So management sets the mandatory gratuity at 17% and it makes you so mad you get even by punishing the servers? Bad ferret. Bad.
Family locked in Restaurant for not paying gratuity
- Thread starter Lyra Jean
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Which is an idiotic system. The waiter should be an employee of the restaurant, paid a decent wage, and held, by the restaurant management, to the restaurant's standards for service.
When I go to an auto parts store, I don't have to tip the guy who helps me find what I want. His salary is already part of the store's overhead, and eventually reflected in the price of the part I buy. (If he's really good with customers, and if his manager's at all observant, he should get a raise.)
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This isn't very different than holding shoplifters until authorities arrive to determine what to do. Regardless of the right to not tip, or how much servers should be paid, these people wanted to walk out on an unpaid bill.
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I have no problem with a group gratuity being added, but IMHO you can't imprison people. They had their information and could have referred the 'theft of services' to the police. I see this as different from making a 'citizen's arrest' of an unidentified person shoplifting.
First off, grating people at 6 customers is just crazy. There, I got that part out of the way.
I agree, they should have talked to the management.
They also should have gotten out of the restaurant. I leave cash tips and pay the bill with my card all the time. Get the thing back, put my cash on the table, and get out. Granted, I'm usually there with just my wife and it's easier to get out quick if there's only two people.
The reason large parties get the tip added to the bill is because the servers get screwed over way too often. You get a $400 tab and everyone at the table leaves $1-2. That's not cool. Especially when you consider that the hostess is trying to keep all the servers at around the same number of people so that tips will be roughly even.
Where I work the rule is that parties of 8+ might have the gratuity added. For people who come in pretty often or for some reason just don't seem like ass hats no gratuity is added. But when you've got 15 people coming in before prom, you know the gratuity is going on the bill.
I agree, they should have talked to the management.
They also should have gotten out of the restaurant. I leave cash tips and pay the bill with my card all the time. Get the thing back, put my cash on the table, and get out. Granted, I'm usually there with just my wife and it's easier to get out quick if there's only two people.
The reason large parties get the tip added to the bill is because the servers get screwed over way too often. You get a $400 tab and everyone at the table leaves $1-2. That's not cool. Especially when you consider that the hostess is trying to keep all the servers at around the same number of people so that tips will be roughly even.
Where I work the rule is that parties of 8+ might have the gratuity added. For people who come in pretty often or for some reason just don't seem like ass hats no gratuity is added. But when you've got 15 people coming in before prom, you know the gratuity is going on the bill.
The minimum gratuity for a large table is reasonable, because, unfortunately, there are still customers who don't tip at all, or tip very little. Plus, with a large party, the amount of the bill can affect the customers' generosity. That's not fair to the server.
/begin rant
Tip your servers, folks. They are serving you. They are at your beck and call. Part of their tips go to the cooks and bussers, who are preparing your food and cleaning up your mess. And in some cases, your kids' messes.
They are, in short, saints.
20% is the acceptable minimum, in my area. I'll give extra for great service. Just round it up to the nearest twenty for Chrissakes. If you can afford to go to a restaurant, you can afford to say thank you.
/end rant
/begin rant
Tip your servers, folks. They are serving you. They are at your beck and call. Part of their tips go to the cooks and bussers, who are preparing your food and cleaning up your mess. And in some cases, your kids' messes.
They are, in short, saints.
20% is the acceptable minimum, in my area. I'll give extra for great service. Just round it up to the nearest twenty for Chrissakes. If you can afford to go to a restaurant, you can afford to say thank you.
/end rant
Yup. I've been a server before myself, and delivered pizzas, and unless the service is abyssmal, my minimum is 20%. (By abysmal, I mean I get seated and forgotten about for 15-20 minutes before anyone takes my drink order; then another 15 goes by before my order gets taken; my drink is more often than not empty; the server has an attitude, etc.)
If gratuity is added to a check, and the service was good, I'll even leave a little more for the server because they deserve more than the standard 17-18%. But, I'm also the kind of person that stacks my own dirty dishes, and wipes up my own messes, because I just feel bad for asking others to clean up after me.
But, if gratuity is added first, and the service was terrible and it's obviously the server's fault, then yeah, I'm calling a manager over and complaining. I'll either get free stuff, or they'll take the gratuity off and I'll leave what I think the server deserves. I never leave no tip.
