First Chapter Starts as a dream

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

Hi All,

An agent just sent me an email stating that she liked the first chapter of my ms, which is a dream, as in sleeping. However, when she realized that is was a dream, she felt that it was a waste of time. FYI: It is a very short chapter, and it gives the reason for the premise.

What's your thoughts on starting your work with a dream?

joyce · Jan 5, 2008

I asked this very same question months ago and got boos from just about everyone. My first novel started with a dream. The dream was really more like a premonition giving details to the MC she would need later. Hearing everyone's opinions of what agents thought about dreams, I tried to change it up and let everyone know she was dreaming before they read the actual dream. I think the problem is people get confused thinking it's real and not a dream as they read it, and it a great place to add backstory and useless details. I never had the agents boo that part of the novel, I was just told my novel was too controversial. Personally, dream sequences don't bother me at all when I read them. Good luck.

Moon Daughter · Jan 5, 2008

I don't see a huge problem with starting as a dream, so long as it moves the story forward and is relevant.

Will Lavender · Jan 5, 2008

I wouldn't do it. Saw someone say once (Louis Menand?) that because there are no rules in dreams, he skips them.

I don't skip them when I'm reading a novel, but they aren't nearly as interesting as other things that might happen to open a book. I'd rather see the MC sitting down at a table and having a conversation with someone.

scarletpeaches · Jan 5, 2008

Moon Daughter said:
I don't see a huge problem with starting as a dream, so long as it moves the story forward and is relevant.

How can it move the story forward if there's no story to move, yet, in the very first chapter?

Linda Adams · Jan 5, 2008

I think starting with a dream may make it harder for you to get past the crucial first three chapters with the agent. It gives them a reason to put down the book instead of reading further (which is what the agent you mentioned did). Dreams are one of those things, like backstory, that get overused by beginning writers, so they see a lot of it.

Thrillride · Jan 5, 2008

I have asked this before and most everyone gave a thumb's down.

~Thrill

heyjude · Jan 5, 2008

No dreams, please!

Emily Winslow · Jan 5, 2008

Okay, so you have a dream first thing.

Either it's a boring dream, in which case your beginning is boring, or it's an interesting dream, in which case your reader is going to feel cheated when your character wakes up! How frustrating for a reader to get immersed in a conflict that turns out not to be real. How "bait and switch".

I think Joyce had a good idea with letting on that it's a dream before it begins; that avoids the feeling of being cheated. But I still wouldn't do it at the beginning. If dreams will significantly affect your character, give them to him/her after you've established the actual conflict. Then we'll be happilly riding your real story, and will be in a position to appreciate the subtleties and resonance your dreams will add.

Emily Winslow · Jan 5, 2008

PS--I wanted to add that one of my fave TV shows, Medium, often begins with a dream. But, it's not really "beginning". Most of the audience are watching each episode as chapters of the series as a whole. We're already in the middle, so to speak. And, also, even newcomers will know the main plot--she's a medium. It's, y'know, in the title ;-) So, though the episodes individually begin with dreams, I argue it's not the same as a novel beginning with a dream. Especially a first novel, or first published novel.

JoNightshade · Jan 5, 2008

I also give thumbs-down. It's perceived to be a cheat by the reader. Think about how you would feel if you read an entire novel, invested yourself in the characters and plot, and when you got to the end the conclusion was, "And then she woke up! It was all a dream!"

This is the same thing on a smaller scale. I suggest looking at what you're trying to accomplish with this dream, and finding some other way to convey the same point. For example:

1) Is the MC dreaming about something in the past that you think the reader needs to know? If so, this is probably your way of info-dumping. This info needs to be spread around through the story.

2) Is this showing us something about the psychological state of the MC? You could definitely convey this in a real-world scenario rather than a dream.

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

Emily Winslow said:
I think Joyce had a good idea with letting on that it's a dream before it begins; that avoids the feeling of being cheated. But I still wouldn't do it at the beginning. If dreams will significantly affect your character, give them to him/her after you've established the actual conflict. Then we'll be happilly riding your real story, and will be in a position to appreciate the subtleties and resonance your dreams will add.

First, let me thank you all for your responses. They really help.

Emily, Joyce:

I like your recommendations. I want to keep the dream there because it's been critiqued with rave reviews. The agent said she really liked it, until she realized...

Would you start it out with:
MC went to bed, weary and tired, tossed and turned, blah blah and then start the dream. I think that lets everyone know that she is dreaming, right?

Or is there another way to capture it?

Again, thanks for your help.

slcboston · Jan 5, 2008

Emily Winslow said:
PS--I wanted to add that one of my fave TV shows, Medium, often begins with a dream. .... So, though the episodes individually begin with dreams, I argue it's not the same as a novel beginning with a dream. Especially a first novel, or first published novel.

Also, as mentioned, the current episodes are like on-going chapters, and the "dreams" have become part of the set-up for each episode. However, and this relates to your problem - the pilot episode did NOT start with a dream.

I have seen too many "dreams" used as a trite set-up to have something play out, and then the writer/director change their mind and take it back. I stopped watching "Oz" on HBO when they did this with one of my favorite characters. Nothing irks me more than to invest the emotional interest into a scene only to find out it's NOT really happening.

