Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

Paolo · May 2, 2005

Euan H. said:
Well...you could always self-publish your book at Lulu and splash something like "In the spirit of the 'best-selling' 'novel' Atlanta Nights, this is South Putney Dog-Day Afternoons."

Maybe you could piggy-back on Atlanta Night's success.

Well, if I'm gonna' go that route, I might as well do it "right", superfluous quotes and all. I noticed you use single quotes to 'set off' certain phrases. The single quotes look more elegant winging out from the sides of the word like that. I'll keep that in mind for the future.

katee · May 2, 2005

BIC was going so well for me until I hit the current scene I'm up to. Writing it feels like wading through mental molasses.

I'd like to recapture that feeling of fun I was having a couple of thousand words ago. (I seem to have misplaced it - anyone pick it up?)

Are there any good ways to get through scenes like this? I know where my story is going because I've done a fairly decent outline. I know what needs to happen, and I know how my protagonist feels about what's happening, but for some reason, I when I go to write it, it's like pulling teeth. Molars. And I'm a dentist wuss.

I'm only 17k into a planned 90k, so it's going to be hard to force myself to write the last, oh, 73k.

zizban · May 2, 2005

katee said:
BIC was going so well for me until I hit the current scene I'm up to. Writing it feels like wading through mental molasses.

I'd like to recapture that feeling of fun I was having a couple of thousand words ago. (I seem to have misplaced it - anyone pick it up?)

Are there any good ways to get through scenes like this? I know where my story is going because I've done a fairly decent outline. I know what needs to happen, and I know how my protagonist feels about what's happening, but for some reason, I when I go to write it, it's like pulling teeth. Molars. And I'm a dentist wuss.

I'm only 17k into a planned 90k, so it's going to be hard to force myself to write the last, oh, 73k.

Yes, some here. I'm at 25,000 words and its grinding to a halt. I don't know what to do next or how to get back in the groove.

maestrowork · May 2, 2005

It's not unusual. I was stuck at 30K for a while. Then my crit group said to me, "Just put words on paper. It doesn't matter if it's crap, just get them on paper, get the story out." I had to let my inner editor go, and skip a few scenes that got me stuck... I ended up writing more than 7000 words last week. I hope I'll have the same progress this week...

debraji · May 2, 2005

Sometimes when it all grinds to a halt it's a sign that there's something wrong with the scene. Perhaps it's really unnecessary, or I'm using the wrong POV, or it's really out of character for my hero to act that way.

One way to break the block is to write about the scene and its problems and my feelings about it. Something's jogged loose in the process, and I slip into writing the scene itself.

If I can't figure out what the problem might be, I can either painfully push on through, or skip it and go on. If I don't, I can waste three weeks not-writing a particular scene (speaking from recent experience). Arrrgh!

zornhau · May 2, 2005

katee said:
BIC was going so well for me until I hit the current scene I'm up to. Writing it feels like wading through mental molasses....

I know where my story is going because I've done a fairly decent outline. I know what needs to happen, and I know how my protagonist feels about what's happening, but for some reason, I when I go to write it, it's like pulling teeth...

Ah, but does your scene have conflict in it, or merely a procession of plot points? Is your protag struggling to achieve something with unexpected results and ramifications, or just experiencing stuff. Does your outline chart encompass one big conflict built of smaller conflicts?

James D. Macdonald · May 2, 2005

Her eyes flew around the room and landed on the curtains.

==================

Welcome to the Dread Mid-Book, folks. Did you ever wonder why most of the folks who start a novel never finish? You're finding out.

All you can do is slog ahead.

Get a copy of The Unstrung Harp, take a break, read it, then get back to the slog. Put your BIC, and type. Just get it on paper.

You can shape the clay later. First you have to get the clay.

=================

If your book sounds like Atlanta Nights -- keep working. You have some learning to do.

Mr Underhill · May 2, 2005

re: stuck in the mud

What about writing something else? I find I can always find something to write about for two hours, just not necessarily the thing I think I ought to be writing.

But perhaps that's not a very good idea for the mid-novel slog. One could get derailed and find it very difficult to get back on track. (Yes I know that's a painfully mixed metaphor.) Hopefully Uncle Jim can address when it's appropriate to be writing something, anything, versus staying with one thing.

Just writing is working for me right now, because my primary goal is to firmly establish the BIC habit. When I'm cranking out content I get the positive feedback I need. If I were to try to force myself to make progress on a WIP scene during my BIC time, I'd quickly fall off the wagon.