The west coast of the USA is different in that here servers get paid at least the state minimum wage + tips, not the less-than-minimum that many other states allow.
Servers out here can make a pretty good living - $9/hour plus tips for a job that usually only requires a high school education and on-job training. I'm thinking for a decent restaurant a server probably makes at least $20-25/hr here - ? But that's just a guess. Depending on the restaurant, could be more/less.
I don't remember about Texas - I think they don't get paid minimum wage. So they rely on tips more.
Here's a chart that shows what each state's minimum is for employees who also get tips:
http://www.dol.gov/whd/state/tipped.htm
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I have been at group meals multiple times where not only the tip but core bill was stiffed. Leaving the remaining guests and the wait staff in a very unpleasant stand off. I would rather just have the tip added to the price up front.
I did once leave $.01. That's right 1 cent. So the server would not think I forgot.
We (hubby and I) had dinner in an upscale restaurant in Tucson that we had been to a number of times when we lived there. We were in town for me to take seminars and treated ourselves to a nice hotel and dinner out. The food was as good as we remembered, but the service was appalling. I mentioned the details to the hostess, so she would know I did not forget the tip. She asked me to speak to the manager. I did, and he was all over himself to offer us a free appetizer and dessert the next time we were in. I explained we no longer lived in Tucson, but I was satisfied if the server was explained the error of her ways.
MM
Yup. I've been a server before myself, and delivered pizzas, and unless the service is abyssmal, my minimum is 20%. (By abysmal, I mean I get seated and forgotten about for 15-20 minutes before anyone takes my drink order; then another 15 goes by before my order gets taken; my drink is more often than not empty; the server has an attitude, etc.)
If gratuity is added to a check, and the service was good, I'll even leave a little more for the server because they deserve more than the standard 17-18%. But, I'm also the kind of person that stacks my own dirty dishes, and wipes up my own messes, because I just feel bad for asking others to clean up after me.
Ditto. Even if the service is terrible, I leave something, and I too stack all my dirty dishes and wipe the table down. Tipping is just plain common courtesy, especially when you consider how little servers get paid.
That being said, you can't just hold someone hostage until they pay. The store should have called the cops and filed a claim against them, not falsely imprisoned them.
There are false imprisonment suits against security guards detaining people all the time. See McCann v Wal-Mart Stores, Inc., 210 F.3d 51, 2000 U.S. App. A guard can detain you for the purposes of investigating whether you committed an offense, but cannot just hold you. (See, for example, Cal. Pen. Code Section 490.5 subd (f)). They can only detain you and question you until police arrive.
False imprisonment is when you confine someone else without their consent and restrict their ability to move for any amount of time, no matter how short or how long. The confined person doesn't even actually have to be confined, but only has to believe they are not free to leave. Even the police are guilty of false imprisonment (also called false arrest) for cuffing a suspect and putting him in a squad car without actually arresting him or reading him his rights. Even if they arrest him later.
This website has a great definition and explanation: http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/False+Imprisonment
Yes, the people were in the wrong for not paying the gratuity. I've been pissed over the amount of gratuity added when I received shoddy service, but I paid it and complained to the manager or just didn't return to that restaurant. However, the restaurant was in the wrong for false imprisonment on not just one count, but for every member of the party they confined.
(Although I do agree with Manuel Royal that restaurant owners should just pay their staff a correct wage and not force them to make a living off tips)
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No, they were willing to pay the bill; they just didn't want to pay an additional 17% "gratuity".
(It should be illegal to call something a "gratuity" if it's not optional. Contradiction in terms. That's not a gratuity, it's a fee.)
I don't know if the "shopkeeper's privilege" applies to restaurants. I've read the Texas code on Shoplifting, but can't find a clear answer.
Note: I generally tip 20-25%. But it's still an idiotic system, and wouldn't exist in a restaurant I ran.
((Sigh)), I guess I'm lucky that Mickey Ds don't charge a mandatory "gratuity" fee. Otherwise, my family and myself wouldn't eat out anywhere.
While 17% obligatory tip seems excessive, so was the imprisonment/confinement in the restaurant. The wage issues brought up by some people here is a non-issue, really. The issue is the restaurant's policy. The family should have checked into it ahead of time, paid for the meal, and if they were dissatisfied in some way or another, should have left minimum or no tip...and never gone back again. They could have Facebooked their disapproval, spoken with the management, picketed the place if they chose to...but the law--stupid or not--was on the restaurant's side.
