Conversation with a PA Rep...

NickStone

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So I got a phone call yesterday from "Rebecca", a rep from PA. Since "Publishamerica" showed up on CallerID, I was ready for her. Even before she could say why she was calling, I told her I wasn't looking for a subsidy publisher. "Oh, we're not..." So I continued to tell her all about the stuff I had already read here on AW and in other places. She later sent me an email to address those concerns. I just wanted to post for you the email I got from her. (Side note: I didn't read all of it; I didnt think I needed to)

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Thank you for speaking with me and expressing your concerns. You seem to have read some very old, and very false, news. What you saw posted is simply, plainly, false. Please read the following information carefully, and we will be happy to answer any further questions that you may have.

PublishAmerica represents traditional publishing for tens of thousands of authors, both new and old, plus, tellingly, it represents the end of the vanity publishing industry. Therefore, we are bound to make headlines, and to cause concern to those who profit from charging authors money. Partly as a result of the on-line efforts that you read, our popularity has risen so dramatically that each day over 100 new authors contact us, wanting to join PublishAmerica.

The websites to which you refer have long ago lost credibility, and it would appear that they are rarely taken seriously. We've seen them mocked many times. In fact, as we speak their ringleaders are being sued in New Jersey by a third party for libel and other objectionable behavior. Their attorney in that case, who also is a frequent poster on these websites, was suspended from the practice of law by the Illinois Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission because he defrauded an elderly lady. In the Commission's order, it said that he is "unfit to practice law", "poses a threat to the public and the integrity of the legal profession", and that he was "lying upon lying upon lying".

Fortunately, few people take them seriously, and we rarely hear their name mentioned from any of our roughly 40,000 happily contracted authors or from the more than 200,000 aspiring authors who have sought a PublishAmerica contract to date. Among these are thousands upon thousands of professionals, including lawyers, doctors, and professors, plus many previously published authors and celebrities. If you care to know what real PublishAmerica authors have to say about the nonsense out there in naysay-land, these links may be very helpful:
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=28502&sid=2d3a123b5e6fae91120fc887bcad1303
http://bb.publishamerica.com/viewtopic.php?t=28758

Seeing that, it should come as no surprise that 40 pct of our current authors request that we also publish their next book. That's an astonishing number, given that this reportedly amounts to roughly 100 pct of all authors who actually finish a second book. It tells you something about our authors' satisfaction rate.

Many businesses proudly boast that they have a 95% customer satisfaction ratio. Our ratio is far, far and away above 95%. We operate within only the highest ethical standards. See http://www.publishamerica.com/testimonials for more information.

Here is a brief overview of PublishAmerica:

- Each day, over 100 new authors request to become PublishAmerica authors
- Each year, over 25,000 new authors request to become PublishAmerica
authors
- 3,000,000 households served
- 40,000 proud authors on board
- Thousands of positive newspaper reviews, interviews, or feature stories
- Thousands of book signing events in bookstores across the nation
- Ten years in business
- Ten years of steady growth
- Ten years of doing what no other publisher has ever done before,
much less for free: bringing a status of class to a previously
ignored mass of aspiring authors.

Thousands, each and every month, of PublishAmerica books are sold in bookstores across the nation. Bookstores buy a PublishAmerica book almost two thousand times every day. The PublishAmerica message board is overflowing with testimonials from our authors about their books being stocked in bookstores. Hundreds of bookstores across the nation stock our books.

In closing, it's good to remember that in the not too distant past, authors who were spurned by the established publishing houses had only one alternative left to them: self-publishing through a vanity press. According to industry insiders, when all is said and done vanity publishers charge an average $1400 in return for "publishing" someone's book. Since the arrival of PublishAmerica, who charges zero dollars, period, our authors have kept almost $50 million (!) in their own pockets, money that otherwise could have ended up in vanity coffers. And you still wonder where the mud comes from?