(Off the wagon and back into the mud, that is. Wagon ruts – yeah, that's the ticket. That's the metaphor I intended with the derailed bit. I meant to do that. Really I did.)

Christine N. · May 2, 2005

During NaNoWriMo, it's called "hitting the wall". All of a sudden every word is crap, nothing works, and you're characters are all suffering from PMS, including the males.

When you hit the wall, start climbing. The other side makes it all worthwhile.

James D. Macdonald · May 2, 2005

If your reaction to hitting the mid-book is to start a new book (to get that Start Of A Book high) what you'll end up with is a trunkfull of unfinished novels. Is that what you want?

Bull your way through. It's okay to skip ahead and write bits that haven't happened yet. It isn't okay to stop this project. If you feel the need to start a second book -- give it its own BIC time in your day.

maestrowork · May 2, 2005

Oh, yeah, pull yourself through. And I have to say, once you get over the mid-book hump, it will most certainly going to be a great ride after that... it's like the downhill spiral of a rollercoaster... you just need to get through that LONG incline first....

I'm speaking from my own experience, of course.

Roger J Carlson · May 2, 2005

I'm no expert, but I've found a system that works for me. I work in several parts of my book at the same time. I have 3 drafts that precede what I all the First Draft: Storyboard, Rough and Draft. Storyboard is like an extended outline where I write the progagonist does this and says that. With the Rough draft, I put it in past tense and add action and dialog. With the Draft version I add description and smooth the dialog. Each chapter has a separate file for each version. When they're all in Draft version, I stitch them together I go over the whole thing for continuity, story arc, and of course endless revising.

But what this gets me in terms of writers block is that if finished prose isn't coming to me, I go work ahead on the Storyboard. If I can't decide where the story is going, maybe I'll work on Rough copy. Or if everything is banging away on all cylinders, I'll work on Draft. The Storyboard and Rough stages allow me to just write junk if I have to because I'll be going over it in Draft. Sometimes, I'm working in Rough and things start clicking and I find I'm really working in Draft mode.

I'm not saying that this method is right for everybody, but it might help to overcome a slump.

katee · May 2, 2005

Wow guys, this makes me feel so much better. I didn't realise I'd reached "the mid book lull" even though I've read about it. I guess I thought I'd be further in to the book before I hit it.

The good news is that I'm not tempted to start writing something else - I feel really committed to this current project. I do have plans for the next book, and the one after that, but any ideas that pop into my head for them get jotted down and ignored.

And thinking about this scene in particular: there isn't any conflict. And its only purpose is to provide a logical link in the story. My protagonist has to get from A to B and the scene is getting her on the journey. I don't want to leave it out, but maybe instead of a lengthy scene with dialog, I should wrap it up quickly with narrative?

Then I'd get to move on to the more exciting bit where she's telling people about the journey. I'm thinking writing the other characters' reactions will be fun.

astonwest · May 2, 2005

katee said:
Are there any good ways to get through scenes like this? I know where my story is going because I've done a fairly decent outline.

That happened to me a week or so ago...what I ended up doing was writing a scene from later in the book, just to get back in the "feel good" mood (and to finish up a couple of later chapters). Last week, I finally came back to the original scene I'd been stuck on, and was able to get it finished...so at least for me, it helped.

zizban · May 2, 2005

katee said:
Wow guys, this makes me feel so much better. I didn't realise I'd reached "the mid book lull" even though I've read about it. I guess I thought I'd be further in to the book before I hit it.

The good news is that I'm not tempted to start writing something else - I feel really committed to this current project. I do have plans for the next book, and the one after that, but any ideas that pop into my head for them get jotted down and ignored.

And thinking about this scene in particular: there isn't any conflict. And its only purpose is to provide a logical link in the story. My protagonist has to get from A to B and the scene is getting her on the journey. I don't want to leave it out, but maybe instead of a lengthy scene with dialog, I should wrap it up quickly with narrative?

Then I'd get to move on to the more exciting bit where she's telling people about the journey. I'm thinking writing the other characters' reactions will be fun.

Wrap it up and move on. Come back to it in the second pass.

I haven't started anything else--I just dont feel like writing, period.

black winged fighter · May 2, 2005

When I hit a lull, I switch to one of my other projects; I revise my priority WIP, flip to my new idea, or outline a new concept. By breaking up my writing into different types and mediums, I keep my interest at a high.

Speaking of highs - I think I'm addicted to BIC. I wasn't able to type yesterday due to major exams, and the pent up urge to write has been killing me all day.

