Genderqueer + Genderfluid characters

[Roxxsmom]

I was a bit surprised to discover that my mom and I were considered a transvestites back in the 70s when she was wearing pants suits to work and I was wearing jeans to school. I did have one friend whose dad was kind of a redneck (the last of that generation who didn't "let" their wives work), and he made fun of me sometimes (by calling me the male version of my name) because I almost never wore dresses (even his wife wore pants sometimes, though), but even he didn't toss the term transvestite at me. The first time I encountered that particular word in daily life was actually the Rocky Horror Picture Show.

I agree it's wrong and unfair that men automatically get their identity and orientation questioned for wearing skirts or dresses when the same hasn't been true of women for much longer, but as Kuwisdelu said, pants made specifically for women have been an acceptable thing for a long time in the US (I can't speak for when and how they caught on in other cultures), and women who in no way question their gender identity or are interested in flaunting the particulars of the female role assigned by society in general (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with flaunting these roles either, just to be clear, or with being a transvestite) have been wearing them for decades.

Saying that a woman who is wearing pants (since the mid twentieth century at least) is cross dressing is a bit like saying a Scottish man who wears kilts is cross dressing.

 

[Keobooks]

Just a quickie. Genderfluid is a type of gender-queerness. Asking the difference between the two is like asking the difference between apples and fruit. Are apples and fruit the same thing? Apples are a fruit, but not all fruits are apples.

 

[PinkUnicorn]

Nope. As I'm sure you know, you can buy jeans and pants in the women's department these days. Just because pants were once gendered male doesn't mean they still are..

LOL! Yeah, that was kind of my point. I've had some local people go bonkers on this point. I live in a VERY religious community, where the majority thinks women in pants are a one way ticket to hell, and I'm like... really? wearing pants is evil? What? *shakes head* I think the town I live in is a little behind the times. There are men in this town who will not allow their wives and daughters to vote - how many towns in America in 2016, have women, marching around demanding they be given the right to vote? The men of this town are insane. This is part of America, not a dynasty - don't they know that? Women are incredibly repressed around here. I mean, you HEAR that America has laws, but then I look around this town and go: Really? there are laws? Real, live, American laws, that Maine is supposed to obey? WHERE? I'm not seeing them. Same sex marriage is legal? Seriously? try enforcing that one around here. It may be legal, but just because it's a law, doesn't mean the men of this town are gonna let it happen. They are still are not allowing women to vote around here, there are still segregated black/white bathrooms in this town. We are dealing with religious insanity on cult-like levels that have taken over the entire town, and no one in the rest of the country cares, because "oh, it's just those hicks up in the sticks of Maine, hicks being hicks" (that's what tourists say when they visit our town in the summer.)

Well, like I said, those were the definitions back in the 1970s/1980s in Maine and sadly, not much has changed around here. Every day is a struggle, for any body who doesn't fit the majority attitude around here. try being non-white in this town (I'm not white enough either.) I sometimes feel like Maine doesn't think it's part of America (right now, we trans folks are fighting for our right to own property. Yeah. A month ago, I became the latest, of 140+ locals to receive a court order, telling me, I'm not allowed to set foot on my own land, because I QUOTE: "dress like a gay transsexual terrorist" UNQUOTE. Yep - judge signature and everything. There is a guy marching around town the past few weeks saying "kill the trannies before they kill us all". He drove a backhoe over my house.

Last summer, a transsexual (I don't know trans from what to what, or more details, the news reports just said "transsexual") was being bullied by some white-power girls (not uncommon around here) only this particular trans was high on drugs and carrying a knife, so cut one of the bully girls' heads off, in the ice cream department of a grocery store, Saco, Maine, 4 miles from my driveway.

Local trans-haters are using it as their battle cry, thus the reason behind the phrase "kill the trannies before they kill us all" and why my 10 cats were kidnapped, the heads of 2 of them have been returned, because I'm one of those "evil trannies" and beheading people is "what we do". WBC is up here with their signs. Both of my neighbours, and a guy 5 houses down from me all vocally and publicly said "leave her alone" and they to have all now had backhoes drive over their houses as well. One had his business burned to the ground. Since September 2015, our town has gone to hell in a flurry of transphobic hate crimes that are absolutely barbaric and we tansfolk are on our own, the police are doing NOTHING.

Try to going to the police... the officers laughed and said "Well you know how it is, the boys are having fun, I mean come on look at how you're dressed."

Yippie for life in Maine. You do not want to be a trans-ANYTHING in Maine right now, these people are working themselves up into a frenzy and they are gonna kill people before this is over, and right, now, the ones marching around with rifles are pointing to me and saying I'm the one they need to "blow that THING's head off" because I'm the one more "openly trans" then anyone else in the area. It's a war zone here. Those men have guns and they are throw cat heads at us. I don't know what country, Maine thinks it's a part of, but it's certainly not America.

People talk about struggled for their rights, and you've never stood in your driveway while angry mob points rifles in your face telling you ought to be shot in the head, because you are wearing a dress, while they throw the head of your 9 year old cat in your face... then you don't know what a struggle for your rights is. My Cleo is dead. They cut her head off.

5 days ago, I got attacked and beaten up by a group of white-power teens, while grocery shopping. Guess what store? Oh yeah, Shaw's in Saco. Same store. The local LGBTQ community is terrified to shop at that store since the murder, because white-power hate groups hang out in the parking lot now beating up any body they think "looks gay".

These are the exact same people who are running telling women they can't wear pants...in 2016. It's absolutely ridiculous. The trans community of Maine is right now watching herd mentality unfolding at it's worst. These people are working themselves up into an absolute frenzy. It's DANGEROUS to be trans in Maine and set foot out of your house right now. When will it end? How far will these haters go, before someone stands up and says Maine is part of America and this is illegal? How many more people and pets will die, before someone actually enforces the law?

 

[AW Admin]

I live in Maine, which is NOT a trans-friendly state - ooooh the locals HATE me.

That's interesting, and very very different from my experience in Maine, including rural Maine.

Most people think of a transvestite as being a man in a dress, but prior to the 1990s it was also used for a woman wearing pants. Interestingly, as recent as 1978, a female could be expelled from public school, for being a "transvestite" if she wore pants instead of a skirt, to school. In some cultures, even now in 2016, a woman can be beheaded, for the "sin" of "being a transvestite" aka wearing blue jeans.

That may have been what people thought transvestite meant, but they would have been wrong.

Cross-dresser is someone who dresses as the other gender; in terms of the original meaning, transvestite referred to someone with transvestism, that is someone who dresses as the other gender for reasons related to sexual fetish.

It's still used as a fetish term; it's just no longer considered a disorder by the APA.

Technically EVERY female in the United States of America, who wears blue jeans or other pants IS a transvestite. Which is about 90% of the female population. It's kind of funny when really stop and think about it, because I'm old enough to remember woman being kicked out of school for "cross dressing" simply because they wanted to wear blue jeans. Heck, I was right in the middle of it when women of the late 1970s/early1980s were fighting for their right to wear pant suits to work.

30 years ago, women were fighting for their right to wear pants and not be called transvestites for doing so. And now 30 years later men are fighting for their right to wear dresses. I think we live in a strange world, because people should be able to wear whatever they want without having to fight for their right to simply wear clothes.

I don't recall that in the 1970s; in Lubec, I remember women on the boats routinely wearing pants. I certainly did. And lots of us wore pants in high school.

My father the pastor performed a marriage for two women in Camden in 1972.

Queer is a hate slur against gay men, it is the equivalent of calling a black man the N-word. Around here (Maine) the term Queer was made popular by Hitler's soldier's in the 1940s. People old enough to remember the 1940s/1950s associate queer with Nazi. Basically queer was what you called a man to mark him as worthy of being sent to the gas chamber. Gay men in the 1970s fought to get the word gay used as a replacement for the word queer, in the same way black men fought for their right to not be slaves and women fought for their right to vote. Use of the word queer is a slap in the face to the men who fought to kill that word's use. Queer is a very, very, very, VERY bad word. Yes, if you use the word queer around anyone who was alive in the 1940s to 1970s, you'll be greeted with disgust, shock, and horror.

This is at best idiosyncratic. Yes, the word queer is still not used by many older people because they consider it offensive. But that has changed. I noted that my 92 year old mom in a senior residence in Maine has a lesbian couple as neighbors; they are involved in taking gender studies courses at Bowdoin like

ENGLISH
English 10 {1034} c. Lesbian Personae. Peter Coviello. TTh 10:00-11:25am.
A study of the varied representations of same-sex desire between women across a range of twentieth-century novels and films. Concerned with
questions of the visibility, and invisibility, of lesbian life; of the contours of lesbian childhood and adolescence; of the forms of difference between and
among lesbians; and of the tensions, as well as the affinities, that mark relations between queer women and queer men. Authors may include Nella
Larsen, Willa Cather, Carson McCullers, Ann Bannon, and others. (Same as Gay and Lesbian Studies 20 {1034} and Gender and Women’s Studies
23 {1034}.)

Please note that I live in Maine, in the same town were the local Neo-Nazi group is, and 3 towns from the largest KKK group on the East coast. I am VERY familiar with their glorifying Hitler to the rank of being a god and their "let's kill the queers" sentimentality. Gathering up queers (gay men), stripping them named, and hanging them upside down in a tree, is a common past time around here. Thee groups, "hunt queers" the same way hunters, hurt deer and moose. I don't know what part of the country accepts queer as a "good" or "accepted" word, but come up here to Maine and try tossing that word around, see what kind of reaction you get in the heart of white-power region. Hey, I live in the 99.9% white town (whitest town in the country) of the 99.9% white state (whitest state in America), and it ain't just non-whites they hate. Come to Maine, identifying as "queer" and see how fast you get stripped naked and hung in a tree. Welcome to Maine.

That's just silly. Really really silly. And inaccurate. I've visited my mom with my partner. I've been to events to earn funds for queer youth.

There were numerous quiltbag folk at my father's funeral in Maine. There are bigots everywhere, but Maine is not worse than similarly rural areas, and it's better than some.

Would I use queer to refer to someone who objected and preferred to be referred to as gay? No, I wouldn't. But I am not gay; I prefer to be referred to as queer or lesbian.

 

[AW Admin]

Hey PinkUnicorn Please see the image size FAQs and reduce that image a bit; we limit images to 400 x 400 generally.

We've got people on dialup, and that image is so large it's making the thread not load.

http://absolutewrite.com/forums/showthread.php?304595-FAQ-Image-Size-Guidelines

Thanks

 

[Cyia]

I can't speak to life in Maine, or life with a same-sex partner, which would usually keep me from posting, but the mention of early-80's and girls in school made me stop short. Maybe it's regional, but I started school in 1984, wearing pink jeans. My cousins who were 9 (started school in '75) and 5 (started school in '79) years older than me also wore jeans/overalls to school on a daily basis. Jeans were one of the few things our dress-code allowed. (Texas public school, btw).

I live in a VERY religious community, where the majority thinks women in pants are a one way ticket to hell,

I always find this one weird, considering the Biblical version of gendered clothing was loose pants for women. The men wore dress-like robes.

I don't hide what I am. I am me. I confuse people, I know, I'm male today, female tomorrow, something that isn't one or the other the next day... I comfortable being either gender or no gender at all and switch back and forth.

This is the perfect description of one the characters in my WIP, which is why I keep going back and forth on the appropriate pronoun. Right now I'm using "he," but I'm not sure.

 

[CindyGirl]

So I had a conversation with two coworkers the other day; one of them is trans and one isn't. The cisgender coworker went, "Oh, I saw this obviously male person dressed as a woman and... do i call him trans? How do I know? What's okay?"

So, points to her for asking, but we had to have a conversation about 'how did you know 'he' was male? did you see his penis?' (She said yes - he obviously had a penis because tight pants - this opened up the idea of packing/softies, and yeah. It was a colorful workday filled with LGBT education!)

So when I breached the idea that he might be genderfluid or genderqueer, the trans coworker threw up her hands and was like "See, that I just don't get! One way one day, another the next!" (Transcoworker is normally very smart about these things, but has her blindspots, obviously.)

Considering the movement for trans representation, what are we going to see next with nonbinary or simply non-gender conforming characters?

I've been reading the first book of Jane Kindred's series "The Looking Glass Gods - Idol of Bone". She explores gender, gender roles and expectations, as well as gender fluidity in this book. Not everyone will agree with what she describes but she's put it out there which in turn stimulates discussions. I'll be getting the second book in this series soon.

 

[AW Admin]

Last summer, a transsexual (I don't know trans from what to what, or more details, the news reports just said "transsexual") was being bullied by some white-power girls (not uncommon around here) only this particular trans was high on drugs and carrying a knife, so cut one of the bully girls' heads off, in the ice cream department of a grocery store, Saco, Maine, 4 miles from my driveway.

This is a gross misrepresentation.

Connor Maccalister at the time of the attack was presenting as male. Connor has since subsequently indicated that she wished to be addressed as she/her, and that she had stopped taking testosterone. Later Connor indicated that he identified as male.

