I want to hide under a rock. (vent warning)

ejaycee · Aug 15, 2010

So there's a new guy in my writer's group. Mid-fifties, big guy, a bit simple. He has absolutely no concept of boundaries, and I can sort of understand that because he has Asperger's Syndrome, like me. But he's started getting creepier and creepier.

Every time I see him he says something like "Wow! I still can't believe you're so young! You know, if I saw you walking down the street I'd think you were much older. MUCH older."

Might seem innocent enough in itself, but it's coupled with a hug, and not a shoulder-patting-friendly-hug--a hands-slightly-lower-than-they-really-should-be kind of hug. Plus, last week we had an exercise where the topic was "imagine", and he says "Alright, blokes! Imagine you're with your fantasy woman!" And he looked. Right. At. ME. :rant:

Thing is, he really is a child in a man's body. And he's not that bad a bloke, he just knows nothing of boundaries. The others in the group are aware of it and one of them has offered to have a chat with him, but I don't know... GAH!

Anyway. Imma hide under a rock now. Good evening.

Sophia · Aug 15, 2010

I used to think that I must be shy, but this is something that I have never, ever let happen to me - I shut it down instantly. YOU should be the one to have a chat with him. Step back if he comes in for a hug and put your hand up, palm out. There is no need for hugging in a writer's group with a new member. Don't let yourself be seen as weak, and don't regard yourself as weak. You are under no obligation to be 'nice' - ordinary politeness and decorum are fine, and do not mean being a doormat.

I'm sorry this sounds like a rude lecture - I don't intend it to be. I've met a lot of women who are very outgoing and strong in social situations, but still seem to feel they must defer to a man when he crosses their boundaries, and I react badly to it. Anytime he crosses the line, just say, calmly and clearly, that it's not appropriate.

Edited to add: YOU get to decide what your own boundaries are. No one else gets to tell you that they're unreasonable.

ejaycee · Aug 15, 2010

ElaraSophia said:
I used to think that I must be shy, but this is something that I have never, ever let happen to me - I shut it down instantly. YOU should be the one to have a chat with him. Step back if he comes in for a hug and put your hand up, palm out. There is no need for hugging in a writer's group with a new member. Don't let yourself be seen as weak, and don't regard yourself as weak. You are under no obligation to be 'nice' - ordinary politeness and decorum are fine, and do not mean being a doormat.

I'm sorry this sounds like a rude lecture - I don't intend it to be. I've met a lot of women who are very outgoing and strong in social situations, but still seem to feel they must defer to a man when he crosses their boundaries, and I react badly to it. Anytime he crosses the line, just say, calmly and clearly, that it's not appropriate.

Edited to add: YOU get to decide what your own boundaries are. No one else gets to tell you that they're unreasonable.

Don't worry, it doesn't sound rude, and I know you're right. I'll make sure to be more firm when I next see him. I just haven't wanted to scare him away from the group, I think I see too much of me when I was little in his awkwardness. Which is weird, because he's fifty-six and I'm sixteen. Ah well. I'll be as gentle as I can.

Thanks again.

KellyAssauer said:
Submit your version of "Imagine you're with your fantasy woman!"

That might chase him off.

Buahaha! That would actually be awesome.

Ol' Fashioned Girl · Aug 15, 2010

ElaraSophia said:
.... YOU get to decide what your own boundaries are. No one else gets to tell you that they're unreasonable.

Amen.

alleycat · Aug 15, 2010

ElaraSophia said:
YOU get to decide what your own boundaries are. No one else gets to tell you that they're unreasonable.

Very well said.

Sweetleaf · Aug 15, 2010

I have nothing to add beyond the exceptional advice you have thus far been given, but YOU'RE SIXTEEN?!?

In that case his behaviour is seriously inappropriate, especially if he knows how old you are.

Good luck, and I hope he backs off soon. :Hug2:

Bookewyrme · Aug 15, 2010

Sweetleaf said:
I have nothing to add beyond the exceptional advice you have thus far been given, but YOU'RE SIXTEEN?!?

In that case his behaviour is seriously inappropriate, especially if he knows how old you are.

I actually had the same thought. Good luck ejaycee, and definitely do NOT let him continue this behavior. From the sounds of it, unless it's stopped his behaviour will continue to escalate into progressively creepier territory.

Yeshanu · Aug 15, 2010

People with AS can be taught about boundaries. Start where he's at, and where you're comfortable. A good rule might be, "No hugs." Speak to him in absolutes. For example: "[This specific behaviour] is not acceptable. Don't do it ever again."

He knows how old you are. He seems intelligent enough to understand that he's skirting the line legally. He could end up in very serious trouble if he doesn't learn to control his actions around you or other young women, and I'm not certain the courts would be very lenient.

You might also want to speak with others in the group about stronger house rules for the imagination sessions--a group with a sixteen year old member SHOULD NOT be going into erotic territory (no matter whether you feel comfortable with it or not,as you're still not of legal age), and it's really sad that the other members of the group weren't fast enough to figure that out. If he can't behave, then he should be asked to leave.