Come to think of it, this is actually a good development.

black winged fighter · May 2, 2005

I am just full of questions, these days...

The following is a small section of my WIP:

*
That was why, as the sun was setting, Arnora left her lodgings for a walk around the streets. She needed time to sort out her many futures, all of which were flapping loosely in her mind. That was why she walked, eyes unseeing, past the dark little alley where three men waited. That was why she never heard them follow her, and only realised her error when the club struck the back of her head.
*

It needs work; I dashed it off during a lull point, so these are just words. My real question is about the 'That was why' part. Is that acceptable prose style? I know that parallel construction adds weight to non-fiction, but does it just make the passage seem repetitive?

zizban · May 2, 2005

Whats the part before it?

maestrowork · May 2, 2005

That was why, as the sun was setting, Arnora left her lodgings for a walk around the streets. She needed time to sort out her many futures, all of which were flapping loosely in her mind. That was why she walked, eyes unseeing, past the dark little alley where three men waited. That was why she never heard them follow her, and only realised her error when the club struck the back of her head.

I think the parallel "That was why" are fine. Repetition means emphasis. The problem I have here is that I don't know whose point of view it is. It sounds like her POV (in blue), but at the same time, it's not, because the omniscient narrator is clearly speaking here (in red). I think you wrote it duing a "null point" -- I suspect that you just couldn't get into the character? It just sounds like the narrator (you) are poking out, unable to let the story and the POV character take center stage...

black winged fighter · May 2, 2005

Ah, maestorwork, you've hit the problem exactly! I just couldn't see it for myself - I've been over that passage so many times before that the words no longer hold meaning and life for me.
I will fix this asap - it's definitely supposed to be 3rd person limited.

Thanks!

zornhau · May 3, 2005

katee said:
And thinking about this scene in particular: there isn't any conflict. And its only purpose is to provide a logical link in the story. My protagonist has to get from A to B and the scene is getting her on the journey. I don't want to leave it out, but maybe instead of a lengthy scene with dialog, I should wrap it up quickly with narrative?

Then I'd get to move on to the more exciting bit where she's telling people about the journey. I'm thinking writing the other characters' reactions will be fun.

IMVHO, ways I've seen around this include:

Jump straight to her relating the journey
Throw in some local conflict (woman against journey) illuminating or changing her character, turning the journey into a neat short story - e.g. travelling companions include a drunk, randy, priest, a lunatic etc, or the coachman doesn't speak her language and she has to struggle not to get left behind, or sold to slavers.
Give her one of the supporting characters as a travelling companion, and have them at odds with how she should behave, even though it's her unladylike actions which keep them out of peril.
Use the journey as the stage for her inner conflict - by the time she's arrived, she's made a decision about something, partly due to her experiences en route.
Use the journey as a setting for another scene, e.g. take a later scene where she meets and quarrels with the love interest, and dump into the journey scene

Or, just make a note [COOL JOURNEY SCENE HERE] and come back to it when you've worked out what to do with it.

stranger · May 3, 2005

first person use in third person POV?

I was writing over the weekend and came across this problem. My novel is third person limited (with multible POVs.) But I found myself using first person when I was reporting my character's direct thoughts.
e.g. "I must tell someone about this. But who?"
It seems to read okay to me. I can re-write without using the first person but it generally becomes more clunky.
On a similar note should I use italics for direct thoughts?

James D. Macdonald · May 3, 2005

If it sounds okay, and you're consistent, why not write in first person for the thoughts?

And yes, use italics for thoughts. Unless you decide to do something different. As long as you're consistent. Don't confuse the readers.

Christine N. · May 3, 2005

It sounds like the first person is the POV characters thoughts? That's ok to do, as long as you indicate it's a thought.

Most publishers want thoughts underlined when you submit an ms. The formatter will turn it into italics when the book is being formatted for the printer. So don't worry about it. If you want to italicize for yourself, just make sure you underline on the final draft.

stranger · May 3, 2005

Thanks, I thought it might be considered mixing up third person and first person POVs.

I'm not sure if I should use italics (I underline if I want italics) for direct thoughts. Sometimes it's hard to figure out whether something is a direct thought or not. I read (pronounced red) somewhere that if you use a deep POV, where you are deeply inside your characters head then you don't need the italics.

I certainly don't want to have long passages in italics. I may leave them out for now and decide in a later draft if it seems better with or without.

Learn Writing with Uncle Jim, Volume 1

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