Supernatural (Warning: Spoilers)

IMO, maybe the build-up to Chuck unleashing *whatever he unleashed* should've been the first few episodes of the next (last) season.

Click to expand...

All the souls from Hell, with most looking like ones Sam and Dean put there. At least a couple were straight out of seasons 1 and 2. The Woman in White, Bloody Mary, the creepy clown...

- - - Updated - - -

I agree that Chuck was out of character toward the end. At one point I thought it was a test of character for the boys; then I was sure it was Lucifer or somebody pretending to be God. But that's it? God is no more than a sorry hack writer who's all butt-hurt because his characters won't do what he wants? What happened to free will? Choosing family? Our Father, who skipped out on Heaven, what a freakin' wuss. No wonder he has to self-publish. After this, I'm all in favor of Chuck being the final season's Big Bad. I hope the boys kick his ass.

Click to expand...

While I agree there was a pretty quick about-face in this episode, the groundwork for Bad Chuck has been there throughout the series. He's been dicking them around for a long time, first by pretending to not even be God. It turns out Lucifer was right. Metatron was right. AU Michael was right. Lucifer was God's favorite until he wasn't. Sam and Dean were his favorites until they weren't. And considering the setup earlier in the season about God "abandoning" previous drafts of his worlds, this is in line.

The show has also always been particularly good at being meta, and this reveal gives new context: Think episodes like The French Mistake (another world) and Changing Channels (TV); Sam is finally being fed up with being God's "favorite show."

Now that Sam and Dean got closure with John, they'll take on the ultimate Father Figure.

Welcome to the end!

Totally in agreement, Katiemac. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The show's ending. They've fought everybody else. The only ass left to kick is the Big Kahuna himself, the one who started it all. And, as you said, has been dicking with them from the start. The part I didn't care for was Chuck's abrupt heel turn. What the hell, let's blame the writers. Everybody else is.

We may not know what becomes of Sam and Dean in the end, but now we know what happens to Cas, thanks to the Miami Herald.

I enjoyed demon!Jack as well. Also not too surprised that Chuck disappeared off to parts unknown--they can't spend *all season* battling God, because one, it would be hard to sustain that one storyline for so many episodes without it getting repetitive, and two, as much as I love Sam and Dean and Cas, it would be asking a lot out of us to believe they could go up against God for muchos episodes and continue to prevail. Once, sure, they manage to get away alive. Having that happen four or five or six times, and it all starts to fall apart.

BTW, it kind of feels like weak sauce that Chuck's big move to destroy their world was to let loose some demons. He probably could have just snapped everyone and everything out of existence. Then I guess we wouldn't have this season, but . . . yeah, that's the problem with an actually all-powerful being and why he has to be used sparingly (see above about them not having much chance against him).

I like the touches of "hey remember 14 seasons ago?", but I hope they don't get too carried away with that. I'd like this season to stand on its own and not be just one big self-referential curtain call.

Thanks for the compliment! Wish I had a theory to repay you with. Unless they're doing a riff on the Harry Potter/Voldemort connection. Sam is now tied to God. Does that mean if they kill Chuck, Sam dies too? In order to stop Chuck, will Dean finally have to ram a knife into his little brother? I know, they go through this plot every other season, but this is the last one so I'll cut 'em some slack.

Nice way to keep what's-his-name (the actor who plays Jack) on the show while his character's officially dead. It also gives us a Crowley of sorts. Wonder if they've approached Mark Sheppard about a cameo?

I'm wondering about Rowena's reaction to Ketch. Wasn't she dodging him because he was after her for the self-resurrection spell? I seem to remember something like that from about two seasons ago.

ETA: Sudden theory inspiration! Sam is draining Chuck's powers! Sam is becoming God! He's going to be the final season's big bad. This would tie in with something I saw on the official teaser trailer, with Sam in the white Lucifer suit.

Can they kill Chuck, though?

I think at some point Death saidhe would eventually reap even God. But that might not be something they ever really plan(ned) on following up on. After all, Death, uh, died.

And what would happen if Chuck could and did, in fact, die? Could the world go on without him?

All that's to say, I think there may be a rapprochement in the future, because I don't think they can get rid of Chuck entirely. And I suspect it'll have something to do with that wound that links Sam and Chuck. Maybe, as suggested, Sam has to save Chuck, or vice versa, or it's mutual saving. It doesn't mean they'll be singing Kumbaya at the end, but they might work it out so they aren't active enemies.

They may need to keep Chuck alive so he can write the reboot in five years.

Think that will finally get Dean to stop worrying about him?

"Dude. I'm God. Give it a rest."

Calla Lily said:

TMZ, that ever-reliable source of sleaze, has video: Jared Padalecki has been arrested for public intoxication and assault... at his own nightclub.

