Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Liam Jackson · Jun 5, 2005

Nice to see you back, H. Hope you enjoy the conference.

scribbler1382 · Jun 5, 2005

Dawno said:
#2 The comparison to The Da Vinci Code: if you liked The Da Vinci Code you'll love The Historian. Again there's an assumed audience of 17 million + readers being primed to buy this book.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I missed that the first time. The book is called "The Historian"? IMO, that thing's going to sit on the shelves longer than organic vegetables in a candy store.

There was another book out right after Brown's that sort of tackled the same arena called The Codex, by Lev Grossman. Very nice book, but no where near the numbers of Brown's (Lord, what is?) "Codex" is just not as enticing as a title with both "Da Vinci" and "Code" in it, IMO. Of course, the book itself, content, slant, etc. is what keeps things going, but you need to get that thing off the shelf for people to read it and start the word of mouth. The title "The Historian" starts people's mouths moving, all right, in a yawn.

Just my .02 cents.

Christine N. · Jun 5, 2005

Ah, but people are already talking about it, her publisher is probably going to pay for the "good spot" in the stores. Buzz is biz, my friend.

Much like Jonathan Strange, I'd bet people anticipate the release and pre-order the book.

I can't figure out Dan Brown. I like the DVC, but it was a rehash of Angels and Demons. I still can't figure out if he became a better writer, got a better editor, or snagged a better agent.

Ken Schneider · Jun 5, 2005

? I am under the impression that most publishers want third person.

Third. (He/ she) walked down the street smoking a cuban cigar, looking the the windows of run down shops and open bar room doors.

First. (I) walked down the street smoking a cuban cigar, looking in the windows of run down shops and listening to the music flowing out from the bars.

Second ?

Susan Gable · Jun 5, 2005

changling said:
? I am under the impression that most publishers want third person.

Third. (He/ she) walked down the street smoking a cuban cigar, looking the the windows of run down shops and open bar room doors.

First. (I) walked down the street smoking a cuban cigar, looking in the windows of run down shops and listening to the music flowing out from the bars.

Second ?

Second is YOU. (You) walked down the street, smoking a cuban cigar, looing in the windows of run down shops...

I'd say that there are still many books written in first person. More areas are now opening up to that in the women's fiction genre. I'd also wager to say that very few books are written in second-person. It's kind of awkward.

Third person happens to be my personal favorite.

Susan G.

Sailor Kenshin · Jun 5, 2005

I can't figure out Dan Brown. I like the DVC, but it was a rehash of Angels and Demons. I still can't figure out if he became a better writer, got a better editor, or snagged a better agent.

Probably all of the above; this comes from a once-removed source. Brown spent a lot of time flogging his books. Didn't you see him on Book-TV a while back? Very clever; Book-Tv is for NON- fiction.

Christine N. · Jun 5, 2005

Those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books are in second person. I used to have a bunch of them when I was a kid.

HConn · Jun 5, 2005

Bright Lights Big City is second person. It's a good book. The second person becomes invisible pretty quickly.

scribbler1382 · Jun 5, 2005

Christine N. said:
Those "Choose Your Own Adventure" books are in second person. I used to have a bunch of them when I was a kid.

Before I ever knew it was a book, I played the Infocom text adventure version of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which started:

You wake up. The room is spinning very gently round your head. Or at least it would be if you could see it which you can't.

It is pitch black.

In the 80's, these games were all the rage, and they were all in 2nd person. Which, IMO, made them more immediate and increased your involvement. Not for a second did the tense ever even seem apparent.

Sailor Kenshin · Jun 5, 2005

scribbler1382 said:
Not for a second did the tense ever even seem apparent.

Second tense always annoys the %$#@ out of me. Come to think of it, so does sustained present tense.

Ken Schneider · Jun 5, 2005

Susan Gable said:
Second is YOU. (You) walked down the street, smoking a cuban cigar, looing in the windows of run down shops...

I'd say that there are still many books written in first person. More areas are now opening up to that in the women's fiction genre. I'd also wager to say that very few books are written in second-person. It's kind of awkward.

Third person happens to be my personal favorite.

Susan G.

Thanks Susan.

Ken

PattiTheWicked · Jun 5, 2005

scribbler1382 said:
Before I ever knew it was a book, I played the Infocom text adventure version of Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, which started:

You wake up. The room is spinning very gently round your head. Or at least it would be if you could see it which you can't.

It is pitch black.

In the 80's, these games were all the rage, and they were all in 2nd person. Which, IMO, made them more immediate and increased your involvement. Not for a second did the tense ever even seem apparent.

Oh my gods. I just had a Zork-flashback.

There is a door leading to the west, and a small hole in the wall to the south. Upon the east wall is a large tapestry, moving slightly.

DreamWeaver · Jun 5, 2005

LiamJackson said:
Frazen was apparently concerned he would be tagged as a 'chick-lit' author...Doesn't matter if it's a man, woman, child, or Giant Schnauzer at the cash register. What am I missing?

I believe you're missing his fear of getting Girl Cooties. Uncle Jim's partner in crime, Debra Doyle, wrote a very good essay on it at http://www.sff.net/paradise/girlcooties.htp (Uncle Jim, I hope it's okay to post that link. If not, let me know). Her essay talks about hard SF, but I'm thinking the effect also works for people who feel chick lit and serious lit are mutually exclusive (that would not include me).

Kris

James D. Macdonald · Jun 5, 2005

PattiTheWicked said:
Oh my gods. I just had a Zork-flashback.

You are in a maze of twisty little messageboards, all alike.

===============

(And it's perfectly swell to post a link to Doyle's essay. She wrote it to be read.)

Liam Jackson · Jun 5, 2005

Girl cooties! Dante writers, Beowoulf writers... Who knew? I should be so lucky...unfortunate. Whatever.

Attention all men, women, children and giant schnauzers...Just buy the book. Makes a great doorstop, waffle trivet, sibling swatter, party hat, replacement hubcap for a 1967 Ford Galazy. High fiber, low fat, zero cholesterol. Sprinkled lightly with humor and chocked full of "Ut Oh."

This was a paid spot. Jim, the check is in the mail.

Dawno · Jun 5, 2005

LiamJackson said:
Girl cooties! Dante writers, Beowoulf writers... Who knew? I should be so lucky...unfortunate. Whatever.

Attention all men, women, children and giant schnauzers...Just buy the book. Makes a great doorstop, waffle trivet, sibling swatter, party hat, replacement hubcap for a 1967 Ford Galazy. High fiber, low fat, zero cholesterol. Sprinkled lightly with humor and chocked full of "Ut Oh."

This was a paid spot. Jim, the check is in the mail.

What book am I buying? My giant schnauzer and his lawy...uh, anyway, he wants to know.

Did everyone go check out the Lulu Experiment? Book is already up and for sale. I believe it didn't cost Uncle Jim 'one thin dime' either.

BenMears · Jun 5, 2005

Cool story about "The Historian."

Speaking of things a writer can learn from his/her father, Jackal, did you say that your father had a bookcase full of the works of two of the most popular contemporary novelists? And that you don't know what's in them?

I humbly suggest that a little reading is in order...

James D. Macdonald · Jun 5, 2005

Dawno said:
What book am I buying? My giant schnauzer and his lawy...uh, anyway, he wants to know.

Liam's book is OFFSPRING, and the details are here.

Did everyone go check out the Lulu Experiment? Book is already up and for sale. I believe it didn't cost Uncle Jim 'one thin dime' either.

Yep. The book is up, cost to me zero, time elapsed about nine hours (much of it spent looking for the software I'd need to create a .pdf and trying to figure out how to use my graphics program), and hacking around. Also: supper. And chatting with a friend. It should go quicker next time, if there is a next time.

NOTE: I don't recommend self-publishing to anyone outside of very narrowly defined areas. Specialized non-fiction, niche fiction, poetry. Anything where you know the audience pretty much by name or expect to be looking them in the eye. A defined audience that you can get to is the baseline sine qua non.

This was an experiment, using a public domain text.

Dawno · Jun 6, 2005

I was wondering if anyone had read No Plot? No Problem! by the founder of National Novel Writing Month, Chris Baty. Is it just a shill piece for NaNoWriMo? I'd be interested in opinions.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 6, 2005

I skimmed it in a bookstore. It looks amusing enough, but doesn't look like a how-to if your problem is that you don't have a plot.

(If that is your problem, go here: The Evil Overlord Plot Generator.)

BenMears · Jun 6, 2005

Re: No Plot? No Problem!

I have a copy of the book and have read all but the last three chapters. It is amusing, but I would say there is little in the way of useful ideas, other than the overarching idea of getting stuff written by trying to write it fast. Which can be a valuable idea if you are new at this, as I am.

Rather than the book shilling for NaNoWriMo, I think it is a celebration of the event. And of course, he can make a few bucks from the book, where the event is free. No problem with that.

As for information about the event, you can get plenty off their web site. The book has more jokes, or attempted jokes. ;-)

Dawno · Jun 6, 2005

James D. Macdonald said:
I skimmed it in a bookstore. It looks amusing enough, but doesn't look like a how-to if your problem is that you don't have a plot.

(If that is your problem, go here: The Evil Overlord Plot Generator.)

Nope, plot isn't the problem and besides I have the whole Uncle Jim thread indexed up to this past weekend so I know exactly where to find great advice about plot! (yeah, yeah, shameless plug for my own thread)

I work in the IT dept. at a high tech company. We live and die by deadlines. I heard this was a book about the NaNoWriMo concept of writing a whole novel to a short deadline and cleverly done, so I wondered if anyone else had read it.

BTW, I *love* EOPG. Have it bookmarked on both laptops (home and office)

Pencilone · Jun 7, 2005

Choose Between 2 Endings?

I'm rewriting the plot to sharpen the conflict, to make it even more exciting, etc., etc.

While doing this, the ideas seem to flow and I find myself even thinking at a possible series (although, I want each novel to be stand alone too, I might find ways to bring them all together when needed).

It's a contemporary futuristic fantasy and I have 2 endings in mind that both seem suitable, but they have different flavours. In one I kill one of the secondary guys (but essential to the climax) and that's it, he is gone forever (yes, maybe I could resurrect him in another volume, I don't know). The point is that that he is a normal 'Joe down the street guy' and although sad, the ending will help the reader identify more with the whole situation.

In the second version of the ending, the normal guy Joe is also the missing part of the puzzle, but at the same time I reveal that actually he is a very special guy in undercover. I often wondered why do I need him, why is he there, but he has a special purpose in the end and, besides, he survives the end so I could use him in another novel. The point here is that all the other guys are special, while this one made a nice contrast by being normal and humble till almost the end when we discover that he is special too.

The problem is that I like both endings and somehow they are not too different …

(I wonder if anyone could make sense of what I said)

Pencilone

maestrowork · Jun 7, 2005

What do the characters tell you?

Pencilone · Jun 7, 2005

Maestrowork, Thanks for giving it a go.

They both pull my hands in different directions...

I'm starting to be tempted to kill the guy and maybe resurect him in another book... I don't know... He became special to me somehow. My heart aches to kill him.

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Heathen Horde Elder

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

haz a shiny new book cover

Absolute sagebrush

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

I am too on MSN IM! :(

haz a shiny new book cover

Whore for genre

Write For You, Edit For The Reader

I am too on MSN IM! :(

Absolute sagebrush

Unleashing Hell.

Shakespearean Fool

Your Genial Uncle

Heathen Horde Elder

Shiny!

Your Genial Uncle

Shiny!

Your Genial Uncle

Shiny!

Muse Lover

Fear the Death Ray

Muse Lover