Starting With Dialogue

dawn_meadows · May 27, 2009

I can't remember where, but I saw a list of things that turn an agent off. One of the listed things was starting a novel off with dialogue. I've started my story right into the middle of a scene and the first line in the book is dialogue. After seeing that list, I was beginning to have doubts about my opening even though none of my first readers mentioned it.

Today, I opened a book in my genre and it started with dialogue. I liked the opening and I thought it worked well.

What are your thoughts/opinions on books that start with dialogue?

blacbird · May 27, 2009

I believe there's an active thread on this topic already. But, to summarize comments there, you'll find a full spectrum of opinions, pro and con, and if you look at books in all kinds of genres, you'll find plenty that open with dialogue.

caw

The Lonely One · May 27, 2009

Whatever it is, make it good. That is all I require as a reader. Though I will admit, in a short story, I'm way more harsh on a first line of dialog than I am on a first line of description or narration. In a book I can probably forgive it more because I'm gonna give you longer to hook me.

In my WIP, I start with a childhood memory. I usually try pretty hard not to start with ungrounded dialog, but it can work if you're good at it.

this from that very thread. It's on page two of novels.

Danthia · May 27, 2009

There's another thread on this right now, though oddly, I couldn't seem to find it to link to it. Basically, everyone has their own preference. If that particular agent is turned off by opening lines being dialog, maybe you don't query him. Or you tweak your first line so it isn't dialog, then argue the case for it if he signs you later

Though I doubt any good agent is going to see dialog on the first line and think "nope, reject" without ever reading more. They may not like it as a general rule, but if they were interested enough in the book to ask for pages they're not going to be that short-sighted.

dawn_meadows · May 27, 2009

Thank you both. I did do a search on starting with dialogue but couldn't find anything. I'll check out that thread now.

caitysdad · May 29, 2009

I'd have to say against it and against it by only a fraction. i think if it's a line or two, then you're okay, but i think more than that is asking for trouble. I have lots of chapters that start and are mostly dialogue, but i don't think I would start a novel that way---then again that's just me.

ccarver30 · May 29, 2009

Someone else mentioned this the other day. For me, it is a turnoff but could be persuaded if it was done neatly...

TereLiz · May 29, 2009

I like to start with dialogue, but not exactly a dialogue. Savvy?

Like, if there's an entire dialogue between two or more people, I might get a little lost, especially if they are talking about everyday stuff, ie, stuff that may be useful in characterization, but not advance the plot.

Now, if it's a line of dialogue, followed by some tight pov exposition or inner monologue, then more dialogue, then I usually like the usage, because it lets me know right off who the mc is and why I should care about them. Nothing turns me off faster than wading through two pages of inconsequential dialogue before the action actually starts.

But the dialogue should be used sparingly and to set the scene rather than go off at lengths about the lives of the protagonists or to clumsily relay back story.

I'm sure that starting with a dialogue can be done well, but I don't usually like huge blocks of speech right off the bat simply because I don't know the characters yet, or how they talk or the inflections of their voice. I'm probably going to have to work harder to understand sarcasm or joking because I've never met these people doing the talking.

ccv707 · May 29, 2009

TereLiz said:
But the dialogue should be used sparingly and to set the scene rather than go off at lengths about the lives of the protagonists or to clumsily relay back story.

I have to say that I absolutely disagree. I've heard from many published authors, and seen through personal experience, that an average novel is about 50/50 dialogue/narrative. This isn't the rule, simply an average.

People talk in real life. We talk a lot. Not that everything we say is completely relevant, nor should it be. And no, lengthy monologues that spell everything out to the reader are not to be recommended. That doesn't mean don't write dialogue.

If you know what you're doing, an entire scene can be about a conversation in which we're supposed to be listening to what's not being said. Dialogue gives greater insight into our characters with much more subtlety than most other methods. You say you don't know too much about these characters at the beginning? Listen to what they're saying, what they're not saying, and how they're saying it.

Dialogue isn't something that we should be afraid of, people!

Devil Ledbetter · May 29, 2009

blacbird said:
I believe there's an active thread on this topic already. But, to summarize comments there, you'll find a full spectrum of opinions, pro and con, and if you look at books in all kinds of genres, you'll find plenty that open with dialogue.

caw

Yes, there was a similar thread a couple of days ago.

ccarver30 · May 29, 2009

Apparently we were all IN that other thread too. LOL

Libbie · May 29, 2009

One of my all-time favorite books, Ender's Game, starts with dialogue. Worse, it starts with dialogue between two characters who are totally unidentified; there is nothing but dialogue going on with no hint as to the names or significance of the speaking characters.

But it's a short bit of dialogue, and it's packed with hook.

I think it can be done, but it has to be done well. Any time you break a "rule," be sure you have a darn good reason for breaking it. And be sure you do it with a lot of finesse. An editor or an agent isn't going to turn down a good book that works well. So if you can open a book with dialogue and still intrigue a reader from the get-go, then rock it.

