Hiring an editor, good idea or not?

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

I'm currently doing the rounds of agents with my co-written manuscript, and have just had another rejection which offered no more feedback than a short sharp "no thanks."

I'm not in any way complaining about this. I completely understand and accept that agents don't have the time to give detailed critiques to non clients.

Before I submit it to another agent, I'm considering hiring an editor to go through the manuscript and give my co-author and myself some constructive advice and feedback as to why it might not be working at the moment. We’ve been over it many times, re-drafting, editing, sharpening up, etc, but there comes a time when it needs a fresh and impartial pair of eyes.

What's the form on us doing this? Is it acceptable or would another agent not be happy to look at a manuscript which has been edited by an industry professional?

DeleyanLee · Dec 16, 2009

It's not an unknown thing and certainly might not be a bad idea, but I have a coupld remarks/questions, if you would.

1. The vast majority of unpublished writers gather a circle of beta-readers, experienced readers/writers who will read through a ms and offer commentary and may be willing to discuss problems/solutions. Have you considered or tried this?

2. Be careful about choosing an editor. This is one of those areas of writing where scammers flourish. It is also an area where experience and personality should mesh because you're asking someone to take your work and make it better, not make it their own. Even if you don't like their work, you may be responsible for paying them anyway, even if they're not scammers.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

Kalyke · Dec 16, 2009

Why not just turn it over to 10 of the harshest Betas? There are some here that will tear your manuscipt apart, leaving no sentance un-critiqued. It can really be a reality check.

I have worked as an editor, by the way. Probably a lot of writers here have. I worked in a technical manual mill where the writers were scientists-- If you want to ever have experience shaping the worst possible writing into something that makes sense to read, that experience is valuable.

Wayne K · Dec 16, 2009

It's a good idea, unless it's not, in which case I wouldn't.

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

Thank you, all.

Yes, I am wary of falling into the clutches of a scammer. I'm hoping The Writers and Artists Yearbook might be a reliable source.

Good suggestion on the beta-readers. I'll probably give that a go first.

waylander · Dec 16, 2009

OH GOD NOT AGAIN!!!
How many times have we had this discussion in the last few months?
This was I think the last one http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163422

Mods can we please have a sticky on 'hiring an editor for your manuscript'

Fredster · Dec 16, 2009

I'm with WayneK on this one.

Wayne K · Dec 16, 2009

What I'm trying to say is: if someone doesn't want to hire an editor, you can't stop them.

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

waylander said:
OH GOD NOT AGAIN!!!
How many times have we had this discussion in the last few months?
This was I think the last one http://www.absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=163422

Mods can we please have a sticky on 'hiring an editor for your manuscript'

Sorry to have annoyed you. It was a genuine question and I wasn't aware it has been discussed on this forum before. Some of us are relative newcomers, have day jobs and don't spend that much time here.

I'll have a look at that thread you've highlighted.

Thanks again to those who gave helpful replies.

scarletpeaches · Dec 16, 2009

The search function is your friend.

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

edit: I now have the answer I was looking for.

waylander · Dec 16, 2009

You personally didn't annoy me.
This is a topic that clearly needs a sticky

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

waylander said:
You personally didn't annoy me.
This is a topic that clearly needs a sticky

Fair enough. Sorry, I was just a bit thrown back there.

I've read your PM and looked at the thread you've highlighted. I can now see that hiring an editor is not a good idea, so I'll go with the beta option. Thanks.

Wayne K · Dec 16, 2009

I rated this thread a five.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 16, 2009

Perhaps katiemac can update her lovely FAQ/Index (which is, indeed, stickied).

My personal feeling is that it's okay to hire an editor if you really feel you must, but that it's seldom helpful to do so.

Please be sure that you hire someone real. Any number of folks who set up as editors have no real qualifications.

At some point you'll need to learn how to edit your own work. Why not now? Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King is frequently recommended.

darkpowers · Dec 16, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Perhaps katiemac can update her lovely FAQ/Index (which is, indeed, stickied).

My personal feeling is that it's okay to hire an editor if you really feel you must, but that it's seldom helpful to do so.

Please be sure that you hire someone real. Any number of folks who set up as editors have no real qualifications.

At some point you'll need to learn how to edit your own work. Why not now? Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King is frequently recommended.

Great. I'll take a look at that.

Birol · Dec 16, 2009

waylander said:
You personally didn't annoy me.
This is a topic that clearly needs a sticky

If I stickied all the recurring topics, the first five pages would be stickied. Actually, I have a hard time thinking of a topic that hasn't been posted about at least once. (Man, I've been on AW too long.)

