Positive Female Characters In Film

BigWords

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Spilling out of this thread (to keep things more or less on track in that conversation, and to complement the list here).

There are numerous characters which have grabbed my attention over the years, though rarely main characters - in Strange Days I was always impressed with Angela Bassett's character "Mace" Mason. One of the main characters who I have a lot of love for is Katharine Hepburn in The African Queen, able to hold her own (and then some) against Bogey.
 

mirandashell

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Could you define a positive female character? Just so we're all on the same page.
 

BigWords

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The linked discussions go some way to explaining the choice of wording in the title, but I would characterize this as being non-exploitative roles where the character (for whatever reason) is memorable - I'm sure the thinking behind the ongoing discussion is going to be covered again anyways. :)
 

mirandashell

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So it would be a good idea for me to read the original thread?

LOL!

Back in a bit.....
 

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I would say Ripley from Alien is of course a great one. Alice from the live action Alice in Wonderland. She was strong willed and intelligent.
 
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BunnyMaz

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I'll second Ripley, definitely.
 

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Despite being rather unimpressed with the movie Pathfinder, I liked Starfire (played by Moon Bloodgood) quite a bit.
 

regdog

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Sarah Connor-Terminator
Mulan
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Mr Flibble

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Any character Katherine Hepburn ever played? Now there was a lady.

Ripley goes without saying, imo.

I quite liked Sarah Connor in T2 - she knew what was coming and didn't shirk, just did what she had to. Ultimate heroine of the revolution?

I think there's a lot of films that show women being strong in a quieter way - Steel Magnolias anyone?
 

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I would certainly second Mulan and Hermione. I've always identified pretty strongly with Ms. Grainger.

I'd add Yvaine (the fallen star) from Stardust. Any movie where the heroine rescues the hero through her unique personal abilities is a winner, in my eyes.
Also, Chihiro from Spirited Away, Sophie from Howl's Moving Castle, and Nausicaa from Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind (though I prefer the manga to the movie). Miyazaki has a talent for female characters. :)

I also enjoyed Scarlett Johannsen's character Black Widow in the recent Avengers, but I'm not so sure about that one. I mostly enjoyed the way the character subverted and undermined certain female super-hero stereotypes.

I know there are others, but I can't think of them off the top of my head.
 

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I tried responding to this yesterday, but I had to mull things over. As a matter of fact, I'm still mulling.

When I think "positive," I don't necessarily think strong, kick-ass, tough. Ripley? Absolutely. I loved what she did for female movie roles.

But, I also think of female characters who were portrayed in a positive (non-stereotypical) way. By that definition alone, you can cross off about 99% of the female characters from romantic comedies.

A few characters that pop into my head:

Juno
Cher in Silkwood (or Mask)
Chloë Sevigny in Boys Don't Cry
Frances McDormand in Almost Famous

There are more, but I'll have to think. I do take this question as more than a "take names and kick butt later, look at my muscles," type of deal. Though, I do love me some Linda Hamilton, Trinity from the Matrix, and pretty much all characters Summer Glau plays. :)
 

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Why can't I think of any??

anyway I liked black widow from the avengers and was surprised that I didn't notice any T&A shots, especially considering the way all of the posters for the movie looked. She seemed pretty bad ass, but why didn't she get her own movie?

Ok I thought of one... Susan from Monsters vs Aliens. I actually really liked that movie.
 

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Sarah Connor-Terminator

To me, the cool thing about this character is you see her becoming strong. The change is played out. She begins the movie a disco-attending, stare-in-the-mirror ditzy party girl like her roommate. And then circumstances force her to become something else. It happens in stages, but when Reese is hurt at the factory, it finalizes, bam, and her voice changes. She's a drill sergeant screaming at him. And she never regresses. She's the soldier forever after; there's steel in her. I always saw it as a profoundly feminist film for this reason.
 

BunnyMaz

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I agree it's difficult to think of many. Part of it might be the terms.

A "strong" female character... well that's easier, because I define strong as well-written, consistently written and well characterised. A character can be strong on terms of being well developed and still be a bad example of a positive character.

A "perfect" character... Ripley is really the only one I could think of off hand. The problem is some of the issues with individual characters are issues because of the overwhelming culture, or because they portray stuff that gets overused.

For example. Xena is pretty damn awesome. Unashamed of her sexuality, strong, confident, capable and witty, but also capable of expressing her emotions, being nurturing and being feminine when the mood took her. In a world full of great, non-objectified characters, she'd be high on my list. But the outfit she wore was very much designed to titillate male viewers. Which is only really a problem because it happens all the time, rather than being a problem with the character herself.

Oh I did think of more excellent ones in general, though! Katara and Toph, and Zuki, from Avatar (the TV series, never saw the film).
 

BigWords

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Xena is pretty damn awesome. Unashamed of her sexuality, strong, confident, capable and witty, but also capable of expressing her emotions, being nurturing and being feminine when the mood took her. In a world full of great, non-objectified characters, she'd be high on my list. But the outfit she wore was very much designed to titillate male viewers. Which is only really a problem because it happens all the time, rather than being a problem with the character herself.

A question off the back of that comment, as it does seem to raise other issues for me (and apologies if this is a derail, but I really am interested in how this plays out) - if the (lack of) costume in Xena is an issue, how about the giant fake breasts in Erin Brockovich? Half of the adverts for that film made great play of her breasts, but given all that she accomplished in the film (and, incidentally, in real life) does that diminish - in any way - the good aspects? I would say that it is an aspect of the person, and the character, and no matter what an individual wears they shouldn't be criticized for their clothing choices.
 

Alessandra Kelley

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I agree it's difficult to think of many. Part of it might be the terms.

A "strong" female character... well that's easier, because I define strong as well-written, consistently written and well characterised. A character can be strong on terms of being well developed and still be a bad example of a positive character.