Court documents indicate that she selected Ms. Boudreau, the woman she attacked and killed because she looked weak. Connor plead guilty.

The victim was essentially randomly selected because she looked weak, and was followed into the store. She was not selected because of bullying Connor or because of a previous relationship or contact with Connor.

Maine State Police Detective Kristopher Kennedy said in a written affidavit filed with the court in August that MacCalister confessed to police in the hours immediately after the murder that she was “angry with life” and “wanted to get back at someone.”
Kennedy wrote that MacCalister went to the supermarket with plans to kill several people and wanted to target an elderly woman who wouldn’t resist. Police have said MacCalister and Boudreau didn’t know each other.

http://www.pressherald.com/2015/08/20/supermarket-where-fatal-stabbing-took-place-reopens/

She plead guilty to the attack and received a life in prison sentence.

 

[BaneStryfe]

I so wanted to comment on stuff from the first page but I'm too tired to read through all four pages just in case lol. It's nice to see people talking about genderfluid and genderqueer stuff. I find that while trans issues are being talked about a lot more those of us who fall more into the middle ground aren't being noticed or even believed in. It's surprising how many people tell me I'm not doing it right because I don't feel like I should be a boy but don't necessarily want to be a girl.

I hate labels, always have. The best label I've found to explain what I am is genderfluid, but even that doesn't quite explain it. My gender identity doesn't really change, it's pretty stable. My issue is that I don't want to be a man. I hate being a man. I hate looking like a man. I hate acting like a man. Problem is... I'd been doing it for 18 years before I even started crossdressing, and now almost 12 years later I'm still usually forced into being a man mostly because that's how life is working out. The second problem is that I've been mostly a man for almost 30 years... that makes is scary to consider permanent changes to become a woman. I don't know how to be a woman. But I think the biggest fear I have about the whole thing is:Even if I have surgery, become a woman, would that make me truly happy?
That has become the question that frames my entire life at this point. I'm not happy as a man, but who says I'll be happy as a woman? So I consider myself genderfluid because while I want to dress and act and be considered a woman, I don't have the courage or the confidence to be much else but a man. So most of my time is spent as a man, with only amazing periods of time where I get to be the woman most of me wants to be.

Now if I could only get my parent's condescending and insulting voices out of my head when I do so...

 

[kuwisdelu]

I hate labels, always have. The best label I've found to explain what I am is genderfluid, but even that doesn't quite explain it. My gender identity doesn't really change, it's pretty stable. My issue is that I don't want to be a man. I hate being a man. I hate looking like a man. I hate acting like a man. Problem is... I'd been doing it for 18 years before I even started crossdressing, and now almost 12 years later I'm still usually forced into being a man mostly because that's how life is working out. The second problem is that I've been mostly a man for almost 30 years... that makes is scary to consider permanent changes to become a woman. I don't know how to be a woman. But I think the biggest fear I have about the whole thing is:Even if I have surgery, become a woman, would that make me truly happy?
That has become the question that frames my entire life at this point. I'm not happy as a man, but who says I'll be happy as a woman? So I consider myself genderfluid because while I want to dress and act and be considered a woman, I don't have the courage or the confidence to be much else but a man. So most of my time is spent as a man, with only amazing periods of time where I get to be the woman most of me wants to be.

Now if I could only get my parent's condescending and insulting voices out of my head when I do so...

I just spent 4 years where you are right now, thinking I was genderfluid before finally realizing I'm supposed to be female and deciding to transition at the age of 26.

Which isn't to discredit genderqueer and other non-binary identities at all. Maybe you are in fact genderfluid, but it's important to remember that non-binary people can medically transition too, if that's what they want. It's never too late. Or rather, it's only too late when you're dead. So think long and hard about who you want to be and how you want to live your life. Change is scary, but sometimes resigning yourself to stasis forever is even scarier.

One thing that finally led me to decide to transition (before I knew for sure whether I was genderfluid or female) was realizing that genderfluid people can transition, too, and deciding I'd rather live with a female body regardless of whether my gender identity was ultimately binary or non-binary.

But it's important to remember that transition isn't a cure-all. It won't magically make everything better. But it can help. It can help you get to the point where you're able to make the other changes you need to make to be happy. If you're experiencing gender dysphoria, it will help with that.

