serre starts with a curse. You will have a very bad day. And when you leave your father's palace at the end of it, you will not find your way back to it until you find me. The cursed man is a prince, a broken man whose beloved wife infant son child died. Now he's heading home from a nasty battle, and cannot imagine things getting worse -- but they will.
This one's got a very strong fairy tale feel to it, complete with a Baba Yaga - type witch. But it's much more vivid and complex than your basic fairy tale.

There. I think that avoids major spoilers.

[MattW]

For Epic Fantasy, I've seen everyone (good and bad) except for Steven Erikson Malazan Book of the Fallen. Large in the scale of Martin, but with more magic, fantastic powers, and deep layers of history to the world. The military aspect is heavily emphasized, but the drama and suspense goes beyond the battles.

[RTH]

Everyone HAS to go out and read something by Dan Simmons. I love the way he weaves great poets into his work -- potentially a great source of lameosity, but he makes the fabric interesting and complex...

His Hyperion series has all the mythos, mystery, and intrigue of the Dune series without getting progressively drugged-out, weird, and pointless as you go on. Plus, the first book reads kind of like a sci-fi Canterbury Tales, which is just a tremendous idea.

And when I first picked up ILIUM I thought that having the Iliad happen on Mars would either fall out really stupid or really great -- definitely the latter. Just like Hyperion, complex and literary with great characters, background and setting, and techno-wizardry. Haven't read the sequel yet (waiting for the paperback, since I'm a student with low fundage), but definitely will.

[Richard White]

Just a few off the top of my head I don't recall being mentioned above:

Series:

Glen Cook's "The Black Company" series

Glen Cook's "Garrett, P.I." series

Robert Asprin's "Another Fine Myth" series

Katherine Kurtz's "Deryni" series

Robert Asprin, Lynn Abbey, et al, "Thieves' World" series

Singlets:

Steven Boyet "Ariel"

Gordon Dickson and Poul Anderson "Earthman's Burden"

Gordon Dickson's "The Way of the Pilgrim"

Roger Zelazny's "Lord of Light"

Peter Beagle's "The Last Unicorn"

[HConn]

I recommend James D. Macdonald's and Victoria Strauss' novels. Both contribute to this board and are terrific writers. Go buy their books.

Are there any other forum regulars here with books you can rec?

[SeanDSchaffer]

Fantasy:
Andre Norton and Mercedes Lackey: The Halfblood Chronicles
Piers Anthony: the Xanth series
Gordon R. Dickson: The Dragon Knight
C.S. Lewis: The Chronicles of Narnia
J.R.R. Tolkein: The Hobbit; The Silmarillion; Farmer Giles of Ham (short story)

SF:
A.E. van Vogt: Slan; Voyage of the Space Beagle; The World of Null A (Written, I believe, in the 1940's.)
Anne McCaffrey: The Dragonriders of Pern

[Yeshanu]

Glad somebody finally mentioned Narnia and Pern.

Xanth was fine for the first few books, then the puns got old. I much prefer Anthony's Adept series.

Love Lawrence Watt-Evans, especially With a Single Spell.

Are we recommending science fiction, too? If so, check out Calculating God, by Robert J. Sawyer.

If you want over-the-top funny fantasy, try out Chicks in Chainmail (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0671876821/102-7613993-2660135?v=glance&n=283155). Really great stuff.

[Pthom]

Are we recommending science fiction, too?Sure, either science fiction or fantasy.

And since this is heading fast toward three pages, does anyone want to volunteer to compile the list for a sticky post?

[slobbit]

Really liked the characters and worldbuilding in this one. I thought the first novel was spellbinding, but was disappointed in the second, which seemed very rushed at the finish, almost as if Russell had just gotten sick of the concept.
I haven't read the second one (still looking for a copy), but had a difficult time with how he worked with the setting. Maybe because alternate Japan is my setting, I was too sensitive to the mix of cultures. And calling the whole conglomeration "Wa" only confused things, because that's the ancient Japanese name for Japan. Russell used Japanese or modified Japanese far too often where an English word would work fine. "Cha" for example. Why not just use "tea"?

Having said that, I am still looking for the sequel. Good characters will do that.

[BardSkye]

I picked up Parke Godwyn's "Robin and the King," loved it, but haven't been able to find "Sherwood." When I asked at my favourite store they said it wasn't available just now.

One book I would recommend is Connie Willis' "The Doomsday Book." It's technically a science fiction as the premise is time travel but half the book is set in medieval England, which most of the fantasy readers would likely find interesting. I usually find jumping between times somewhat disconcerting but Willis manages to keep the reader enthralled as she follows the time traveler's sojourn in medieval England being parallelled (sp? My dictionary says yes) by an epidemic in her birth time.

She did much the same sort of thing for the following book, but it didn't work a second time. I lost interest about 20 pages in and can't even remember the title now.

[waylander]

I picked up Parke Godwyn's "Robin and the King," loved it, but haven't been able to find "Sherwood." When I asked at my favourite store they said it wasn't available just now.

One book I would recommend is Connie Willis' "The Doomsday Book." It's technically a science fiction as the premise is time travel but half the book is set in medieval England, which most of the fantasy readers would likely find interesting. I usually find jumping between times somewhat disconcerting but Willis manages to keep the reader enthralled as she follows the time traveler's sojourn in medieval England being parallelled (sp? My dictionary says yes) by an epidemic in her birth time.

