Name Calling and POV

TheIT · Oct 25, 2007

I hit something which is bothering me regarding POV and names, so I thought I'd ask for opinions.

Toward the end of my novel, my MC's father shows up and is in several scenes with my MC. The novel is 3rd person limited switching between two POV characters (my MC and another). When writing from my MC's point of view, what name should the narrative use when referring to my MC's father?

I figure the choices are: "Father" (the name my MC would call him), "MC's father" (to distance the narration from the MC), or "Mr. Smith" (further distancing the narration from the MC).

My guess is that "Father" would be the correct choice because the narration is usually very closely linked to the MC, but it feels wrong somehow. It might be that what I've got written isn't POV specific enough.

Opinions?

Thanks in advance.

Devil Ledbetter · Oct 25, 2007

If it's written in close third, go with "Father."

maestrowork · Oct 25, 2007

It really depends on your overall POV narrator... if it's in close 3rd, then it should be "Father," I suppose. Otherwise, I'd use "his father" or his real name (e.g. Joe). Either way, calling him "his father" or "Father" would just get tedious so you need to shift things around.

WittyandorIronic · Oct 25, 2007

Good question! I am unsure of what I would do... hmph. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone thinks though.

ChaosTitan · Oct 25, 2007

TheIT said:
It might be that what I've got written isn't POV specific enough.

Might be.

Call him whatever the MC (or Point of view character) would call him. If his father wasn't around much and they have a bad relationship, he could refer to him by his first name, or simply as "my father," instead of a more endearing "Father." If he and his dad get along great, he could refer to him as "Dad."

maestrowork · Oct 25, 2007

ChaosTitan said:
Might be.

Call him whatever the MC (or Point of view character) would call him. If his father wasn't around much and they have a bad relationship, he could refer to him by his first name, or simply as "my father," instead of a more endearing "Father." If he and his dad get along great, he could refer to him as "Dad."

This doesn't really work in 3rd limited, though. I can't imagine:

"Dave called Dad a moment ago and got a voicemail, so he told Dad that he would be late coming home for Thanksgiving."

That just doesn't make sense. Even in 3rd, I can "get it" but it's not natural to me. To me, there's always a "narrator" even if it's a close 3rd. So "Dad" just sounds like the narrator's dad. It works in 1st person but not 3rd. Instead, this would work better:

"Dave called his dad a moment ago and got a voicemail, so he told him that he would be late coming home for Thanksgiving." Or if you want a bit more distance:

"Dave called Joe a momemt ago and got a voicemail, so he told Joe that he would be late coming home for Thanskgiving." Provided that we know Joe is Dave's father, of course.

Azraelsbane · Oct 25, 2007

I'm with Chaos on this, though it really depends on the instance it's being used in, because Maestro's right, you don't want it to sound ridiculous.

I know where you're coming from, because I have an instance like this in the novel I just finished. Most people call one of my MCs by his nickname, but there's one MC who refuses to use the guy's nickname, so whenever I'm in that char's pov every reference in the narrative where I would have used the nickname otherwise, uses the guy's real name. Just an example. None of my betas complained about it, so I figured it worked out well. Also I felt it gave that pov a more personal touch.

Soccer Mom · Oct 25, 2007

I have a 3rd limited novel where I refer to MC's father as both "Pa" and "his father" (set in 1850's Appalachia).

"I reckon that would be fair," Pa said.

Jeremy took his father the axe. "Is this what you wanted?"

Pa shook his head.

It just depends on what sounds natural there.

mikeland · Oct 25, 2007

TheIT said:
I figure the choices are: "Father" (the name my MC would call him), "MC's father" (to distance the narration from the MC), or "Mr. Smith" (further distancing the narration from the MC).

My guess is that "Father" would be the correct choice because the narration is usually very closely linked to the MC, but it feels wrong somehow. It might be that what I've got written isn't POV specific enough.

My first thought is that if using the term you've decided your MC prefers ("father") feels wrong to you as the writer, maybe it is not really what your MC would call his dad. Particularly if the 3rd person POV is really closely linked to the MC.

Maybe this glitch you've discovered is a chance to ask more questions of the character and is not a POV problem at all.

maestrowork · Oct 25, 2007

Soccer Mom said:
I have a 3rd limited novel where I refer to MC's father as both "Pa" and "his father" (set in 1850's Appalachia).

"I reckon that would be fair," Pa said.

Jeremy took his father the axe. "Is this what you wanted?"

Pa shook his head.

It just depends on what sounds natural there.

In this case, I think it works because Pa becomes a "name." "Dad" or "Mom" becomes confusing because they're too common. I've seen a character referred to as "the Old Man" and that works just fine as well.

TheIT · Oct 25, 2007

Thanks, this helps, and I'm beginning to think the answer is "all of the above".

The scene in question is a pretty tense scene with several characters where the MC is not feeling much like a son at the beginning but has a reconciliation with his father by the end. The MC is an observer through much of the scene so the narration needs to indicate when the MC's father is speaking. I think part of the problem that the MC is detached from the action, so having the narration say "Father" seems too close. I'm thinking one approach is to have the narrator refer to "Mr. Smith" while the MC is observing, then switch to "his father" when delving deeper into the MC's thoughts. The change in name could indicate the change in the MC's feelings. Either that, or bring the POV a lot closer to the MC's thoughts from the beginning and use "Father" all the way through.

One way or another, I need to revise this scene.

It's weird. I don't get this same twinge of wrongness when referring to a sibling of the POV character. I bounce between the name of the brother and "his brother" with ease, maybe because it's natural for siblings to use proper names. But when referring to a parent, it feels strange to use a proper name rather than a title.

Marlys · Oct 25, 2007

My WIP uses close third (alternating between two characters), and features a man visiting his grandmother. Like Soccer Mom, I switch between the "name" Grandma and his grandmother. It seems logical to me--the same way as if I were writing in first I would use Grandma or my grandmother.

His grandmother didn’t look persuaded.

“Civil?” Grandma’s lips grew white. “After what—”

“I’m sure that won’t be necessary, dear,” his grandmother said

Grandma rang the bell, quite loudly

I never use her first name (Cornelia) or title (Lady Maxwell) when in her grandson's POV. I'm not convinced that would work.

maestrowork · Oct 25, 2007

I use my character's father's name but for specific reason: he and his father are estranged so he would only refer to his father by his name, and not anything like Pa or father or whatever -- so it reveals the character's distance toward his father.

Shadow_Ferret · Oct 25, 2007

I'd agree with everyone here, that it depends on how close the MC is to his father. You would then refer to him as his father, or his dad. Or whatever.

In my case, and if it was my dad being referred to, it would be, "that jerk."

maestrowork · Oct 25, 2007

Some called theirs "the sperm donor."

Name Calling and POV

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Devil Ledbetter

Come on you stranger, you legend,

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

WittyandorIronic

ChaosTitan

Around

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Azraelsbane

Agony is defeat

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

mikeland

Call me Pookie

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

TheIT

Infuriatingly Theoretical

Marlys

Resist. Love. Go outside.

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray