which/that

Horseshoes · Jul 18, 2008

I didn't write this sentence, but I don't like it.

"She cannot be a good teacher if she is passive to the possibilities which method X provides."

But maybe one of my problems with this sentence is the "which"--which/that are not a grammar strength of mine. So, let me start with asking: Is "which" correct here?

And, thanks for your help.

jennifer75 · Jul 18, 2008

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. I dunno.

jennifer75 · Jul 18, 2008

Horseshoes said:
"She cannot be a good teacher if she is passive to the possibilities IN which method X provides."

???

cyates · Jul 18, 2008

I think 'that' would sound better, but I don't know if it's right. It could also have gone

She cannot be a good teacher if she is passive to the possibilities method X provides.

or even

She cannot be a good teacher if she is passive to the possibilities provided by method X.

Bufty · Jul 18, 2008

I'd rewrite the whole sentence in plain English and 'passive' is the wrong verb.

For interest, re the usual type of confusion over which/that -

'Which' adds something. Bring me the laundry basket, which is full of clothes. (ie there's only one basket and it's full of clothes.) And note the comma.

'That' identifies. Bring me the laundry basket that is full of clothes. (ie there's more than one basket but the one I want is identified as the one full of clothes.) No comma.

That's open to contradiction if anyone knows otherwise.

veronie · Jul 18, 2008

"That" would be correct. It's an issue of essential versus nonessential clauses.

We are not talking about all possibilities. We are talking about the possibilities "that" method X provides.

The last clause is essential to the meaning of the first clause, so you would use "that" and no comma. If it were a nonessential clause, you would use "which," preceded by a comma.

Kalyke · Jul 19, 2008

They are relative pronouns. That is restrictive (information is not critical to understanding the sentence), Which is nonrestrictive (the information is critical to understanding the sentence). Sorry to say, but there are distinct rules for the usage of these words. It is not about how it sounds.

Which is also preceded by a comma.

http://grammar.uoregon.edu/pronouns/relative.html
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/645/01/

Oberon · Jul 19, 2008

"Which is also preceded by a comma." Unless it starts the sentence: "Which laundry basket do you want? Do you want that laundry basket? In the sentence in question it works better without either which or that. "That" seems to be a dirty word here at AW.

Bufty · Jul 19, 2008

It's not a dirty word - it's simply grossly overused by many folk who don't twig they are doing so.

I read a submission in SYW yesterday with eight 'that' in the opening five lines and it stands out the same as anything else overused or sloppy.

veronie · Jul 19, 2008

Oberon said:
"Which is also preceded by a comma." Unless it starts the sentence.

You can't start a sentence with a comma? Suddenly, my world has turned upside down.

Orientalist · Jul 20, 2008

Horseshoes said:
if she is passive to the possibilities

This is the really smelly part. I think if you clean it up, you'll know what to do with the rest of the sentence.

which/that

Horseshoes

lisapreston.com

jennifer75

SupahStah!

jennifer75

SupahStah!

cyates

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

veronie

practical experience, FTW

Kalyke

Oberon

Bufty

Where have the last ten years gone?

veronie

practical experience, FTW

Orientalist