When PublishAmerica entered the market ten years ago, there were three major vanity houses angling for the wallets of authors. Today, after authors discovered PublishAmerica and came running to us in droves, only one of those pay-to-publish entities is still left standing. And you wonder why we, the ultimate agent of change, encounter some hostility?

We hope that this information is helpful, and that you will be very happy with our ever-growing family of authors. And again, if you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to let us know.

Best Wishes,
Rebecca
Acquisitions Department
PublishAmerica, LLLP
 

NickStone

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And this was my response to her letter. Note the fact that I only *sound* like I know what I'm talking about ;)

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Hi Rebecca,

In part of my footwork in investigating PublishAmerica, I sought out an example contract. In doing so, I was also able to find a pseudo-analysis of it as well. This was found at http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21345

My primary concerns were this: I already have all my books published via CreateSpace.com, and it's worked well for me. They have me listed on Amazon, and after that, I market the books myself. The opinion in the above analysis is that PA doesn't handle marketing, which means that I would end up exactly where I am now. There were a host of other concerns mentioned in the analysis that I won't really address.

My goal now is to seek out people that are currently published via PublishAmerica (people that I locate myself; not ones referred to me by PA) that have good things to say about PA. In my stubborn eyes, *every* publisher is a scam artist, except of course those who have published the big-name authors I've obsessed over for so many years. :)

If possible, I'd like to see a copy of the contract I would commit to, so that I could go over it and compare it to the analysis I mentioned above. I would also like to reserve the right to have an attorney of my choice to read the contract and either confirm or deny any of the issues raised by the forum poster I mentioned above.

Talk to ya soon,

~ Tim
 

Old Hack

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I never fail to be surprised by Publish America's creative way with words. That email presents stuff which is sort-of true, but which isn't actually the case: so many people are going to be fooled by it. What a shame.
 
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Marian Perera

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PublishAmerica represents traditional publishing for tens of thousands of authors, both new and old, plus, tellingly, it represents the end of the vanity publishing industry.

How strange, then, that the vanity publishing industry is still going strong. Jada Press, Dorrance, XLibris, VMI, Tate, AuthorHouse, Westbow Press, Diggory Press, etc. do not seem to have received the memo that they were supposed to go out of business thanks to PA.

The websites to which you refer have long ago lost credibility, and it would appear that they are rarely taken seriously. We've seen them mocked many times.

I've seen PA mocked many times. Does this mean that PA has therefore lost credibility and is rarely taken seriously?

Many businesses proudly boast that they have a 95% customer satisfaction ratio. Our ratio is far, far and away above 95%. We operate within only the highest ethical standards.

That would account for PA's current BBB rating of F, I suppose.
 

entropic island

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Made me laugh...who were they referring to with the lawsuit, though? I thought P&E won theirs...

Oh, never mind...:(
 
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Christine N.

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Yes, lost so much credibility that well-respected agents and publishers point to AW as a place for anyone serious about their writing to hang out.

Whatever, PA. You have no relationship whatsoever with the actual publishing industry. Books written by your authors don't count as writing credits, either within the industry or as a market for membership in professional author organizations.

They're credibility in the industry is lower than their advance.
 

kaitie

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Made me laugh...who were they referring to with the lawsuit, though? I thought P&E won theirs...

Oh, never mind...:(

I didn't know the answer to that one either. Enlighten me? Rep points or something if no one wants to say aloud would be appreciated.
 

Cyia

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IIRC (without mentioning names), that's the lawsuit they like to pretend was won by a vanity press when it was actually a personal suit against a single person for direct comments made about a person (as opposed to opinions about a business). They've mentioned it before (including in an attempt at intimidation towards one of their "happy authors" who joined here and posted the correspondence).
 

Richard White

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There is still the Barbara Bauer lawsuit which has not been settled at this time against Writer Beware and others.

See the Barbara Bauer thread for more information.
 

Gillhoughly

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What a sales pitch, Rebecca!