No one should feel excessively bad for starting a topic that's been done before, because we've all done it.

James D. Macdonald said:
Perhaps katiemac can update her lovely FAQ/Index (which is, indeed, stickied).

Wonderful idea. Oh, KatieMac....

Phaeal · Dec 16, 2009

Heh, Browne & King get so much good press here at AW, they should give us a kickback. But it's good press well-deserved. Get the book, yesterday.

Beta-reading a whole novel is a big job. When the reader does it for free, it's often the custom to beta-read for him in return. This is fair, and it's good for you, too -- one of the best ways to sharpen your writing skills is to practice them on someone else's MS.

Wayne K · Dec 16, 2009

I got a lot out of reading critiques in SYW.

Deleted member 42 · Dec 16, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
My personal feeling is that it's okay to hire an editor if you really feel you must, but that it's seldom helpful to do so.

Please be sure that you hire someone real. Any number of folks who set up as editors have no real qualifications.

What he said.

If you do determine to hire an editor, don't go cheap. Hire someone who is currently employed by a mainstream publisher as an editor, or who used to be but is now a writer.

Get references.

Albannach · Dec 16, 2009

James D. Macdonald said:
Perhaps katiemac can update her lovely FAQ/Index (which is, indeed, stickied).

My personal feeling is that it's okay to hire an editor if you really feel you must, but that it's seldom helpful to do so.

Please be sure that you hire someone real. Any number of folks who set up as editors have no real qualifications.

At some point you'll need to learn how to edit your own work. Why not now? Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King is frequently recommended.

The funny thing is that after reading that my first drafts improved immensely. There are two books I think every writer should read: On Writing by Stephen King and Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Brown and Dave King.

Then sit down with a stack of the best (recent) books you've ever read and type out a couple of the chapters of each. BOORRRING but it forces you to absorb what they did and how they did it.

Then allow yourself the privilege of writing and editing your own work.

Edit: And read and re-read a grammar book if you don't know grammar. As he said, may as well learn how to do it now, because you have to at some point. Sell the sucker and they expect you to be able to do it.

James D. Macdonald · Dec 16, 2009

The bookstores are full of high school review books and workbooks for people preparing for the SAT/ACT/AP exams etc.

And learning a foreign language is a great way to get to know your own.

IceCreamEmpress · Dec 16, 2009

Medievalist said:
Hire someone who is currently employed by a mainstream publisher as an editor

I want to register disagreement with this for two reasons:

A) it's not fair to people who are freelance editors to suggest that editing work go to moonlighters who already have full-time editing jobs;

B) more importantly, it's really hard when you're working for one house full-time to divorce yourself from the peculiarities of that house's style and give a more general basic edit that will be compatible with wherever the person winds up sending the MS.

(I am sure some people can do it just fine, but I know that it wouldn't have been possible for me because I really internalized the house style when I was working for a house; years of doing freelance editing have taught me a "universal donor" style, and I can't be the only one.)

Note: I am not soliciting work here, and never do--when people have asked if I'd work for them in PMs, I give them contact information for other freelance editors whose work I respect, so my "please send freelance work to freelancers" isn't self-interested.

I agree wholeheartedly that people who have had experience as editors for trade publishers are going to be the best freelance editors for a manuscript one wants to have published by a trade house (if it's an academic manuscript, better to find an editor with experience in academic publishing).

Good resources for finding a highly qualified freelance editor are (in the US) The Editorial Freelancers Association and (in the UK) the Society for Editors and Proofreaders. Posting a job listing on their sites is free.

happywritermom · Dec 17, 2009

I hired a professional and he did a wonderful job copy editing. Content editing was another story. He prefers fast-paced, Grisham-like thriller/mysteries and that's what he suggested I turn my novel into. He wanted to eliminate the main character's story entirely because it was too "literary" and turn my novel into something more generic. My beta readers did a much better job. They suggested cutting back on unneccessary characters, eliminating names that were not essential and picking up the pace in the first 100 pages. They helped me bring the novel up to an entirely different level. So, if you do hire an editor, be careful. Be very careful. And be confident enough in your work that you can pick and choose the advice you will take.

Kitty27 · Dec 17, 2009

I worry about my grammar all the time. I considered an editor but I decided against it.

Give me some gangster beta readers with ruthless pens.

I think beta readers can be far more helpful.

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