Can I reference Wal-Mart in my book?

You should be fine. I've referenced Wal-Mart before (and Walgreens, and so on) and never had an editor so much as mention it.

You can indeed use the names of real corporations and institutions.

The thing to avoid is implying that said corporation or institution, or its current management, are involved in any kind of skulduggery (unless you're writing a non-fiction book and have proof of your allegations that you believe will stand up in court).

"John went to Disney World" is 100% fine.

"John went to Disney World and thought it was boring and overrated" is 100% fine.

"John went to Disney World and was abducted by organ thieves in the pay of the Disney Corporation's management" is absolutely not fine.

Hehheh. I created a new double-decker Walmart in Cody Wyoming and had a werewolf rage through it, tearing it to pieces. If they want me, they can come and get me.

Tri

There are two primary advantages I see in making up your own store.

First, although you may think your story presents the store in a positive or neutral light, the corporate lawyers may not. It costs them nothing to issue a Cease and Desist Letter. How much would it cost you to defend against it?

Second, creating a fictional store allows you greater flexibility in tailoring it to your story's exact needs. Your readers are going to know how a Wal-Mart is laid out, and what is available there. If you need to cheat, they may notice.

SophiaDreith said:

I think, you can use the name so long as you aren't intimating that the company is doing something that would harm their reputation. Is this true?

Click to expand...

Yes. The more incidental the reference, the better. I mean, you are talking about looting a department store, after all.

If Wal-Mart was smart, they'd sell post-apocalypse gift cards, only valid after a major worldwide disaster.

Allen R. Brady said:

First, although you may think your story presents the store in a positive or neutral light, the corporate lawyers may not. It costs them nothing to issue a Cease and Desist Letter. How much would it cost you to defend against it?

Click to expand...

Nothing.

You don't have to "defend" against Cease and Desist letters.

IceCreamEmpress said:

Nothing.

You don't have to "defend" against Cease and Desist letters.

Click to expand...

That's your prerogative, of course, but ignoring them is generally considered a bad idea. Every legal website I can find says that receiving one is your cue to hire a lawyer.

Sounds like you'll be using it in the sense of "We thought we were going to die, and then we found a Wal-Mart! Everything we'd ever need! Yay, we were saved!"
Heck, they may ask to quote your work in ads.

Oh, if it were wrong to mention real stores under any circumstances, meaning if Office Max started total outcry about me talking about a character going to Office Max to buy a pack of blank DVD-R discs, I'd be screwed royally because I do that all the time.


"Hey, Crystal, want to accompany me to Office Max? I have no backup media whatsoever, my hard drive's failing and I'm about to lose all my school papers!" :eek

A few minutes later, Crystal and Liam went to Office Max to buy a pack of blank DVD-R discs for Liam to back up all his files in.


Yes, that was a random example, I came up with it without even thinking about it, and Crystal and Liam are characters from my real present WIP's...yes, but I hope you get my point.


I'd never say,

Crystal and Liam thought the Wal-mart franchise was terrible because they sell products below quality standards to scam their customers, so in their minds, Wal-Mart should shut down and cease to exist forever.

SophiaDreith said:

I'm writing a novella that is a post apocolyptic story taking place only a year or two after an outbreak of a virus. I think that if survivors found an intact Walmart, it would basically be like finding a gold mine because they have everything from car batteries to medical supplies.

Click to expand...

Why are you letting your characters find a goldmine? (whatever its name).

If it actually is the promised land and solves all their problems then its owners may love you but it's not going to be good for drama. if it's a haunted goldmine full of rats / zombies / mutant flesh eating squirrels then you don't want to associate it with any brand with lots of lawyers.

Walking Dead solves the problem by "going into town" or "to the pharmacy". It seems to work well for them.

Craig

Allen R. Brady said:

That's your prerogative, of course, but ignoring them is generally considered a bad idea. Every legal website I can find says that receiving one is your cue to hire a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Gee, I can't imagine why a "legal website" would encourage anyone to hire a lawyer when it might be unnecessary.

Seriously, it is perfectly legal (at least in the US) for someone to refer to any business in the world in their novel. An attempt by that business to intimidate the writer with a letter should be met with the contempt it deserves. (See this example of a frivolous and harassing cease-and-desist letter for an analogous example. Intellectual property law does not mean that the intellectual property holders have the right to control every mention of the IP in question.)

A cease-and-desist letter may be the first step in an actual legal action, sure. But it's often just pointless saber-rattling.

Thanks everyone. I've had a similar question for days and hadn't had the chance to ask yet.

Allen R. Brady said:

That's your prerogative, of course, but ignoring them is generally considered a bad idea. Every legal website I can find says that receiving one is your cue to hire a lawyer.

Click to expand...

Receiving a cease and desist letter is generally your cue to cease and desist. But you're right, ignoring such a letter is a bad idea, unless you're positive it's going no further.

But I am not going to receive such a letter when using a Walmart in this way, and if I did, I'd be laughing so hard I doubt I could talk to a lawyer.