Where the restaurant owner/manager screwed up was in detaining the family. Yes, the gratuity thing was on their side--like it or not--but the manager should have just called the cops and asked them to deal with it.
Where the restaurant owner/manager screwed up was in detaining the family. Yes, the gratuity thing was on their side--like it or not--but the manager should have just called the cops and asked them to deal with it.
It's not the same price, and it's not like they're getting waited on by people working for free. The resturant hires you to be a waiter, you're paid a wage for that job, why is it that tipping is expected regardless of service?
ETA: I was a waiter through uni.
I find the custom of tipping to be frustrating. It's expected in certain industries, but not others regardless of the correlation in service.
Restaurants, hair salons, taxi drivers ... all expect tips. Hell, I went to a coffee house the other day and when I paid with my credit card there was a little spot asking me how much i wanted to tip. For what?
Then you have full service gas station attendants who check your tires, your oil, wash your windows and fill your tank and no one tips them.
Restaurants, hair salons, taxi drivers ... all expect tips. Hell, I went to a coffee house the other day and when I paid with my credit card there was a little spot asking me how much i wanted to tip. For what?
Then you have full service gas station attendants who check your tires, your oil, wash your windows and fill your tank and no one tips them.
In my opinion it's a show of gratitude. But it also correlates to standard practices. You get paid less if a gratuity is custom.
And yeah, I tip the Starbucks employee. Just because I pay $5 for a speciality coffee doesn't mean the server is getting big bucks. An extra dollar? Meh. If everyone gave that, the servers could probably make a decent living.
It's all relative. Are we cheap or not, people?
It depends on the restaurant and the serving sizes. But I've worked in six restaurants in three cities and carry out only costs less if there is less food or it's prepared differently.
The restaurant pays me for the shift (which was usually 2-5 an hour) and the customer paid me for the service.
If I didn't make enough tips for my tips+shift pay to add up to minimum wage, the restaurant had to pay the difference. But that was exceedingly rare. In NYC I made at least 25 dollars an hour.
Again, if people don't want to pay for service, they can take the food home. That's what gets me. All this fussing about tipping as if someone is forcing them to go out and eat. They'd save lots of money if they ate at home.
And I don't personally think a person should tip if they get really bad service.
But if you tip the coffee house person, do you also tip the mcdonalds person? Is there a difference.
True. McDonald's doesn't accept tips. If they did, I'd probably throw a dollar or two in the jar.
Based on the direction this thread is going, I'm reminded of this scene.
But yeah. 18%-20% minimum unless the service was just appalling. Only had one case where the service was just so god awful that I felt compelled to pull it. I left nothing and spoke to the manager. Waitress didn't make rounds for 20 minutes at a time. When I did see her, she was gabbing with her friends. She screwed up the orders, couldn't even get Pepsi right... then took an attitude with me when she "forgot" something I ordered. Actually argued with me: "You never said you wanted that."
"Uh, yeah, kinda did?" Kinda at an impasse, I see!
Needless to say, I was flabbergasted.
One question I have with mandatory gratuity: What's the incentive to provide good service then? I have to admit, I would be BS if I had been forced, by law, to pay that terrible waitress a dime more than the price in the menu.
But yeah. 18%-20% minimum unless the service was just appalling. Only had one case where the service was just so god awful that I felt compelled to pull it. I left nothing and spoke to the manager. Waitress didn't make rounds for 20 minutes at a time. When I did see her, she was gabbing with her friends. She screwed up the orders, couldn't even get Pepsi right... then took an attitude with me when she "forgot" something I ordered. Actually argued with me: "You never said you wanted that."
"Uh, yeah, kinda did?" Kinda at an impasse, I see!
Needless to say, I was flabbergasted.
One question I have with mandatory gratuity: What's the incentive to provide good service then? I have to admit, I would be BS if I had been forced, by law, to pay that terrible waitress a dime more than the price in the menu.
I think the same about including the tips in the wages. The service in France is horrible across the board. The wait staff tend to be slow and unfriendly because they are essentially working retail with food. I'd never wait tables in a country where tipping isn't standard. I need to know I'm going to make more money when I work harder.