Devil Ledbetter · Aug 15, 2010

AS or not, when those little alarm bells start sounding in your head, please heed them. Do not make excuses for him. Do not provide an innocent diagnosis that explains away his rude and crude behavior. Be firm, be clear, and be loudly offended if the situation calls for it.

Do not be alone with him.

And stop with hugging of any kind. There is such thing as a friendly hug, but when it doesn't feel friendly, it's time to whip out the 10 foot pole and keep that person at a distance.

Button · Aug 15, 2010

I say let the other guys in the group help, also. Yeah, you have to stick up for yourself, but there's nothing wrong with getting help. I rely on the services of kindly gentlemen a lot.

Not because I can't do it myself, but because there's no need to do it alone.

Let the guys help out.

mccardey · Aug 15, 2010

Gosh, this takes me back!!

Originally Posted by ElaraSophia
Step back if he comes in for a hug and put your hand up, palm out. There is no need for hugging in a writer's group with a new member. Don't let yourself be seen as weak, and don't regard yourself as weak. You are under no obligation to be 'nice' - ordinary politeness and decorum are fine, and do not mean being a doormat.

This is excellent advice.

Some posters say you should be rude, but while I think that's fine if you can do it, I couldn't when I was 16, which made it a very insecure defence. Since you're 16 it's a great idea, as Button says, to let the other adults speak up for you as well. Part of the appeal may be in the fact that he sees you as powerless. The best way to fight his perception of that would be for you to be strong as Elara says - and for the other adults to back you up in no uncertain terms.

Just by the way - his behaviour isn't okay, and it's not your fault. At 16 you're not supposed to be able to handle this kind of thing entirely on your own. Some can - I couldn't. And I've found since then that many kind-hearted adults would still find it tricky.

So just to repeat - He needs to be told "No!" by you - but you need to be backed up by the others and he needs to know that you are being backed up.

You're not making a drama out of this. You're just handling it in the most simple, sensible and effective way.

Take care!

SWest · Aug 15, 2010

"My parents have said that you are NOT to touch me. At all. I have to tell them every time you do."

Blame the "establishment" if you must, but do not let anyone make you a meek target. This type of behavior is predatory, no matter how socially awkward the person might be. If he is able to be socialized, a statement of autonomy will go far. If he cannot be socialized, then allowing things to go any farther will only be damaging to your own safety. Your spleen knows this is wrong. Follow your guts.

There are limits to how you can be helped in this type of forum (like, we cannot really do anything at all to protect you), so do tell your parents or another trusted adult who can help you in-person.

defyalllogic · Aug 15, 2010

i have to agree that you're age actually makes it way worse than just awkward. people with aspergers know laws and if he's older he should know you can't be creepy to a teenager.

if there are others (adults) in the group you feel comfortable with, it's not bad manners to make a friend and stick close. imagine if your parents red what you posted... OUTRAGE. so if you made friends with someone who happens to be a parent, they might help you look out for yourself.

it is important to not let him think it doesn't bother you or you think it's funny or okay.

good luck!

Silver King · Aug 15, 2010

Excellent advice offered in this thread thus far.

I just wanted to add that this part of the original post causes additional alarm for me:

ejaycee said:
...Every time I see him he says something like "Wow! I still can't believe you're so young! You know, if I saw you walking down the street I'd think you were much older. MUCH older."

That's a tired old line used by adults to make juveniles think they're more mature than they really are, and it's meant as an insincere compliment to swell young heads while lowering defenses. Don't fall for it. You're obviously smarter than he thinks, or would ever dream possible "at your age." Use those smarts to avoid him whenever possible and, better yet, cut off all contact and ignore him completely.

Amadan · Aug 15, 2010

Yeah, just chiming in to say this is creepier than creepy. I thought his behavior was creepy and inappropriate when I imagined you were closer to his age, but when you said you were sixteen -- oh, hell no, I don't care if he has AS. "No concept of boundaries" my ass -- what a coincidence that his inability to understand boundaries only manifests when the boundaries are those of an underage girl he finds attractive. I'll bet he understands just fine the boundaries around someone he knows won't put up with that nonsense.

He needs to be shut down. Hard. If you don't have the heart to do it, then get some of the adults in your circle to do so, and make it clear that he is making you feel uncomfortable and unsafe. And if they aren't willing to step up and put an end to it, you need to find a group that doesn't let creepy old dudes prey on teenagers. And remember, if he's pulling this shit on you, he's probably doing it with other girls whenever he gets the opportunity.

ejaycee · Aug 15, 2010

Thanks all for your advice.

Much appreciated.