The only exception to this - unless you're doing something phenomenal - is when the dreams themselves are integral to the story, as in "Medium." But even then, I want to know it is a dream. With the start of each episode, viewers for the most part KNOW it's a dream going in, and usually the dreams are clear and obvious (with an occasional exception for the needs of the story).

I would suggest making your dream Chapter 2, if it's integral to the development of the story. But give your readers a chance to identify what's going on, and be on firm ground, before you shift the terrain.

HeronW · Jan 5, 2008

Unless the dream foreshadows by virtue of being a premonition then it's just as awkward as the 'I woke up because it was just a dream' ending.

Maybe use the dream as a flashback in a later chapter to connect to the relevant scene?

Linda Adams · Jan 5, 2008

honeycomb said:
Would you start it out with:
MC went to bed, weary and tired, tossed and turned, blah blah and then start the dream. I think that lets everyone know that she is dreaming, right?

It's likely to be a weak opening because not much is going on, since the character is sleeping. You'll have about ten seconds to hook the agent into reading further, and saying the character went to bed isn't all that exciting.

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

Linda Adams said:
It's likely to be a weak opening because not much is going on, since the character is sleeping. You'll have about ten seconds to hook the agent into reading further, and saying the character went to bed isn't all that exciting.

Linda,

Thanks. I understand that part. I'm just asking what they meant by letting readers know its a dream. The part about going to bed, was an example. I have another idea of how to start it.

Thanks for the input.

Stormhawk · Jan 5, 2008

In a lot of versions of my WIP, it began with a dream/flashback - it was an important set up. Then, for a few versions I removed it entirely, but I really missed it.

Now, it's not a dream, just a short chapter. No dream, no cheat, doesn't make it a weak or trick beginning (not that trickery was the intention).

ChaosTitan · Jan 5, 2008

honeycomb said:
I want to keep the dream there because it's been critiqued with rave reviews. The agent said she really liked it, until she realized...

Great writing is not a good enough reason to keep the dream. It must be integral to the story, period. Make every scene, every chapter in your book defend its existence.

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

scarletpeaches said:
How can it move the story forward if there's no story to move, yet, in the very first chapter?

Dear Scarletpeaches,

As an aside. I just went on your blog, and I love it. I find that a lot of author's blogs aren't personal, and it kinda gives me the they're not real, they're just robotic creators of people, feel about them (if that makes sense).

Anyway, interesting reading.

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

ChaosTitan said:
Make every scene, every chapter in your book defend its existence.

ChaosTitan;

I believe that one line is worth $1M bucks. You've just sold me. May I use it as a tag? It'll be my inspiration. I'm serious too!

Thanks.

Emily Winslow · Jan 5, 2008

honeycomb said:
I want to keep the dream there because it's been critiqued with rave reviews. The agent said she really liked it, until she realized...

Would you start it out with:
MC went to bed, weary and tired, tossed and turned, blah blah and then start the dream. I think that lets everyone know that she is dreaming, right?

Or is there another way to capture it?

I would put it somewhere else in the book. The mc going to bed does indeed establish it's a dream, but it's also a non-active start with no conflict. Of course, your book could be the exception to the principles we're discussing, but, without reading it, I would advise:

Write a kick-ass beginning, as good as or better than your dream sequence. In fact, have every scene in your book be that good. Let the dream sequence be one of them, deeper in, when we're already hooked into the real action. (And, deeper in, the mc going to sleep can actually be something active--it can be an act of avoidance, or surrender, or *something*... but on the first page it isn't going to be much more than passive.)

honeycomb · Jan 5, 2008

Emily Winslow said:
I would put it somewhere else in the book. The mc going to bed does indeed establish it's a dream, but it's also a non-active start with no conflict. Of course, your book could be the exception to the principles we're discussing, but, without reading it, I would advise:

Write a kick-ass beginning, as good as or better than your dream sequence. In fact, have every scene in your book be that good. Let the dream sequence be one of them, deeper in, when we're already hooked into the real action. (And, deeper in, the mc going to sleep can actually be something active--it can be an act of avoidance, or surrender, or *something*... but on the first page it isn't going to be much more than passive.)

Gotcha! Thanks!

Moon Daughter · Jan 5, 2008

scarletpeaches said:
How can it move the story forward if there's no story to move, yet, in the very first chapter?

I know I'm going to get boo'ed for this, but I wouldn't give dreams the thumbs down automatically. I do think if it's used appropriately, it can be effective. One book that I've read that does so is Daughter of Destiny.

Besides...rules are meant to be broken.

ChaosTitan · Jan 5, 2008

honeycomb said:
ChaosTitan;

I believe that one line is worth $1M bucks. You've just sold me. May I use it as a tag? It'll be my inspiration. I'm serious too!

Thanks.

You're free to use it, of course. I didn't coin it, and I honestly don't recall where I heard a variation of it used first (probably here on AW at some time or another). It's one of my inspirations, as well.

mum23 · Jan 6, 2008

Some may disagree, but had you thought about writing it as a prologue?
I read somewhere (among my pile of do's and don'ts) that some agents don't like dreams, yet some work really well. I suppose you have to ask yourself, how many books have you read with a dream sequence in them?
May be talking utter nonscence and probably am!

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