You're certainly unaware that REAL publishers don't bother sending reply mails like that to aspiring writers. They are too busy for it.

You're not a publishing professional, just a PA stooge trying to keep a potential customer from sensibly scarpering!

The websites to which you refer have long ago lost credibility, and it would appear that they are rarely taken seriously.

Gosh, websites like

The Washington Post

Publisher's Weekly

The Complaints Board


The Ripoff Report

Consumer Affairs


The Maryland BBB

The Frederick News Post--

their own home paper--again? :roll:

Rebecca--if PA was a restaurant, the health department would have nuked the site by now.

Give up. That cider you've been swilling on Sunnybrook Farm is really Kool-Aid laced with lies.
 

AC Crispin

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Anyone can sue these days over just about anything. Doesn't mean there is any merit to the case. Writer Beware has already beaten one lawsuit that was filed against us, because it was deemed "frivolous" in a court of law.

PublishAmerica would love to go after Writer Beware. But in ten years, they haven't. I think most people can figure out why.

Writer Beware has received hundreds and hundreds of complaints about PublishAmerica from unhappy, frustrated and, all too often, brokenhearted authors. And anyone who takes even a casual glance at this board will see literally thousands of similar complaints.

Where there's that much stink, something is definitely rotten in Demark...oops, Maryland.

Truth is not a foolproof defense against libel, slander and defamation lawsuits, because of what I said in the first line of this post. But it's the best defense to have on your side.

-Ann C. Crispin
Chair, Writer Beware
www.writerbeware.com
 

merrihiatt

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There are so many things that are incorrect in "Rebecca's" response, but I really want to address this one (bolding and underlining mine):

Seeing that, it should come as no surprise that 40 pct of our current authors request that we also publish their next book. That's an astonishing number, given that this reportedly amounts to roughly 100 pct of all authors who actually finish a second book. It tells you something about our authors' satisfaction rate.

This is a bold face lie. "...this reportedly amounts to roughly 100 pct..." -- baloney! I've finished two books since getting my manuscript published printed through PA and there is no way that I would ever submit any other work to them, EVER! Not even close to 100 percent!!!
 
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kaitie

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My first thought on seeing that was, "I wonder how many of that 60% left never wrote the second book because they were so heartbroken about what happened to the first."
 

Christine N.

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They're twisting the stats. They claim that 40% of all people who write one book will write another. I have no idea if that's true or not, but then PA is saying that because 40% of their authors submit a second book, that ALL PA authors who WRITE a second book will submit it to PA.

It's not correlative - it's like saying that incidence of drowning goes up in the summer because people drink more Kool-aid, when both seem to happen because of a totally other factor - it's hot in summer and people swim more.
 

Unimportant

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Though, Christine, one could argue that there is a causal relationship between Drinking The Kool-Aid and Drowning In The PA Cesspool.
 

tlblack

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Seeing that, it should come as no surprise that 40 pct of our current authors request that we also publish their next book. That's an astonishing number, given that this reportedly amounts to roughly 100 pct of all authors who actually finish a second book. It tells you something about our authors' satisfaction rate.

40% of their current authors might be a close figure considering many writer's are submitting more than one book at a time to PA. I know one has four titles with PA and another submitted five. You take the number of new titles PA is putting out every week recently (which has dropped considerably in the last few months), and 40% might be close to the truth. (as close as PA ever gets to the truth anyway) Those writer's haven't had enough time to figure out their books are dead in the water with PA.
 

Polly

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I know this has probably been said before, but...

- 40,000 proud authors on board
- Thousands of positive newspaper reviews, interviews, or feature stories
- Thousands of book signing events in bookstores across the nation

... that sounds lovely but isn't actually very impressive (far less than even one review or signing per 'proud author', as would also seem to be backed up by the comments on their messageboard) - how are they even stating this ratio as a positive draw?