Lastly, surgery doesn't make anyone a woman. Trans women are already women. Trans men are already men. And many trans people never get surgery. Hormones are a hell of a drug. Understanding the physiological and psychological changes the proper sex hormones can make on their own (research this) is another factor that led me to decide I wanted to transition. I'm only 2 months into HRT (hormone replacement therapy) and already I'm much happier with my body running on estrogen. I don't know if I'll ever get surgery or not. Right now, at least, surgery isn't very important to me, but that may change down the road.

Most of the changes induced by HRT are completely reversible. For trans-feminine people, the irreversible changes include breast growth (reversible through mastectomy) and potential sterility (this is random, but you can bank sperm if it's a concern). For trans-masculine people, irreversible changes include facial hair growth (reversible through laser or electrolysis) and voice changes (voice therapy is an option, just like it is for trans-feminine people). Everything else (changes in body shape through fat redistribution, changes in skin and hair texture, psychological effects, etc.) will eventually reverse when HRT is stopped.

Many genderqueer people medically transition because they'd be happier with a more masculine or feminine body, and many others just do low-dose HRT for the psychological benefits without as many physical changes. You can be genderfluid and still transition.

But if you don't want to transition, that's okay, too.

It doesn't make you less trans if you can't or don't want to transition.

If you're unsure, talk to a gender-friendly therapist.

 

[BenPanced]

Saying that a woman who is wearing pants (since the mid twentieth century at least) is cross dressing is a bit like saying a Scottish man who wears kilts is cross dressing.

A few years ago, I was in Chicago for the annual RT Booklovers Convention. Several of us had gotten on the elevator and one of the other men, slightly inebriated but that doesn't excuse him, piped up about my long hair, earrings, and Utilikilt. Except he called it a skirt. A woman in the back of the elevator immediately responded, "It's a kilt. Men from Scotland wear them." And the guy slipped into uncomfortable silence.

 

[BaneStryfe]

Many genderqueer people medically transition because they'd be happier with a more masculine or feminine body, and many others just do low-dose HRT for the psychological benefits without as many physical changes. You can be genderfluid and still transition.

But if you don't want to transition, that's okay, too.

It doesn't make you less trans if you can't or don't want to transition.

If you're unsure, talk to a gender-friendly therapist.

I think I'd be happier with a more feminine body. I'm pretty sure of it actually. Unfortunately my body right now is...blatantly male. I'm very hairy, bulky, and have a face that is hard to make look good in a dress lol. HRT is something I've been interested in, but even it has it's drawbacks. I'm still interested in women, after all, and I am currently married and have an awesome one-year old son who so far doesn't mind his daddy wearing dresses. My wife loves me, I know, and she's promised to help me with whatever transition I choose to make, but she isn't into women like that and I know deep down inside that if I did transition I'd lose her as a wife. She's promised we'd still be friends which is wonderful, but I know we both suck at keeping in contact with friends. It's something I'm just not very good at. So the idea of only having her as a friend if I make these changes is enough to seriously reconsider them.

wow I'm talking a lot about myself here. I apologize. It's nice to be able to get it off my chest sometimes.

I've been looking for a gender-friendly therapist. There are a handful in the city I live in now, but only one that is heavily recommended. Of course she has a year+ long waiting list. Aside from availability there is, of course, the subject of money. Jobs are in short supply here in Edmonton right now and I haven't been able to get one. My wonderful wife is going to university right now, to take her bachelor of arts in psychology. She wants to be a sex/gender therapist. She wants to help people like me who grew up with a family who said that wanting to be feminine wasn't something men should do and I had to stop. She's amazing. She really is.

 

[KTC]

I'm not happy as a man, but who says I'll be happy as a woman? So I consider myself genderfluid because while I want to dress and act and be considered a woman, I don't have the courage or the confidence to be much else but a man. So most of my time is spent as a man, with only amazing periods of time where I get to be the woman most of me wants to be.

This ENTIRELY! I'm happy that I get to be who I am in a loving relationship with someone who--though he may not completely understand--allows me to be so. He doesn't mock any of it...just goes with the flow. He tells me how pretty my nail polish is, etc, etc, etc...and always uses either gender neutral terms or female terminology. Because he knows that's how I work internally...whether or not I am displaying as that gender at the time or not. It's getting so much better with his acceptance. And it was instantaneous...like he already knew this about me before I came out to him. I get texts with, "I love my girl" or "How's my girl" or "Hey, beautiful". Little things...they are rescuing me right now. But, yeah...I don't think I will ever make the transition...but it's safe and good to know that I can survive in the middle land between the two.