Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

KimJo · Jun 7, 2005

I had a character in my YA fantasy series who I was sure was going to die in book 5. He survived. I thought he was going to die in book 7. Survived again. I was 100% sure he was going to die in book 10, the last one of the series. Nope. Stubborn little bugger.

Liam Jackson · Jun 7, 2005

One possible solution is to kill him (if that truly seems the best route) but use the char in a prequel story(s). Maybe a story that features/focuses on his special qualities, etc...

maestrowork · Jun 7, 2005

Pencilone said:
He became special to me somehow. My heart aches to kill him.

That's not a good enough reason to keep him. I've killed quite a few characters even though I'm fond of them.

If the characters says, "I don't know, kill me or not, it's your choice" then you need to do what makes the story the strongest. If the story is strong either way, then flip a coin.

You can also bring the character back. A Prequel? A spin-off? A guest appearance in an alternate universe? And if the book doesn't sell or if the character is not special to your READERS, then the point is moot. All it is is another way for the author to procrastinate.

astonwest · Jun 7, 2005

KimJo said:
I had a character in my YA fantasy series who I was sure was going to die in book 5. He survived. I thought he was going to die in book 7. Survived again. I was 100% sure he was going to die in book 10, the last one of the series. Nope. Stubborn little bugger.

I had the opposite problem...had a character who I thought would make it to the end of the book for a showdown with the MC...but he ended up dead by mid-book...stupid fool...sigh.

oswann · Jun 7, 2005

I killed off everyone and realized I was only in chapter four. Damn it.

Os.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Do the readers care about the character?

=============

You can always bring the character back in another book, but with a different name and a wig.

Pencilone · Jun 7, 2005

Yes, the reader cares about him. The hero protects him sacrificing all his other friends. I hope the reader will be heartbroken when he's going to die.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Then do whatever is best for your story.

====================

When you kill characters ... it's okay. It's like in the movies -- when they kill a character they don't kill the actor. He can appear in another film.

===================

While no one has managed to define Science Fiction or Fantasy ... RWA has defined Romance. Here it is:

http://www.rwanational.org/press_releases/rwa_defines_romance.htm

RWA Defines the Romance Novel

(HOUSTON, TX) -- Romance Writers of America has outlined two elements -- a central love story and an emotionally satisfying ending -- as the crux of their association’s official definition of a romance novel.

"There’s no doubt about it, when you call a book a ‘romance’ it gets attention," says RWA President Tara Taylor Quinn. "But there are so many books promoted as ‘romances’ or ‘love stories,’ readers, writers and reporters who are considering our industry statistics are confused as to what we mean. We see new titles released every month -- from non-fiction how-to manuals to women’s fiction -- that are being touted as ‘a new romance’ or a ‘timeless love story.’ Only a percentage are actually romances. Many ‘relationship’ novels come close to being a romance in our sense of the word, but in the end they don’t meet the expectations our readers hold about the genre of romance. They are not the same, and it’s confusing.

"In short, we found ourselves needing to officially define what a romance novel really is," Quinn says.

According to RWA’s official definition, a romance is a book wherein the love story is the main focus of the novel, and the end of the book is emotionally satisfying.

Jennifer Crusie, a best-selling romance author and member of the RWA committee that wrote the official definition, says the central-love-story aspect of the definition means "the main plot of the romance must concern two people falling in love and struggling to make the relationship work.

"The conflict in the book centers on the love story.

"The climax in the book resolves the love story.

"A writer is welcome to as many subplots as she likes as long as the relationship conflict is the main story," says Crusie.

This aspect of the definition rules out books that contain a romance subplot, but a main focus of -- just to name a few -- mystery, social or business struggle of some sort, or intrigue. A true romance novel must have the love story as the main focus of the book. Things like mystery, intrigue, and other action may, and often do, appear as secondary plots in romance novels.

"Romance novels end in a way that makes the reader feel good," says Crusie of the second aspect of the romance-novel definition, the emotionally optimistic ending. "Romance novels are based on the idea of an innate emotional justice -- the notion that good people in the world are rewarded and evil people are punished. In a romance, the lovers who risk and struggle for each other and their relationship are rewarded with emotional justice and unconditional love," Crusie says.

This part of the definition excludes the type of novels that are most often incorrectly considered to be romances: love stories with unhappy endings. Bittersweet endings, like the conclusion to the love story in the film Titanic, for example, or the end of the novel Bridges of Madison County, prevent otherwise love-story focused books from being true romances.

"RWA established a simple and straight forward acid test for classifying a book as a popular romance novel. Our central-love-story/emotionally-satisfying-ending criteria will allow writers, readers, and other interested parties to fully understand what RWA means when it discusses ‘the romance novel,’ and all the statistics and demographics that refer to it," Quinn says.

The members of Romance Writers of America -- an 9,000-member strong writers association -- write the romance novels that represent 55% of all mass-market paperback fiction purchased in the United States, and that generate $1 billion per year in sales.

Just so you know.

Kate StAmour · Jun 7, 2005

RWA

I am considering attending the conference this year, if it isn't too late to get in, that is. My only concern is that I'm not sure I'll have a polished MS by conference time. What I am wondering is, is it worth it to attend? I'm sure that there will be so much more going on there than pitching, but I don't want to go and feel like I am wasting the time of "important" people. Does that make any sense?

Kate

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Kate -- go, even if you don't pitch anything. Keep your eyes and ears open. Be the best listener in the room.

Why would you want to cut yourself off from your colleagues, from networking and information?

DaveKuzminski · Jun 7, 2005

Ah, all this talk about killing characters brings up a problem that I'm sure writers have faced before. At the moment, I'm trying to figure out who is supposed to die to provide the excuse for a conflict between a loose coalition of city states and a powerful empire. I suspect it will be someone I least expect.

That happened to me before when I had two small boats go up against a raider. They managed to fight the raider to a standstill, but lost all but two crew members and one junior officer in doing so. That was all the more unexpected because none of them were main characters at that point, but they went on to become main characters.

Kate StAmour · Jun 7, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
Kate -- go, even if you don't pitch anything. Keep your eyes and ears open. Be the best listener in the room.

Why would you want to cut yourself off from your colleagues, from networking and information?

Good question, and sage advice. I have contacted my local chapter for more details. Thank you!

Kate

Roger J Carlson · Jun 7, 2005

Kate StAmour said:
I am considering attending the conference this year, if it isn't too late to get in, that is. My only concern is that I'm not sure I'll have a polished MS by conference time. What I am wondering is, is it worth it to attend? I'm sure that there will be so much more going on there than pitching, but I don't want to go and feel like I am wasting the time of "important" people. Does that make any sense?

Kate

I had similar questions about attending this year's Book Expo in New York. As an unpublished writer, the Expo isn't even for me. It's for publishers and booksellers. Still, I had the opportunity to go and I went. At the very least, I figured that I'd learn more about how the publishing industry works.

I talked to a LOT of nice people. I discovered that publishers are mostly just plain folks and are happy to talk to you about what they do, regardless of who you are. I talked to them about what they are publishing and what they see coming in the future.

But the BEST thing happened when I talked to a very nice lady at TOR Books. I told her that I don't see any juvenile science fiction. Fantasy, suspense, thriller, sure -- but no SF. The lady introduced me to the publisher of their Young Adult SF/Fantasy imprint. The publisher said one of the problems was a lack of good YA SF manuscripts. When I said I had written one, she asked me to send it to her -- Requested by her! WHOOPEEE!

Granted, this is an unusual circumstance and won't apply to everybody. And I'm NOT suggesting you go to Book Expo and hawk your books. That wasn't my intention when I went. But the point is that you never know what connections you are going to make until you get out there and make some. You won't do it sitting at home.

Kate StAmour · Jun 7, 2005

Roger J Carlson said:
But the BEST thing happened when I talked to a very nice lady at TOR Books. I told her that I don't see any juvenile science fiction. Fantasy, suspense, thriller, sure -- but no SF. The lady introduced me to the publisher of their Young Adult SF/Fantasy imprint. The publisher said one of the problems was a lack of good YA SF manuscripts. When I said I had written one, she asked me to send it to her -- Requested by her! WHOOPEEE!

.

WOW!! Thank you for sharing your inspirational story!

Nangleator · Jun 7, 2005

Pencilone said:
...My heart aches to kill him.

Perhaps it's best to choose the course that evokes more emotion. Maybe that's a foolproof indicator.

Shouldn't we be kicking the reader's heart around? (As long as we kiss it and make it better by the end of the book.) Of course, that involves beating up on our own hearts, too.

In science fiction, it's probably also a good idea to spend some time on the reader's brain. Not kicking it around, but massaging it and feeding it lovely little ideas.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Since you mention Tor and the BEA, here's an After Action Report (complete with Giant Weiner costume).

http://nielsenhayden.com/makinglight/archives/006391.html#006391

scribbler1382 · Jun 7, 2005

Nangleator said:
Perhaps it's best to choose the course that evokes more emotion. Maybe that's a foolproof indicator.

Shouldn't we be kicking the reader's heart around? (As long as we kiss it and make it better by the end of the book.) Of course, that involves beating up on our own hearts, too.

In science fiction, it's probably also a good idea to spend some time on the reader's brain. Not kicking it around, but massaging it and feeding it lovely little ideas.

Exactly. If the writer doesn't care about a character they kill, then why on earth would the reader?

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Roger J Carlson said:
When I said I had written one, she asked me to send it to her -- Requested by her! WHOOPEEE!

I presume you've aready sent off the manuscript, with the cover letter quoting this conversation, yes?

Roger J Carlson · Jun 7, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
I presume you've aready sent off the manuscript, with the cover letter quoting this conversation, yes?

Why no. Do you think I should? <GRIN>

Yes, of course I did! I had a copy of the manuscript at the show with me. I almost sent that off, but I decided to spend some time writing the very best cover letter I could. And boy did I agonize over it. Then I had several people read it and give me their opinions.

I kept the verbage to a minimum. I reminded her of our conversation, said some nice things about the friendly people at TOR (all perfectly true, by the way), gave her the length of the story, and finished with multiple ways to reach me.

The Post Office said she should get it by Wednesday. That's probably best anyway, since she may have stuff to clean up after the show.

Now the agony begins!

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Roger J Carlson said:
Now the agony begins!

No, my friend. Now you forget all about that manuscript and start writing your next book.

(If you haven't already compiled a list of which agents you'd like to be represented by, though, now's the time....)

Roger J Carlson · Jun 7, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
No, my friend. Now you forget all about that manuscript and start writing your next book.

Oh, I have. I've got the first draft of a 125,000 word fantasy finished that I'm currently trying to whittle down to 100,000 words. I've also written an outline and several chapters of a sequel to the first book, just in case they ask.

James D. Macdonald said:
(If you haven't already compiled a list of which agents you'd like to be represented by, though, now's the time....)

Interestly, on the day I mailed the manuscript, I got a rejection from an agent. She said the story had possibilites, but wasn't for her and she was too busy and good luck with the next agent. Feeling just a tad petty, I wrote back and told her about Tor asking for the manuscript and so I probably won't need representation and thanks anyway.

But I realize I DO need an agent if they offer something. I'm not really sure whom to ask. Some top-flight agents have rejected it. I don't really feel like asking them again now. Should I swallow my pique and ask them anyway? Or should I find someone who hasn't rejected it?

HConn · Jun 7, 2005

Pencilone, be very wary of how you handle end-of-book revelations. If your book is written in such a way that you could have the revelation or not, then the revelation isn't set up. You would have to go back through the book and set up the big reveal so that it doesn't come out of left field.

Roger J Carlson · Jun 7, 2005

Agents

Oh, and another question. Assuming I have an offer from the publisher (a big if), is it appropriate to call agents? Or should I write letters with a SASE and all? What about email?

Thanks.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 7, 2005

Roger J Carlson said:
Oh, and another question. Assuming I have an offer from the publisher (a big if), is it appropriate to call agents? Or should I write letters with a SASE and all? What about email?

Thanks.

Beware pique. It doesn't have a place in this business.

And yes, when you get an offer, then a telephone call is appropriate.

Start with the best on your list, even if they already told you "not interested." You've just gone into a new inning.

HConn · Jun 7, 2005

The String

I've been thinking about something I visualize as a string. It's the line of words I lay on the page as I write.

Reading and writing is very linear, and I've been trying to think of the best way to take advantage of that. I've been looking at books as a long string of words. How best to build one event on another. How best to give the impression of hte real world, where many things can happen at once, while in a book it's

one

word

after

another.

The best I can do for the latter is prioritize for the character, mentioning the things they care about most before anything else.

For the former, I'm not sure how to analyze it. There must be a simple way to think about the reader, and the ways to draw the reader along the string.

I'm just putting some ideas out there to see what echoes I get. I don't have any specific questions or assertions.

And I'm not procrastinating, honest. I'm getting my pages done every week.

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Outside the box, with the werewolves

Heathen Horde Elder

Fear the Death Ray

2 WIP? A glutton for punishment

Grumpy

Your Genial Uncle

Muse Lover

Your Genial Uncle

Woooo Chaaaa!

Your Genial Uncle

Preditors & Editors

Woooo Chaaaa!

Moderator In Name Only

Woooo Chaaaa!

Rep Point Whore

Your Genial Uncle

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

Your Genial Uncle

Moderator In Name Only

Your Genial Uncle

Moderator In Name Only

Whore for genre

Moderator In Name Only

Your Genial Uncle

Whore for genre