Addicted to the PA threads

When I was a lowly lurker I would stop at first to see what the heck happened on the PA threads, so no, I completely get it!

Yep, me too. The PA threads were how I found AW; I lurked for a good year, reading the entire old NEPAT at night when my baby was up, before I finally registered.

And then I was too scared to post in the PA threads for months.

Broadswordbabe said:

I wouldn't slow down passing an accident to try and get a glimpse of the blood. I don't watch reality TV where people are constantly, miserably humiliated. So what is it about PA, and its victims, that is so unbearably compelling?

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For me, three reasons.

First, PA ensnares far more victims than, for instance, a vanity press like Tate. Tate might charge $4000 a pop, but that means it has correspondingly fewer "happy authors". PA has its claws in so many writers that you can't help reading about them in the newspaper, encountering them on this board (usually after they've been disillusioned) and even knowing them IRL, which has happened to a few people here.

Second, PA is a smart scam. The no-money-upfront and the dollar-advance fig leaf put it ahead of other deceptive vanity presses right away. Life imitates art that way - smart antagonists tend to be more compelling.

Lastly, there's the PAMB, which IMO works both for and against PA. Sure, it reels in newbies, then keeps them happy and quiet. But it also provides plenty of information on how desperate they are, how far they go in trying to promote their books and how little they gain either professionally or financially. And most of all, it's like an ongoing social psychology experiment, a blog that keeps getting updated with new, bizarre and fascinating stuff. It's your one-stop-shop for trainwrecks.

But then again, I found AW thanks to the PA threads, so I understand.

I'm another who lurked and read the PA threads for a while before registering. Close to a year, actually. It started when I was researching submitting my first book and I was looking into scams and stuff and, of course, ended up hearing about PA being the biggest of all. I still read the PA threads frequently, not every day but at least a couple times a week I log in to see what's up. There's something morbidly fascinating about the whole affair, and the naivete or, in some cases, willing blindness of the PAMBers.

Fae

I, too, came to AW through the PA threads. Because it WAS like a train-wreck I couldn't look away from.

My addiction to the PA threads has waned a bit, but I still come in every once in a while to see what's going on.

And, as you saw the other day, I'm right there to start a new thread when I stumble across something new and train-wrecky about PA.

Susan G.

I found AW through another blog that was discussing PA. Lurked for a while, and then here I am!

I found AW for another scam artist in Bewares and Background Checks: WLA. I think someone over there repped me and said, "Well, at least you didn't pass on an agent and go with PA," which led me to the PA boards.

I am also hooked, and trying to learn all I can to keep other authors away from PA.

I peek in on PAMB about twice a week (or when someone on AW has a link to a thread there). Most of the time I feel like Jersey, wanting to set my hair on fire after reading some of the posts. I get upset that I can't respond and say "No! No!"

Me too! I'd never heard of PA before coming here and now I always read these boards, especially the ones about the PAMB. It's the tone of some of the "Published Authors!" that I find absolutely unbelievable and oddly riveting. Self-righteous smugness coupled with near-illiteracy. I simply can't help myself. (I feel so dirty.)

I hadn't heard of PA until I read of it on AW. I recall the "bstevens" (I hesitate to use a user name, but the thread title was some generic "Why I think PA is so great") thread showed up when I was new here, and that author was a great example of a "True Believer" (title of a relevant book by Eric Hoffer). While the disillussioned certainly need and deserve our support, I find the believers more fascinating as "case studies."

It's free drama (and the best kind, that which doesn't involve me personally!) - the most it costs is seeing the banner ads AW puts up. It's undoubtedly good fodder for writing fiction...

What quickly struck me was how much PA was based on hyped-up and unwarranted belief that signing with PA is the only reasonable way for a new author to succeed. I'd seen that sort of thing before when studying critical writings about Amway, Herbalife and other multilevel marketing groups (and still other groups). The group tells the prospect "the odds are loaded against you, and we are the only chance you have of success" and couches that idea in so many different ways and with enough nuggets of truth ("It's not just us/PA saying this, ask anyone - most people who write books NEVER get published") that a lot of people fall for it. They tell authors in so many ways how special they are that their book has been accepted for publication, but they don't let on that they publish virtually EVERY submission.

I've also noted how the growth and longevity of such a group is based on social Darwinism: The "better" (more plausible) and more subtle the group's lies misinformation, the more members it will attract, the larger it will grow and the longer it will last.

I rarely look at PAMB (reading such cluelessness engendered by such evil-minded people just enrages me too much), but I've seen enough.

PA has this down pretty well - convince your members you treat them like royalty, but actually treat them like crap. It's a mind-f***.

While I hadn't heard of PublishAmerica before, the techniques they use are all too familiar...now to copy/paste this as another snippet for my memoir...