A real publisher would market the book to someone other than the author. Perhaps their marketing department is too busy offering to send books into space for aliens to read (just buy 14 books and we'll deliver an equivalent amount at no cost to NASA)?
 

Cyia

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how are they even stating this ratio as a positive draw?

Because they're counting on the people who want to be published not looking close enough to figure out how low it is.

There are generally3 kinds of people who show up on PAMB.

Elderly people who use it as a social networking opportunity. They have a family story they want to tell and don't care much about "getting it out there" beyond having a book in hand.

Exceptionally green newbies who type "American publisher" into Google and send out queries to any and all they see because they don't know any better. The first one on the list is usually PA and since PA's acceptance turn around is usually less than 24 hours, they snag the MS before it even has a chance to find a home with a real publisher or agent. The fast turn around plays into the fantasy of having a "hot" property that the editor of a major house was salivating to get and wanted to snap up. They won't do any checking that might tarnish that idea - they're now in the honeymoon phase.

The last group are the ones who have almost zero chance of being published by a commercial house with their MS as it is when they submit it. Maybe it's barely coherent, maybe it's boring, maybe it's 762 pages of 8pt. Arial font, maybe it's a story that's been done and done and done to death and beyond. It makes the rounds and racks up a stack of rejections - most likely form letters - and the writer is frustrated. They "know" their book is pure gold - just like all of those other blockbusters who were turned down by all those big houses too blind to acknowledge their genius...after all they're just like Stephen King and James Patterson (it says so right there on the message board!). All they need is someone to take a chance on their talent (but publishers hate writers and won't do that these days!!!). Maybe they've been told the truth about their work, but don't want to hear it. Instead of taking the steps to do what's needed to fix their MS, they happily hand it over to this "eager" publisher who recognizes it for what it is and speeds it through production with their "vision" in tact. And with PA, they'll be on shelves faster than those losers who went with the watered down morons who control big publishing! They don't slow down long enough to realize they won't be on shelves at all or that they're being sold their own work - it would blow the illusion. That's why you see it referred to as "Author: the role playing game" around here. That's all they're doing, but they have no idea.

PA keeps all of its past authors in its statistics, and since they delete all of the negative or questioning comments, no one knows that they're not happy as they once were. So there's a constant stream of new writers handing over their work, and believing that they've been chosen for publication by a real publisher, without knowing that it's no more prestigious or profitable for their resume than having Kinko's print and bind a copy for them.
 

Gravity

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It is a shame that more PA victims have not filed complaints with the Maryland BBB. Only 102 have been filed, but we've all heard of hundreds more.


Ten thousand complaints could be filed, and it wouldn't make one whit of difference. That's because the BBB considers the dealings of PA and its authors as a business-to-business transaction (rightly or wrongly), rather than business-to-consumer. Thus monkeying around with PA is not in their purview.
 

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Quoting Rebecca:

The websites to which you refer have long ago lost credibility, and it would appear that they are rarely taken seriously. We've seen them mocked many times. In fact, as we speak their ringleaders are being sued in New Jersey by a third party for libel and other objectionable behavior. Their attorney in that case, who also is a frequent poster on these websites, was suspended from the practice of law by the Illinois Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission because he defrauded an elderly lady. In the Commission's order, it said that he is "unfit to practice law", "poses a threat to the public and the integrity of the legal profession", and that he was "lying upon lying upon lying".

Dear Rebecca (and PublishAmerica),

You are mistaken about the identity of Writer Beware's attorney. In fact, you have no idea who our attorney is. We expect your immediate apology.

- Victoria
 

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In my experience, the Better Business Bureau is useless in IDing and avoiding scams aimed at writers.

The BBB has no idea how real publishers or agents operate, therefore they cannot distinguish fake agents and publishers from real ones.

-Ann C. Crispin

P.S. And BTW, PublishAmerica...What Victoria Said. We have reported your libelous comments to our case attorney, and you should apologize to our attorney, as well as to us.