[Publisher] Black Rose Writing (Reagan Rothe)

The big houses won't look at you without an agent.

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In publishing things are reversed--you start at the top with the biggest house you can find and work your way down.

By the time you get to operations like BR (no advance), you start over again, either with a fresh MS or with rewrites in place. I promise, they won't remember your first effort.

And they WILL look at unagented submissions if it is in their guidelines.

Mine sold right off the slush pile, landing me a 6-book deal. Not many writers sell their first book, either.

Yes, I did have 2 books finished, sequels to the first. The *other* question the editor asked: "Have you ever sold anything else?" I'd sold a few pieces to a hobby magazine. She liked that, too.

If they want you to have an agent it is not impossible. Agents read queries and proposals every day. So you look up writers who do similar stuff, see if they mention their agent or ask if they can recommend one.

I got my first agent by asking a writer friend about hers, got my second agent the same way when the first ceased to be a good fit.

Remember the agent works for you, is your advocate in business, and no agent that I know of will waste time subbing work to places like Black Rose. There's just no real money in it for either of you.

(To wrest the topic back on track.)

Hey Ray....I think one of the biggest mistakes you could make would be to not come here regularly...though I've agreed and disagreed with several things here and there, one thing that's exceptionally clear to me is that nobody here speaks their mind with the intent of crushing anyone's hopes, but are here to throw out some guidance and advice to young and old authors.
Glad you found your way to the board! I appreciate the good words, and I'm still plugging away, working on my third book now, still doing some signings and whatnots as I look to improvemy craft enough to hit a more commercial arena in the times to come...

Best of luck in your work! And don't worry too much about the rejections...I've kind of felt my through a system with them...

If you don't hear from them, that sucks...
If you get a form letter, you're moving the right way...
If they take the time to write a personalized rejection note for you, you're definitely on the right track...
Most agents / publishers get probably hundreds of submissions a month, so if they actually take the time to write a personalized note to you to accompany a rejection, that's a positive thing more or less.

Keep on trucking, and keep an eye on these boards for sure! They may not pull punches, but you have to respect people that are looking out for new writers as strongly as these fine folks....

Stands back in awe on reading this discussion!!

Hello all! So I too am a new user of this forum site. My name is Rachel, and I too nearly got caught up with BRW. However, I too found this thread in just the nick of time. I found BRW through the 2010 Guide to Literary Agents, and so I figured they must be legit. Now that I have read all the posts here, I am greatly astonished that GLA even included them. Thank you for all of your posts. They have been greatly informative, and have saved me a world of headaches. BTW, best of luck on your continued publishing ventures, JephC!

Welcome to the board, Rachel, and I'm glad you found what you needed to make a choice about BRW.

It's best to use more than one source of information when you're looking into publishers or literary agents. You might also want to check the publisher's or agent's listing on Preditors and Editors.

Thank you for the advice! I'll be sure to look into it.

Oh yeah. When I first started out subbing my first book, I read about a publisher in the then-current Writer's Market book. I contacted them and they immediately sent me a folder filled with forms, etc. Something didn't seem right and I looked them up on Preditors and Editors. Bingo--they were a vanity press.

So, yeah, always cross-reference.

Hello everyone! I'm Amanda, and I'm also a new user to AbsoluteWrite.

I found this site while I was doing a Google search looking for information about Black Rose Writing. I found that publisher in 2010 Writer's Market, and although the website alarmed me with its lack of professionalism, I talked myself into submitting just to see what would happen.

Of course, a month later, I got the email asking me how many copies I would buy pre-release. I thought this seemed weird since he hadn't actually told me he was going to publish my novel, and after reading this entire thread, I knew I had to say no.

I don't think vanity publishing is inherently a bad thing, and I don't fault anyone who chooses to go with that. It is the perfect fit for some, but it wasn't what I was looking for. I do have a problem with him pretending to be a traditional publisher, and then revealing his real intentions only after he has lured in someone with the idea of publication. His website is not upfront about the author's total responsibility to market the book, nor does it explain that the majority of distribution is the author's task.

In my response to Mr. Rothe, I asked him why the first thing he asked for after a month's silence was my money, and especially why he was discussing this before offering a contract. I concluded by officially withdrawing my submission. He didn't respond to any of my questions or concerns, instead saying "It's amazing that we have 100% positive feedback from our authors!" and giving me a goodbye.

I felt cheated. This was the first positive response from a publisher, and now I feel like that interest in my book is cheap. I never would have submitted it if he was forthcoming about how his publishing really works. Thankfully I found this forum in time, and I hope my experience can help someone else realize what they're getting in to before it's too late.

I especially appreciated the advice Gillhoughly provided throughout this whole conversation. I admit that I'm new at this, but I do want to become a paid author, and I'm already a lot wiser thanks to this thread. I am taking that advice, and starting back at the top. I believe in my work and I plan to see it in print on a wide scale -- without me buying it myself or having to "generate local leads" as my only resource.

Thanks for the help Gillhoughly, and everyone else who has shown the difference between successful publishers and the bottom-feeders!