Just so you know, I haven't been encouraging. When he's swooped in for a hug, I've just given him a pat on the back and pulled myself out, and I pretty much ignore him for the entire meeting. The others had been protective (they haven't just been standing by) but it hadn't been directly attacking him. Of course, Jon being Jon, he's not very good at getting the hint. Also, this whole business has been a very recent occurrence, It's only been obvious the last two meetings.

BUT, I just found out yesterday that they all had a 'chat' with him after I left last week. He's not coming back. I'm not even going to ask what happened--I know they would have verbally torn him to shreds. Hopefully not physically.

It's definitely a relief. I can come out from my rock now. Plus, I know I won't see him again because he keeps to himself, lives ages away, and he has no idea whereabouts I live.

So yeah, thanks you guys! Your advice and tough love is awesome.

Bookewyrme · Aug 15, 2010

ejaycee said:
BUT, I just found out yesterday that they all had a 'chat' with him after I left last week. He's not coming back. I'm not even going to ask what happened--I know they would have verbally torn him to shreds. Hopefully not physically. It's definitely a relief. I can come out from my rock now. Plus, I know I won't see him again because he keeps to himself, lives ages away, and he has no idea whereabouts I live.

This is really good to hear, ejaycee! I'm so glad the situation was taken care of before anything really bad happened.

ejaycee · Aug 15, 2010

It's true, they're about the best people you can find.

Thanks you two.

Jessianodel · Aug 15, 2010

Can I just say he's creepy? Like, insane psycho creepy.

nighttimer · Aug 16, 2010

ejaycee said:
Don't worry, it doesn't sound rude, and I know you're right. I'll make sure to be more firm when I next see him. I just haven't wanted to scare him away from the group, I think I see too much of me when I was little in his awkwardness. Which is weird, because he's fifty-six and I'm sixteen.

Glad to read the guy is persona non grata in your writing group because there is nothing remotely cute or appropriate about a 56-year-old man putting his arms around a 16-year-old girl unless she's related to him by blood.

I have been the only male for long stretches in my writing group and I've seen women come and go over the years. Not once have I ever considered putting the moves on one of them because my interests are in reading the works of others and sharing mine.

If I want to hook up I'll find a less literary group of ladies to chase.

Sophia · Aug 16, 2010

ejaycee, I'm so glad it's worked out, and that your group has your back!

I just wanted to say that I hadn't looked at your profile before I made my first post, and had been thinking when I wrote it that you were perhaps in your 30s. I wouldn't have suggested you should handle it all on your own if I'd known you were 16, or worded it in that rough way, and I apologise for that, and I think mccardey was spot on in her post.

ejaycee said:
Just so you know, I haven't been encouraging.

Ooh - I bet you anything that no one here thought you were, at all. You did nothing wrong. :Hug2:

ejaycee · Aug 16, 2010

nighttimer said:
Glad to read the guy is persona non grata in your writing group because there is nothing remotely cute or appropriate about a 56-year-old man putting his arms around a 16-year-old girl unless she's related to him by blood.

I know, I hadn't really looked at it quite that way before... I suppose because I'm the youngest person there by almost four decades. You forget the age difference after a while. Probably not a good thing, at least not in this case.

ElaraSophia said:
ejaycee, I'm so glad it's worked out, and that your group has your back!

I just wanted to say that I hadn't looked at your profile before I made my first post, and had been thinking when I wrote it that you were perhaps in your 30s. I wouldn't have suggested you should handle it all on your own if I'd known you were 16, or worded it in that rough way, and I apologise for that, and I think mccardey was spot on in her post.

Oh, don't worry about it. :Hug2:

Really, your advice is just as relevant at my age as it would be were I to be thirty-odd. Bit of tough lovin' never hurt anybody.

Thank you.

Yeshanu · Aug 16, 2010

I'm glad everything has worked out for you, ejaycee.

Snowstorm · Aug 16, 2010

ejaycee said:
... I just found out yesterday that they all had a 'chat' with him after I left last week. He's not coming back. I'm not even going to ask what happened--I know they would have verbally torn him to shreds. Hopefully not physically. It's definitely a relief. I can come out from my rock now. Plus, I know I won't see him again because he keeps to himself, lives ages away, and he has no idea whereabouts I live.

I'm late to this thread, but I'm heartened that your group's members jumped in. Good on 'em! They're looking out for you, and I hope their actions makes you feel ... protected (for lack of a better word). Good on them and good for you for seeking advice. Your writer's group sounds wonderful.

I want to hide under a rock. (vent warning)

knows nothing of your ruined garden

knows nothing of your ruined garden

Hand? What hand?

Still around

Momentary lapse of reason

Imagined half of it.

Elf Queen

Come on you stranger, you legend,

Resident in Question

In the garden...

i'm a girl. (i have tendonitis)

Megalops Erectus

knows nothing of your ruined garden

Imagined half of it.

knows nothing of your ruined garden

Blessed by the AW Gods

No Gods No Masters

knows nothing of your ruined garden

Elf Queen

Baby plot bunneh sniffs out a clue