She did much the same sort of thing for the following book, but it didn't work a second time. I lost interest about 20 pages in and can't even remember the title now.

The medieval England stuff is good in this book, but the parts set in contemporary/near future England are poor with a lot of errors in the settings and dialogue. All she needed to do was run the manuscript by someone who lives here to get a lot of it right.

[Diana Hignutt]

Here are a couple of books I would recommend:

C.S Lewis, That Hideous Strength (darker than his other work, still a dash preachy, but I think he tries here to illustrate his essay, The Abolotion of Man, which everyone should read.

Richard Adams, Watership Down

I'll defintely agree with Stephen R. Donaldson's The Mirror of Her Dreams, and I did love his Thomas Covenant series as well.

And, on the more science fictiony side:

Orson Scott Card, Ender's Game, and I liked Speaker of the Dead too...

Well that's what I'm thinking of this morning...

[kaza_kingsley]

This is a great idea! I can just print this list out and there will be my holiday presents in a nice package for my family to find for me!!

I'd like to add the Bartimaeus Trilogy by Jonathan Stroud. Very cool stuff.

Can I add my own series? If it's okay, I will. The people who read it are digging it - getting great fan mail and responses!
The first is Erec Rex: The Dragon's Eye and the second is Erec Rex: The Monsters of Otherness. (Both by Kaza Kingsley.)

Thanks!!
Kaza Kingsley
Author of the Erec Rex series
erecrex.com

[ajkjd01]

Okay two, working on three pages into a great fantasy/sci fi book thread, and no one has mentioned this year's Quill award winner in that genre? Wow.

Patrick Rothfuss. The Name of the Wind. Buy it. Read it. Love it.

I accidentally found his book on amazon, stumbled onto his blog (which is awesome for up and coming writers btw) and laughed out loud. I kinda dithered around a bit as to whether or not to buy the book. I've had real trouble getting into epic fantasy, because I think sometimes worldbuilding can get in the way of the story, so I wasn't keen on trying it. I walked past it several times in the bookstores, and finally picked it up.

It sat on my bedside table for a couple of days. And then one night I started reading it.

I'm a fast reader as a rule. If a story has a fast pace, I can finish it fairly quickly. I read the latest Harry Potter book in a day and a half, and only took that long because I had to go to work. And sleep.

I savored every single word of this book. I couldn't make myself go fast. I didn't want it to end. When you also take into consideration that I was reading this during a time in which I was editing my own novel, and was getting frustrated with every book I read (because I wanted to edit them as well), his was a book that I forgot about editing and the story took over.

I actually emailed the author through his website when I finished it, and he answered quickly and gratefully. I was thrilled to see he'd won the quill award, and very sad when he didn't win book of the year.

If you (or anyone you know...remember that the holidays are coming quickly) read and enjoy fantasy....it's a must read.

[Shweta]

Rothfuss and Lynn Flewelling are two of the authors I really need to start reading, I've been told. And people seem to talk about them both in the same breath.

Name of the Wind looks very cool. I'm looking forward to getting it.

Another person I only just started reading is Susan Palwick. I'm halfway through a collection of her short stories, "The Fate of Mice", which includes (at current count) three of the most kickass short stories I've ever read.

[JPSpideyCJ]

I read books that have ancient history settings, wizards, goblins, dragons etc. but original plots too. I can't find a lot, but here are some I love:

- The Silmarillion= Fantastic history to Tolkien's world, reccommended.
- The Hobbit= My all time favourite Fantasy book.
- The Lord of the Rings= A little long, and some parts bored me, but still good if you haven't already seen the movies.
- A Wizard of Earthsea= Well written, descriptive and a wonderful story.
- Harry Potter Books 1 to 3= I like the others, but to be honest I never found books 4, 6 and 7 to be as good.
- Shannara Books= Good, and an original plot for the most parts.
-Chronicles of Narnia= I enjoyed them, but book 2 was definetly the best, and I liked 7 too, that's the one with the end of Narnia stuff in it.

[J. R. Tomlin]

Elizabeth Moon's Paksennarion trilogy





Absolutely. I always thought the first one should have won the Nebula it was nominated for.

As far as recent work, I have been recommending Jackqueline Carey's two volume THE SUNDERING - Banewrecker and Godslayer. I'm not a fan of her Kushiel's Dart but these two just stunned me they are so good.

[MarkR]

Princess and the Goblin by George MacDonald

I found myself with tears in my eyes while reading the last two-thirds of this book. The symbols and images are well done.

[Warriors Trilogy]

Hello everyone. I am new to the writing world and a complete noob to the publishing industry. I have written the first book of my three part series and am currently looking for a good publisher to publish the book. I need help on finding a fiction novel publisher. If anyone could give me even a little push towards a company, I would greaty appreciate it. Thank you all for your time its much appreciated =)

[Cyia]

Hello everyone. I am new to the writing world and a complete noob to the publishing industry. I have written the first book of my three part series and am currently looking for a good publisher to publish the book. I need help on finding a fiction novel publisher. If anyone could give me even a little push towards a company, I would greaty appreciate it. Thank you all for your time its much appreciated =)


I left you a longer response in another thread, but I'll give you a short one here.

You want an agent. Agents will get you through the door at publishers because most publishers won't look at things from writers without an agent.

Do NOT call it a "fiction novel". There's no such genre. Take a look in the Share Your Work forum (password: vista) and read through some pointers on query letters. This is what you have to write to send to prospective agents.