Hi Amanda! As you've probably already read, I found BRW through the 2010 Guide to Literary Agents. The one difference between me and others on this site is that I didn't try going to them just once, but twice. When I received the message from them the first time about how many author copies I wanted to purchase, I told them that I didn't have any money yet, but maybe later. That was last year with my first book. Right after that, they sent me a rejection. This year I was twice dumb, as I tried them again with another one. I was immediately asked to send in my manuscript. But my sister felt suspicious about this, and upon her urging, I checked out this forum. I'm a much more enlightened writer now, thank God, but I do feel your pain about wondering if the interest in your book is cheap. Don't ever believe that! A good way to see if you are on the right track is to see if the queried agent sent a personal message with his/her rejection. Keep up the writing, and don't give up. I have yet to be published, but I'm not yet ready to throw in the towel. Best of luck to you!

Mandiloo322 said:

I felt cheated. This was the first positive response from a publisher, and now I feel like that interest in my book is cheap.

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The flip side of this is that a fee-based publisher will as happily publish an excellent book as a poor one. In other words, Black Rose's offer doesn't say anything at all about the quality of your work.

Thanks for posting, and keep going--and listen to your gut. Your initial instincts about Black Rose were dead-on.

- Victoria

black rose

It's a bit late in the game, but I recently withdrew my work from consideration with Black Rose after reading these posts. Mr Rothe emailed me back, wanting to know why, and I told him I was epublishing. He sent a kind of snooty response:

"Missing out on all of our distribution and promotional efforts as well as advice."

A tad unprofessional, no?

Thanks to everyone who posted and let me know about BR

Stick around! AW is a great place. Glad you were able to withdraw your work from them.

Jason58A:
Missing out on all of our distribution and promotional efforts as well as advice

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Given what Black Rose's distribution and promotion efforts actually seem to amount to, I somehow doubt that you're missing out.

Reagan Rothe was one of those people who was unfortunately suckered by PA. Unfortunately he then decided that this qualified him to set up his own publishing company. I'd therefore suggest that his advice is worth jack shit.

MM

Surprise update! Mr Rothe just sent me a contract along with a "voluntary order agreement." He did this AFTER I WITHDREW MY MANUSCRIPT FROM CONSIDERATION A WEEK AGO.

I understand from these forums that Mr Rothe has offered contracts without the order form agreement, so I'm a little offended. Anyone interested in seeing the contract or the attached order form can message me, I'd be happy to show you.

You know, I 'skimmingly' read this thread and can't find the names of JephC's books or where they can be reviewed, or where you can read excerpts, etc. I'd look on amazon, but I don't know his author's name.

Just wonder what the titles are, is all.

Am all serious here btw.

(Also searched the BR site and don't see any names that match up to JephC, but of course he might use a different name or pseudonym, etc.)

jaksen: This thread wasn't meant to be used as a marketing one, hence why I haven't bothered mentioning my book title or anything of the like. I haven't been using this as a way to market my book, but rather just discussing what the publishing process was like for me.

Thank you for your response here, and in pm.

Appreciated.

Jason58A said:

Surprise update! Mr Rothe just sent me a contract along with a "voluntary order agreement." He did this AFTER I WITHDREW MY MANUSCRIPT FROM CONSIDERATION A WEEK AGO.

I understand from these forums that Mr Rothe has offered contracts without the order form agreement, so I'm a little offended. Anyone interested in seeing the contract or the attached order form can message me, I'd be happy to show you.

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You might want to send copies to Victoria Strauss.

Nancy

Jason58A said:

It's a bit late in the game, but I recently withdrew my work from consideration with Black Rose after reading these posts. Mr Rothe emailed me back, wanting to know why, and I told him I was epublishing. He sent a kind of snooty response:

"Missing out on all of our distribution and promotional efforts as well as advice."

A tad unprofessional, no?

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Poor Mr. Rothe. His business model is being undercut by epublishers who do less, charge less, and have fewer pretensions. It must feel awful to hit the downhill slide when you're already a scammer.

Wow thank you for this thread. I just struck them off my list of potential people to send my manuscript to once it's complete. I spent last night and this morning reading this thread and there is so much valuable information. Thank you everyone.

good on you firelux

Hello everyone. Just joined the site but I've been reading thread on BR because I too sent Mr. Rothe my manuscript at his request. I didn't think of doing a search on him until after the fact. Boy am I glad I did. Actually, I'm also kind of bummed that I did. Like a previous post, I also was on cloud nine the day he requested my MS. Till then, had nothing but a few rejection letters. Some included a few encouraging comments but no one had requested the MS till now. Oh well. I am anxious now to see what happens next. Will I get a contract offer? Will I get a request to purchase my own books? Guess I'll wait and see and keep everyone posted. Looks like I have joined the perfect site. I've seen lots of good info and advice here so I'm glad for that.

Stick around, JoeMama! There's tons of useful information here.

Glad you're here. A lot of good info here at AW. Welcome

I'm almost positive that BR will want to get you under contract!

If you're over 18 and have a credit card, they will be delighted to have you signed on. After all, you'll probably be their best customer for book sales.

Don't let it faze you. Hang out here on AW, make friends, read comments, learn.

Check out the "Learn Writing with Uncle Jim thread--which is the best! I've been selling professionally since the 80s and I STILL learn something new on that one every day.

When you're ready, post 5 pages on the "Share Your Work" forum and get feedback from other writers. Or ask for a beta reader to see the whole book.

Until I got feedback I didn't know what needed to be fixed on my book that kept it from selling. After feedback--and another rewrite--it sold.

Good luck!