A "perfect" character... Ripley is really the only one I could think of off hand. The problem is some of the issues with individual characters are issues because of the overwhelming culture, or because they portray stuff that gets overused.

For example. Xena is pretty damn awesome. Unashamed of her sexuality, strong, confident, capable and witty, but also capable of expressing her emotions, being nurturing and being feminine when the mood took her. In a world full of great, non-objectified characters, she'd be high on my list. But the outfit she wore was very much designed to titillate male viewers. Which is only really a problem because it happens all the time, rather than being a problem with the character herself.

This is an interesting point and very much something I'm thrashing through. I think I have less of a problem with Xena's outfit because it's not solely designed to be visually appealing to men. I don't object to things being a certain kind of beautiful as long as they have other meanings and uses, which is how I see Xena's costume. I'll grant you it's goofy, but it's very like the semi-practical armor I was designing for my D&D characters as a kid, with no thought to appealing to male eyes.

I do have a problem with the constant cultural barrage of empty beauty, contorted poses and outfits with no purpose whatsoever except to titillate males. It can't be good for people, men included.

It's a little hard to explain, because this is an aspect of my art I've been exploring for some years. I am very interested in the symbolism and deeper meaning of clothes. They are a vital part of human communication; they are almost the way we define the people we see. Yet human finery is generally disregarded as something trivial and undeserving of serious study.

The way clothes are worn and presented can communicate as much as any other human art. I see no reason to not use the artistic tools available in clothing, including beauty and movement and yes, appeal to the male -- and female -- gaze. Humans react very strongly to the visually appealing, and in clothing as with any art, it is a waste to use it for empty prettiness and titillation.
 

BunnyMaz

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A question off the back of that comment, as it does seem to raise other issues for me (and apologies if this is a derail, but I really am interested in how this plays out) - if the (lack of) costume in Xena is an issue, how about the giant fake breasts in Erin Brockovich? Half of the adverts for that film made great play of her breasts, but given all that she accomplished in the film (and, incidentally, in real life) does that diminish - in any way - the good aspects? I would say that it is an aspect of the person, and the character, and no matter what an individual wears they shouldn't be criticized for their clothing choices.

That's why I emphasised that it isn't a problem with the character itself so much as a problem with the trend. As an individual character I love Xena, and I love her outfit and her open, unashamed sexuality. She was a fantastic character for me growing up.

The issue isn't any individual character having a certain body type, or wearing certain clothes, or having a certain attitude to sex. The problem is that it gets used over and over and over and over again to the point that it's expected the female lead and most of the female supporting cast of a given film or TV series will be portrayed to serve the sexual needs of a presumed male-straight audience.

Like the Bechdel test, which isn't actually any sort of indicator of whether a film is feminist in it's treatment of women, or fair, or even if it's a basically good film, but which does show trends.

Especially as, with the sex thing, it's becoming more common to portray the female protagonists in work as a Strong Female Character.

I just meant that this makes it hard for me to pick individual characters I can say are "positive", because I either have to acknowledge problematic trends portrayed by those characters or say something like "Samus, except in the most recent game" or "Spoiler, at least until her torture-porn death scene" or "Big Barda, until she got fridged off-scene". (Not film characters, but the point stands).

Still, that makes it interesting, eh?

Maybe we could define individually what we think of when we think of a positive female character? Or female characters that had a positive impact on us? Because then Xena definitely counts for me.

*edit* ooh, good points there Alessandra. I like the idea of clothing-as-a-tool. Then it gets to the point of; does the outfit/outfits used for this character work for the character? Do these clothes, worn this way, suit the personality we're told she has? Do they convey useful information? Is the overall meaning behind the outfit enhanced or damaged by the way it's worn? The Dresden Codak comic artist's tumblr explores that once in a while. I'll try and find the links.

ETA: Here!
 
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barnhijl

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Everything in Xena was done to be goofy or... i dunno indulgent? the show didn't really take itself too seriously. think of all the "are they lesbians?" episodes and so on.

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED xena growing up. and when I was little she was proof that girls could kick butt. but I really don't think her outfit is problematic b/c of the whole overall feel of the show. If the show had been super serious without all of the.. fan service? then maybe I would see her outfit as standing out. compared to some of the other costumes women wore Xena's outfit might even be considered less sexual (Gabrielle, Callisto, Aphrodite...)
 

Mr Flibble

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compared to some of the other costumes women wore Xena's outfit might even be considered less sexual (Gabrielle, Callisto, Aphrodite...)

A lot of the guys wore rather scrummy outfits too. Not that I was titillated IN ANY WAY by Karl Urban with almost no clothes on. No. Honest. *cough*

Yeah, Xena's outfits seemed to me to fit the whole tone of it, were fairly practical etc. So I didn't really have a problem with them.
 

BunnyMaz

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Good points, all. I think on reflection then, I'll count Xena as a positive one, too. The outfit makes sense in context, and is consistent with both the character and the world she inhabits.

Now. My other half posed one. What about Tank Girl, as portrayed in the film? And the differences between her in the comics and the film?
 

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Tank Girl....of course she's positive!


:D


Okay, more seriously. In the film? Yeah, I think she is. (I liked the film btw). She's smart, can take care of herself, doesn't answer to men (or anyone tbh), she has a tender side and isn't just there to drool over (although they did play with that when all the rippers going all googly cos like OMG THERE'S A WOMAN!) She kicks arse, but is vulnerable at times. She wears what she wears because she wants to IMO. It's pretty practical in a very hot climate to not wear all that much either. I'd wear what she does without a second thought* - it's not even overly girly - desert boots etc.

I'm less conversant with the comics (I've read some, but not huge amounts) but I'd say yes.


*Okay, maybe not the missile bra