1. Dude, you're married with little kids. Shape up!
2. The show might go on hiatus a little earlier this fall.

Click to expand...

Darn. That's very disappointing behavior from him.

I agree. In the whole time the show's been on, I don't think I ever heard a bad bit of press about him or Jensen until this.

This is the final season; they're probably going to fit in as many callbacks as they can. See also: the possible return of Sam's prophetic dreams.

From last week's previews, I thought we were going to get a filler ep. I was pleasantly surprised.

But geez. Chuck Thanos-ing Becky? This last season better not be the boys trying to find the Infinity Stones.

Yeah, the dream was interesting, the boys' part of the episode was pretty much a rinse-and-repeat, and the Chuck parts just kind of fell flat for me. I am still not getting why Chuck is suddenly a sadist just snapping people out of existence (or at least moving them "somewhere else", or whatever it was he said about Becky's family). It feels about as subtle as a sledgehammer, TBH. I think it would've been much more effective to make it all more morally ambiguous, instead of Chuck just being terrible (for no real apparent reason). I would've liked to see the dynamic of the boys and God being at cross-purposes but not necessarily enemies. I mean, it could be SUPER interesting to be literally trying to win over God to your way of thinking. They could have a really cool dynamic. Of course, that would require some deft writing, with subtlety and less reliance on rehashing the last 14 seasons, and I'm, uh, not entirely sure these writers are up to it.

Yes, there was an episode last week, and it actually took me a moment to remember what it was about. To be fair, a lot of other stuff has been on my mind.

Last week's episode, Lilith returned, melted the equalizer gun, and departed. I did not really understand why she showed up and why she wanted the gun and to melt it, and I didn't understand why she then disappeared. Also, there was some more stuff with Chuck that I still felt was . . . off. Most the stuff with Chuck feels off to me. I stand by what I said above about making him an adversary without making him Evil!God.

I'm also having difficulty figuring out HOW they're going to fight him. He's, ya know, God. And so far, there haven't been any real leads on what to do about him. No allies or weapons or spells or anything that might be of any help. I know it's early in the season, but I'm having a hard time seeing how all of this is going to come together. Like I said at the end of last season, they played the Chuck card too soon, and now they have to fill (nearly) a whole season with the threat of God Himself hanging over their heads but never quite falling. They have to find ways to keep Chuck and the boys occupied. Hence, filler, with heartfelt conversations at the end of the episode reminding us about God and how they're totally gonna do something about it and win . . . soon.

Cas's powers work/don't work for the same reason Deanna Troi was ineffectual most of the time on ST:TNG, and why female characters on TV and in comics (pre-Buffy) had powers that worked unpredictably: he isn't the lead. If his or Deanna's powers worked the way they're supposed to, most of the shows would have been over in the first ten minutes, and then what would the heroes do? It's like having Superman in the Justice League. If you've got Superman, you really don't need the rest of the Justice League. (Except for Batman. We'll always need Batman.) If Castiel's at full power, you really don't need Sam and Dean.

Which is why I would totally love Cas to be the one to take on Chuck.

It would play beautifully on the meta themes, because Cas isn't supposed to be here. He's that character all writers both pray for and dread: the one who shows up on the page unexpectedly and takes on a life of their own. Cas was never meant to survive beyond Season 4; he was supposed to be gone after maybe four episodes. But he and Misha proved so popular they kept him around. Now here we are eleven years later and he's still on the show, still part of the storyline.

Which makes him Chuck's worst enemy. He's the spanner in the works, the fly in the ointment, the monkey in the wrench. No matter what the writers do to him, Cas survives. He's too popular to kill. His own creator can't control him. He has never, ever done what he was supposed to.

Let Chuck win. Let him have the boys kill each other. Doesn't matter. Castiel will figure out a way to screw it up. Be great if he tricked Chuck into restoring him to his full angel glory. Then we could get the ending I postulated last season: Cas hops back in time and pulls off the retcon of the century by smiting Yellow Eyes before he can contaminate Sam or kill Mary. Time travel and creating alternate timelines worked for the Avengers, it'll work here. If Chuck doesn't like it, too bad. He lost control of his story years ago. It belongs to the fans now. If they don't like it, they're create their own versions and bring the boys back. (Sam and Dean as tulpas. There's a thought.)

Imagine if Cas and Chuck actually had this conversation on the show. Meta enough for you?

Or the show's writers could follow standard procedure and have the boys pull something out of their butts at the last minute (i.e., the final three episodes) and kill God. Then ride off down the road, I guess, until they make a theatrical movie a la X-Files or reboot in five years. Hopefully with a better crop of writers at the helm.