I often wonder what flavor Kool-Aid the three stooges pass around.

Broadswordbabe said:

I have a confession to make.

Every time I log on to AW, I have to look at the PA threads, and see what horrible wreckage is happening now.

<snip>

Does anyone else have this problem?

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<raises hand> I do. I check out these threads first every time I log in. It's fascinating to watch, but it's educational, too. Every time someone refutes the latest PA lunacy, I learn more about professional publishing standards and practices.

I'm another one who found AW because of links to the the NEPAT. Some PA drama was in full swing when I first started looking for good writing sites and AW kept getting mentioned, so I came to check it out. I don't visit those other sites much anymore. AW was exactly what I was looking for. I wonder if PA realizes how much ithey help lead people here, even if their authors are banned for mentioning it.

stormie said:

I often wonder what flavor Kool-Aid the three stooges pass around.

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I just read that as "the three stages of Kool-Aid."

Must have more coffee. Then must ponder that phrase. There's a story there somewhere.

The first stage: This Kool-Aid is sweet

The Second stage: May I have some more, please? That's the bestest Kool-Aid ever

Third stege: **in monotone** We didn't pay to be published with PA. We didn't pay to be published with PA. We didn't pay to be published with PA.

Whew. So I'm not the only one who got hooked on AW through the NEPAT thread.

Unfortunately, I was sucked in by PA but I found AW because of the PA threads.

I don't read the PA posts as often as I used to because it makes me sick to my stomach.
I hate reading quotes from the PAMB because I can't reply to them...but it's probably just as well because you can't reason with people who have their heads in the clouds. (I know, I used to be one of them.)

I just hope they don't get hurt too badly before they figure it out.

I found out more about how PA operates when somebody on the forums at National Novel Writing Month posted a message saying she'd been picked up by PA, and somebody posted a link to AW's NEPAT thread to let know she needed to be careful. (Of course, the guy got the standard "I bet you've never been published, you jelose toady bug!" speech.)

I'd seen PA's website before, however, and three things turned me off from ever considering them:
1) The crappy layout and design of the site, in general, struck me as amateurish.
b: "They only pay ONE LOUSY <garbled in transmission>ING DOLLAR FOR AN ADVANCE? To hell with that noise. My writing's worth much more than that, then kew."
III. The cover art of the books in the online store. Oy.

Queen of Swords said:

Lastly, there's the PAMB, which IMO works both for and against PA. Sure, it reels in newbies, then keeps them happy and quiet. But it also provides plenty of information on how desperate they are, how far they go in trying to promote their books and how little they gain either professionally or financially. And most of all, it's like an ongoing social psychology experiment, a blog that keeps getting updated with new, bizarre and fascinating stuff. It's your one-stop-shop for trainwrecks.

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The PAMB is something PA needs to have, because otherwise PA authors would create some other major area to hang out in, one not moderated censored by PA. As the PA management learned from the PA convention, it is a bad idea to let PA authors compare notes freely. People start thinking too much. The truth might come out.

Scribhneoir said:

<raises hand> I do. I check out these threads first every time I log in. It's fascinating to watch, but it's educational, too. Every time someone refutes the latest PA lunacy, I learn more about professional publishing standards and practices.

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This is one of the reasons I tune in. Particularly, I keep a watch for publicity techniques that are common among PA authors. I know someday I'll be promoting a real book, and I dread getting sucked into a whirlwind of useless publicity attempts (like some of those I did with my own, non-PA, vanity-published book). PA authors are drawn toward the publicity techniques of those who are beaten down and desperate. Obviously, anything that smacks of PA-style publicity is something I need to avoid.

Wow, do we have enough members for a club of 'I found AW via PA'? I was researching publishers right about the time of Atlanta Nights, and came to AW through Making Light. I was lucky enough to have, several years before, been given a copy of A.C. Crispin's 'How Much Did It Cost You?' flyer, so I had some background already.
For a couple of months I just read through NEPAT and the B&B threads, before giving in and becoming an AW member. I'm not sure it's as much train-wreck as it is soap opera - the triumph of hope over (other people's) experience, the character's conviction that this time it will work, against all the odds.
-Barbara

jamiehall said:

Obviously, anything that smacks of PA-style publicity is something I need to avoid.

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You're kidding! For my next book I am totally going to make a lollipop tree and a tablecloth!

stormie said:

I often wonder what flavor Kool-Aid the three stooges pass around.

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Now you know.

The real problem with me and a lollipop tree would be the fact that I'd probably end up eating it....

ETA - Now I have this sort of LOLCats thing in my head - "I made youz a lolypop tree - but Iz eated it..."

I ruin more keyboards around this place...