I'm still new to writing. I've wanted to write a novel for years but only recently is it that i've managed to get some decent(ish) stuff written down on paper. One of the problems i sometimes face is that of theme. Do you all set out with a clear idea of the themes you want to explore? There are times when a certain issue could be in my mind, and i will look for ways to write about that. But a lot of the time I would find it hard to sit down and craft a story around a theme, instead I just seem to come up with characters to write about or just let a story come out following its own path. Is this advisable? I suspect most writers already know how their story is going to pan out (roughly) or at least which themes are going to be dealt with.
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Some people write with clear themes in their minds, and some just write the story, and wait for the themes to come out. You can strengthen the themes during rewrites.
For me, I usually have a couple of universal themes in mind, which work together as a general framework for my stories.
For me, I usually have a couple of universal themes in mind, which work together as a general framework for my stories.
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I think that most writers - I say MOST - don't think of a theme and build a story around it. I think the theme just emerges and they roll with it. Sometimes writers don't even realize some of their themes until after someone else who reads the novel, points them out.
The novel series I am developing had no clear theme "goal" when I started writing it, then eventually I noticed a theme of "consequences." But after a dark period in my life, the story took a dark turn and a new theme emerged so I just went with it. So, I wouldn't worry too much about theme. Just develop the characters, write the story, and more than likely, a theme or two will emerge you didn't even know you were writing that you can build on and stress more in the final drafts - and probably a couple more themes will be pointed out to you by someone else later.
(Just my opinion, of course)
The novel series I am developing had no clear theme "goal" when I started writing it, then eventually I noticed a theme of "consequences." But after a dark period in my life, the story took a dark turn and a new theme emerged so I just went with it. So, I wouldn't worry too much about theme. Just develop the characters, write the story, and more than likely, a theme or two will emerge you didn't even know you were writing that you can build on and stress more in the final drafts - and probably a couple more themes will be pointed out to you by someone else later.
(Just my opinion, of course)
I concur with previous posters--it's not necessary to formulate a pre-conceived theme before you begin to write. You *could*, of course, if you feel more comfortable writing that way, but since you don't, don't worry about it. Let the theme emerge on its own, and train yourself to recognize it within the first draft and reinforce it in the second.Jigwaan said:
And (this may be obvious, in which case forgive me) don't confuse the *plot* with the *theme*. Even if you know exactly how the story is going to pan out (the plot, in other words), that doesn't guarantee that you know the themes contained within--indeed, you could write two very different books with essentially the same plot, but very different themes.
(As an anecdote, I've just discovered a very strong theme of love and hate and indifference within my current work in process. That theme doesn't really affect the *plot*, per se, but it does sharply define the characters, and I think a future [i.e., second draft] refinement of the theme will amke the characters more interesting.)
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I tend to agree with EG - the theme usually arises from the writing. Of course, I have also worked the other way around. I developed a story based on the aftermath of 9/11, but I extracted those feelings and placed them in a very different story. In a way, I think that theme came before the story.
I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter. If you can work from a theme and develop a good story, then more power to you. As long as words hit the page, it's unimportant what gets them there.
I suppose ultimately it doesn't matter. If you can work from a theme and develop a good story, then more power to you. As long as words hit the page, it's unimportant what gets them there.
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I usually begin with a premise and write the first draft. Then I may notice I've also got a theme or two, which I can further develop in the next draft.
Theme
I never start with theme, or even think about it in the first draft. I just want to tell a good story and build good characters. If you do this, theme will be somewhere in the story. You can then bring it closer to the surface in the final draft.
One of the few writers I know who seems always to start with theme, and even makes theme the main point of the novel, is Margaret Atwood. I don;t always like the result, but many readers do.
I never start with theme, or even think about it in the first draft. I just want to tell a good story and build good characters. If you do this, theme will be somewhere in the story. You can then bring it closer to the surface in the final draft.
One of the few writers I know who seems always to start with theme, and even makes theme the main point of the novel, is Margaret Atwood. I don;t always like the result, but many readers do.