When I stopped laughing, I'd tell Walmart what they could do with the letter.

Novels use real businesses routinely. Novels have people murdered in famous buildings. Novels use brand names, and novels even have characters who hate fast food restaurants, hate Walmart, and name them in their hate.

It is not actionable to have a character say Walmart sucks dead bunnies. Only knowingly false, and serious, charges are actionable. Opinion never is.

As for cost, it costs nothing to defend yourself against a cease and desist letter. Know what happens if you do ignore one? Usually nothing. Such a letter is not going to take you to court, so where does the cost of defense come in?

No cost comes in until and unless the business actually sues you, which is a long, long way down the road from that initial letter, long after you sell the novel, and long after an agent, several editors, and a legal department have looked at it, none of which is going to worry for a second about such use.

It's done all the time. I'm not sure I've written more than half a down stories set in current time where I haven't used one real business or another. I frequently use fast food restaurants, by name, and often have the character hate the food. So what? Do you really think McDonald's is going to send me a cease and desist letter because a character calls them "McYuck", or that I'd pay any attention to it if they did?

There are advantages to using fake p[laces, but there are also huge advantages to using real ones. Walmart sets the story in the real world, while a fake business does not. This is a huge plus, and there is no danger at all in using the name of a famous business in a novel.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/0446672211/?tag=absowrit-20

Where the Heart is by Billie Letts is based on a girl who got abandoned at a Wal-mart and had her baby there. Because she made Wal-mart famous by having a "Wal-mart baby", they gave her a job at any one of the locations for life.

Great book, and has a movie based off the book starring Natalie Portman and Ashley Judd. So yes, I think you will be OK.

IceCreamEmpress said:

Gee, I can't imagine why a "legal website" would encourage anyone to hire a lawyer when it might be unnecessary.

Seriously, it is perfectly legal (at least in the US) for someone to refer to any business in the world in their novel. An attempt by that business to intimidate the writer with a letter should be met with the contempt it deserves. (See this example of a frivolous and harassing cease-and-desist letter for an analogous example. Intellectual property law does not mean that the intellectual property holders have the right to control every mention of the IP in question.)

A cease-and-desist letter may be the first step in an actual legal action, sure. But it's often just pointless saber-rattling.

Click to expand...

Yup. In one book I read, a character was going to have to buy a dress. Another character said something like, "I'll have to go with you to make sure you don't buy it at K-Mart," and the first protested, "I wouldn't buy it at K-Mart!" It's not something to worry about. If you can use Manolo Blahnik shoes to indicate someone rich and/or foolish, you can use Walmart to indicate someone rural, poor, thrifty, heedless--or post-Apocalyptic.

Large companies are constantly trying to extend their power. Normal people shouldn't let them.

This is a very helpful thread. Thanks.

At present I worry a bit whether I should use iPhone / iMac or just "smartphone / computer" in the WIP. But hey, iPhone / iMac are in sitcoms and movies so often.

So it would probably be okay in Wal-Mart's case. The brand sign may be not shown, but you can tell it's Wal-Mart from the shelves, posters and label colors.

--Merry Xmas

SophiaDreith said:

I wondered about this as well. I refer to my character's ipad as a tablet but when the character references apps, it's pretty obvious it's an ipad.

And I was under the impression that when you see all those apple products on TV, it's not because they can just place what ever they want, but rather that Apple is paying for the exposure. I could be wrong.

Click to expand...

I forget what I wanted to say a while ago. Hmm, 1, we use those brands in the book, it's kind of like advertising. To be honest, Wal-Mart or Apple or other companies should pay us XD

2, the most important thing is, suppose our books are published, say, by RANDOM HOUSE or HARPER COLLINS or so. And we still get letters from Wal-Mart's lawyers. We can, perhaps, tell them that *lawyers* of Random House don't find any problem with using those brand names.

Sorry my mind is a bit messy, but you get the idea ^^

For the record, it's Walmart, not Wal-Mart.

SophiaDreith said:

And I was under the impression that when you see all those apple products on TV, it's not because they can just place what ever they want

Click to expand...

Producers can indeed put whatever products they want in a TV show (as long as the narrative of the show doesn't present a falsely derogatory image of the product--Dexter the serial killer can't be shown to murder his victims by having them eat a Hostess Twinkie and explain that Hostess Twinkies are poison, for instance).

but rather that Apple is paying for the exposure.

Click to expand...

But they make people pay for the exposure, because they can. When you see a brand name blurred out, it isn't because they aren't allowed to show a Dr. Pepper can or whatever--it's because Dr. Pepper wouldn't pay for the placement. Or because Coke is already paying for placement and their contract includes "no competitors' brands shall be visible."


Nobody is going to get a letter from Walmart's lawyers, except perhaps if you spell it Wal-Mart and you get a letter saying that the company prefers "Walmart" (fairly recent rebranding, by the way, which isn't even consistent throughout walmart.com yet).