Mr Flibble · May 29, 2009

Were we? I forget

Now, if it's a line of dialogue, followed by some tight pov exposition or inner monologue, then more dialogue, then I usually like the usage, because it lets me know right off who the mc is and why I should care about them. Nothing turns me off faster than wading through two pages of inconsequential dialogue before the action actually starts.

This

My MS's tend to start that way - one line of dialogue that shows the MC's starting problem. Then off to the story.

Bufty · May 30, 2009

Opening with meaningless dialogue is exactly that -meaningless.

If the opening dialogue has a meaning and/or instantly connects the reader to a situation/circumstance/relationship etc., and it works -fine.

The problem arises when rushed opening dialogue is used by the writer who forgets a reader doesn't have the writer's background knowledge about who is talking to whom, when, where or about what.

seun · May 30, 2009

The opening to my first (now trunked) book:

A long moment passes before Tommo gives me an answer. It's not the one I expect.
"Bollocks."

The book is awful, but I still have a lot of time for the opening. It shows a familiarity between these characters, a relationship and suggests the narrator has just said something important - he doesn't get the answer he expects and why the wait before Tommo replies? Like I said, the book is awful, but I still like the opening.

If you can do something with opening with dialogue and do it to serve the story, go for it.

James D. Macdonald · May 30, 2009

"Start with dialogue?" Mary asked. Her fingers drummed on the table beside her computer keyboard.

"I think it's a bad idea," Judy replied. "It's too easy to do badly."

"Yes, but I'd do it well."

Birds flitted outside. Hummingbirds, hovering flower to flower, ignoring the feeders that Ruth had hung beside the windows to lure them nearer.

"That's what you said about starting your novel with a description of the weather," Judy said. "Remember how that turned out?"

"'It was foggy along the coast, highs near fifty with a 40% chance of showers in the afternoon, snow in higher elevations overnight,'" Ruth quoted wistfully. "l really thought I had something."

"You had something, all right," Judy said. "Just what it was, though...."

"What it was, was better than your second-person-present-tense exploration of coming-of-age-in-the-South," Ruth said, annoyed.

"I don't know why that couldn't sell," Judy says. "It's jam-packed with sex and magnolias." She leans forward in her chair, her pert bosom jutting even more noticeably. You turn away, embarrassed, yet oddly drawn to the mystery that her cleavage presents. The scents of honeysuckle and magnolia blend with the odor of high-school-minx-in-heat to make a heady olfactory brew.

"That wasn't exactly what the beta-readers said. Now about starting my novel with dialogue?"

"Do it if you must," Judy said. She poured a heavy shot of bourbon over the remains of the ice in her Old Fashioned glass. "The worst that it could do is suck."

See also:

Basic q: is starting a story with dialogue a no-no?

First line of first chapter: Dialogue? Description?

Starting a novel with dialogue

Are dialogue-driven novels a bad idea?

OK to start a novel with dialogue?

Never Start with Dialogue

Eric San Juan · May 30, 2009

TereLiz said:
I like to start with dialogue, but not exactly a dialogue. Savvy?

I've often used this approach, too, in much the same way IdiotsRUs describes. I like the approach, both as a writer and as a reader. If done well, of course. ANYTHING can be done badly and fall flat on its face.

I don't think I've ever cared for a full-blown conversation opening up a book.

motormind · May 30, 2009

dawn_meadows said:
I can't remember where, but I saw a list of things that turn an agent off.

Who cares about what agents think? Just write as you see fit. If the result is any good you will find an agent and all those idiots who skip it because of silly rules like "don't start with dialogue" or whatever lose out. It's that smple.

ccarver30 · May 30, 2009

&^%$ I just realized that my novel Stone and Glass starts with someone swearing. LMAO It's only one word though and she says it to herself- does that count as dialogue?

RunawayScribe · May 30, 2009

Write what the story needs. What works for one won't work for another. Make it the best it can be, and THEN worry about an agent. I'm assuming agents are humans with various preferences just like the rest of us, so if it's well done and appropriate, I wouldn't worry too much.

ccarver30 · May 30, 2009

If they turn it down for THAT I don't think they know their job very well. Just my 2 cents.

RunawayScribe · May 30, 2009

I honestly don't get it - do people open books, read one line and go "AHA! Dialogue! The mark of the talentless!" and then:

A) Slam it shut, or
B) Not bother with the rest of it?

I get the point of a lot of technique guidelines, but some of them - like this - seem silly to me.

ccv707 · May 30, 2009

RunawayScribe said:
Write what the story needs. What works for one won't work for another.

Thank you. I don't understand why some of these questions end up here. Write the story the way you believe it should be written, and worry about the rest later.

Wark · May 30, 2009

Elizabeth swore to herself he would never stop her again. She burned with the desire to start a book with dialog even more. She covered her eyes with her hands as tears began to flow. Her opportunity vanished. The book had started.

"Bollocks."

blacbird · May 30, 2009

For a reader, the single problem in opening with a line of dialogue is lack of context. If the line of dialogue is relatively short, and you can establish context (scene, characters, situation) quickly after, I don't see a problem. But I don't think you can successfully open with a long stretch of dialogue, no matter how witty or clever, without establishing context somehow.

caw

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