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Exactly. As with every other aspect of writing, it's different for every person. What's important is what works for you.maestrowork said:
I start with a general theme in mind, but I suspect that EG is right--writers who do this are in the minority.
- Victoria
Starting with a theme is difficult, but worthwhile, I think. Knowing what I want to explore helps me keep focused, so that the characters and plot can reflect the theme (if I'm exploring 'loss affects everyone differently, and yet the same' as a theme, I know that virtually every name character has to have some sort of loss in their past or future, and I can try to find ways to reflect it in the setting and the plot as well.)
The process I've been working with most recently is:
1. Determine main theme and subthemes
2. Figure out primary characters
3. Loose outline, reflecting characters' progressions
4. Tighter outline, discovering new stuff all the while. Multiple iterations of this.
5. Draft. Discover yet more new stuff.
6. Re-outline if necessary.
7. Redraft
Right now I'm somewhere between 4 and 5; I've completed two books (unsold, unagented, season comments appropriately) using a somewhat different approach, but this one has me optimistic. When I'm not banging my head against the desk, that is.
No right ways, no wrong ways; there's 'works for you' and 'does not work for you,' that is all
The process I've been working with most recently is:
1. Determine main theme and subthemes
2. Figure out primary characters
3. Loose outline, reflecting characters' progressions
4. Tighter outline, discovering new stuff all the while. Multiple iterations of this.
5. Draft. Discover yet more new stuff.
6. Re-outline if necessary.
7. Redraft
Right now I'm somewhere between 4 and 5; I've completed two books (unsold, unagented, season comments appropriately) using a somewhat different approach, but this one has me optimistic. When I'm not banging my head against the desk, that is.
No right ways, no wrong ways; there's 'works for you' and 'does not work for you,' that is all
Somewhere near mid-book some wonderful things happened. Two minor characters outgrew the boxes I stuck them in and started steering the story, and a theme I didn't know existed suddenly leapt off the page.
That night I wrote 12,000 words.
I hope it happens to you. It was the best high I've ever experienced, and I grew up in the 70s.
That night I wrote 12,000 words.
I hope it happens to you. It was the best high I've ever experienced, and I grew up in the 70s.
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Genre seems to be more story-based, theme-second. Literary fiction tends to be heavy on themes -- so I don't doubt many literary fiction writers start with themes first, then structure their stories around them (e.g. The Hours by Michael Cunningham).
Maestro, that's true, certainly...
...but equally certainly, theme -does- factor into everything, regardless of genre. I'm fairly convinced that a unified theme/set of themes is what subconsciously keeps a book feeling "on track" to me as a reader, whether genre or not.
Basically, I think the theme usually comes out when someone says "what's the book about?"
You can go into a ten-minute plot description ("It's about a kid who gets whisked away from his house and sucked into a giant vortex, and he ends up in a forest..") or you can give the theme ("It's about a kid who discovers that even if you can fly, you're still bound to your promises on earth.")
As long as the book is exploring that theme, I'm into it... but when it veers off into "oh, and gumdrop mountains are tasty!" it loses me.
If that makes any sense to anyone besides me
...but equally certainly, theme -does- factor into everything, regardless of genre. I'm fairly convinced that a unified theme/set of themes is what subconsciously keeps a book feeling "on track" to me as a reader, whether genre or not.
Basically, I think the theme usually comes out when someone says "what's the book about?"
You can go into a ten-minute plot description ("It's about a kid who gets whisked away from his house and sucked into a giant vortex, and he ends up in a forest..") or you can give the theme ("It's about a kid who discovers that even if you can fly, you're still bound to your promises on earth.")
As long as the book is exploring that theme, I'm into it... but when it veers off into "oh, and gumdrop mountains are tasty!" it loses me.
If that makes any sense to anyone besides me
I don't disagree with you, jd. I sort of think of theme as the main support beam underneath a house: your readers come to visit, and ooh and ahh over the view and the layout and the woodwork and the furniture, and only some of them will troop down into the basement to look at the foundation and the support beams--the rest might not even notice. But if your house lacks the support beam, then the floors sag and the plaster cracks and no one comments on the nice furniture any more.
If that makes any sense to anyone besides me. I suck at metaphors.
If that makes any sense to anyone besides me. I suck at metaphors.
For my own writing, and a lot of what I read, I find that the theme tends to come from what is made of the charecters and the situation, as opposed to the charecter development being guided by an overall theme. The situations they face and the way they react to them will tend to develop a theme by itself, provided the charecters are consistant. I agree that a theme is a necessary foundation, but this is more from the point of view of the story being an enjoyable read than as a guide for writing it. Though of couse, some may find a theme keeps them on track, so do what works.
Cheers
Cheers
Theme
I think starting with theme can work very well, if you're the kind of writer who can build a story around theme without letting the theme overpower the story and characters. Not an easy trick. In the wrong hands, starting with theme induces preaching, one of the reasons I think much literary fiction reads poorly.
I believe every good story has a theme. It's unavoidable. A story without a theme isn't a story at all. But I'm simply not the kind of writer who can wrap a story around a theme and still produce something I'd want to read.
I think starting with theme can work very well, if you're the kind of writer who can build a story around theme without letting the theme overpower the story and characters. Not an easy trick. In the wrong hands, starting with theme induces preaching, one of the reasons I think much literary fiction reads poorly.
I believe every good story has a theme. It's unavoidable. A story without a theme isn't a story at all. But I'm simply not the kind of writer who can wrap a story around a theme and still produce something I'd want to read.
Jigwaan said:
I am pretty much in the same place. In the past two years I have completed three novels but not yet submitted them. (Next on my list.) In each case, I found that themes made the writing much easier. I started with a general idea of the theme but discovered with each book that there were secondary thems as well. For instance, my epic fantasy series questions how far a sense of honor can take you, what, in fact honor really is. Throughout the story, the MC's honor is tested and contrasted with a more pragmatic friend. This leads to lots of plot twists where the characters bend and grow. The themes did grow out of the characters, but I also had the main theme to start with.
The same thing happened in my historical fiction, that is, I started with a general theme, an idea I wanted to explore-- that even a powerless victim of circumstances can make moral choices-- and I discovered other issues to look at as well. I am an organic writer: though I know the general direction I want the story to go and how it needs to end, only when I am writing do I get a sense of what needs to happen next.
I don't think you can really begin a story with either theme or a premise. You have to start with both. Premise is the right-side of the brain and theme is the left. Only when both are realized can your story really take the reader anywhere. What good is a story where the first three chapters haven't identified the theme of the piece. A proper and identifiable theme should be established as early as the plot will allow.
Look at Of Mice and Men. The theme is established in the first few paragraphs with George petting the mouse too roughly. That scene establishes the tone for the entire work. It sets the atmosphere for the world that Steinbeck is creating. What makes the scene genius is that it establishes a theme while at the same time foreshadows the plot.
I think proper theme, premise, and primary characters have to be thought out before any serious work can begin.
Look at Of Mice and Men. The theme is established in the first few paragraphs with George petting the mouse too roughly. That scene establishes the tone for the entire work. It sets the atmosphere for the world that Steinbeck is creating. What makes the scene genius is that it establishes a theme while at the same time foreshadows the plot.
I think proper theme, premise, and primary characters have to be thought out before any serious work can begin.
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Sledge said:
For some writers this is all true. For many others, it isn't. You can't read a know and tell whether or not theme and/or premise were considered in advance. I never have either theme or premise when I start writing.
Many, many writers never think about either in advance, including some very famous and talented classical writers. I don't know how Steinbeck went about writing a novel, but I do know you can't tell just by reading his fiction how he went about the writing process.
One thing works for one writer and not for another. And, of course, you don't need to plot a novel to write a good one, either.
well, thanks for the replies, there are some good points here that have got me thinking. I am pleased that not everyone works with a theme firmly established from the outset! Think i'll go the middle route and just try and establish theme as early as possible, without worrying about it too much.
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