Have Book Need Publisher

Balldez · Mar 9, 2008

I have written a very well researched book about the obesity epidemic but I cannot even get an agent to read any of it. They tell me that because I do not have the letters MD or PhD after my name no publisher will take is seriously no matter how good it is. I point out to them that doctors have been writing books about diets and people are still getting fatter but that does not seem to phase them.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

veinglory · Mar 9, 2008

If that is their only objection and those are the types of publishers you want, you might get a lettered expert to write you a positive preface.

Balldez · Mar 9, 2008

veinglory said:
If that is their only objection and those are the types of publishers you want, you might get a lettered expert to write you a positive preface.

Michael Karolchyk from Anti-Gym has a agreed to write the foreword but he is also having the same problem getting anyone to take him seriously. I have also been in contact with MeMe Roth from NAAO and she is also working on getting a book published. I was thinking of going to a diploma mill and getting a "degree."

I think an MD would be a good choice but my book is not kind to the medical profession.

I really get the idea that the publishing business if full of very arrogant and conservative people. I went to s site called Predators & Editors and when I went to the agent's page I found that there were many more listed as not recommended than recommended. I recall a booking agent my band used to deal with and he was a real slime but he had all the clubs sewed up so if you wanted to play you had to deal with him.

I also have been warned about some very unscrupulous publishers.

veinglory · Mar 9, 2008

I doubt they would be impressed by a mill degree. Publishers that focussed on credentials will know the difference.

ResearchGuy · Mar 9, 2008

Balldez said:
. . . called Predtors & Editors and when I went to the agent's page I found that there were many more listed as not recommended than recommended. . . .

That is because P&E specializes in exposing scams. It is NOT a random sample of agents.

You have your work cut out for you from square one. Your first mistake was in writing a book before researching the market and what is necessary in order to attract the interest of an agent or publisher. You do not face an impossible task, but it is an extremely difficult one with many potential pitfalls.

Here are some starting points:

Basic homework

Go to some big bookstores, with pen and notebook. Look through the kinds of books you want to write. You should of course already be reading such books, as it is unlikely that you can write well what you do not choose to read.
Take notes on publishers. Take notes on mentions of agents in acknowledgements. Those publishers and agents are potential targets for your manuscript.
Contact publishers who publish the kind of book you have written or want to write. Ask for their guidelines for authors. (You might be able to find them on the Web.) Study the guidelines.
See which publishers accept unagented submissions. See the next section for resources, and also look at publishers’ websites. Publishers that do not accept “unsolicited submissions” might read a query letter. If the publisher responds to the query with a request for a book proposal or manuscript, then the manuscript or book proposal is solicited, not unsolicited.
Look up information (see next section) on agents who have represented manuscripts like yours or are seeking the kind of thing you have written.
Keep a running list of potential agents and publishers. You can do that in a file on your PC or on plain old note cards or in a notebook. Leave room for adding comments later.

Hit the books

A handful of essential reference books belong on your shelves, well thumbed, marked up, and flagged with Post-Its.

Trade references

Writer’s Market (latest edition), published by Writer’s Digest Press. This annual volume lists numerous publishers of books and periodicals and some literary agents, with useful information on what sorts of books they accept and other conditions. It also includes articles on writing and publishing.

Guide to Literary Agents (latest edition). Another annual from Writer’s Digest Press. It includes chapters on formatting manuscripts, writing queries, and more.

Jeff Herman’s Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents (latest edition). This is a more selective guide, but also more detailed. It excludes periodicals, as the focus is on books. It also includes valuable articles on such topics as writing queries and book proposals.

The Writer’s Handbook (latest edition), published by The Writer Books. Another directory of publishers plus advice on writing. Older volumes, which might be available in libraries, can be valuable for their articles on many aspects of writing. (This annual might not be as easy to find as the ubiquitous Writer’s Market.)

Literary Marketplace. This is the comprehensive guide to publishers and literary agents. You can find it in large libraries.

If you have to pick only one, I recommend Writer’s Market.

Resources for finding agents and publishers

In addition to the articles in Writer’s Market and comparable books in the previous section, the following are worth your time and money:

Bulletproof Book Proposals, by Pam Brodowsky and Eric Neuhaus (Writer’s Digest Books, 2006).

The Making of a Bestseller, by Brian Hill and Dee Power (Dearborn Trade Publishing, 2005).

How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen (Sourcebooks, 2006). Larsen is a long-established agent (Larsen/Pomada Agency).

--Ken

Balldez · Mar 9, 2008

ResearchGuy said:
That is because P&E specializes in exposing scams. It is NOT a random sample of agents.

Actually P&E recommends reputable agents.

You have your work cut out for you from square one. Your first mistake was in writing a book before researching the market and what is necessary in order to attract the interest of an agent or publisher. You do not face an impossible task, but it is an extremely difficult one with many potential pitfalls.

Actually I did the research. I read most of the popular diets books. I watched the book shelves and Amazon and saw that there was a new book published every week. Most diet books are poorly written and a drag to read. The biggest problem with diet books is the information they present is not helping people lose weight. This book could be placed in several section of a book store because it fits several categories. As to my lack of credentials, if you look at the weight loss success of people who have read books by today's diet gurus one would see a dismal 2% success rate.

Here are some starting points:

Basic homework

Go to some big bookstores, with pen and notebook. Look through the kinds of books you want to write. You should of course already be reading such books, as it is unlikely that you can write well what you do not choose to read.
Take notes on publishers. Take notes on mentions of agents in acknowledgements. Those publishers and agents are potential targets for your manuscript.
Contact publishers who publish the kind of book you have written or want to write. Ask for their guidelines for authors. (You might be able to find them on the Web.) Study the guidelines.
See which publishers accept unagented submissions. See the next section for resources, and also look at publishers’ websites. Publishers that do not accept “unsolicited submissions” might read a query letter. If the publisher responds to the query with a request for a book proposal or manuscript, then the manuscript or book proposal is solicited, not unsolicited.
Look up information (see next section) on agents who have represented manuscripts like yours or are seeking the kind of thing you have written.
Keep a running list of potential agents and publishers. You can do that in a file on your PC or on plain old note cards or in a notebook. Leave room for adding comments later.

Hit the books

A handful of essential reference books belong on your shelves, well thumbed, marked up, and flagged with Post-Its.

Trade references

Writer’s Market (latest edition), published by Writer’s Digest Press. This annual volume lists numerous publishers of books and periodicals and some literary agents, with useful information on what sorts of books they accept and other conditions. It also includes articles on writing and publishing.

Guide to Literary Agents (latest edition). Another annual from Writer’s Digest Press. It includes chapters on formatting manuscripts, writing queries, and more.

Jeff Herman’s Guide to Book Publishers, Editors & Literary Agents (latest edition). This is a more selective guide, but also more detailed. It excludes periodicals, as the focus is on books. It also includes valuable articles on such topics as writing queries and book proposals.

The Writer’s Handbook (latest edition), published by The Writer Books. Another directory of publishers plus advice on writing. Older volumes, which might be available in libraries, can be valuable for their articles on many aspects of writing. (This annual might not be as easy to find as the ubiquitous Writer’s Market.)

Literary Marketplace. This is the comprehensive guide to publishers and literary agents. You can find it in large libraries.

If you have to pick only one, I recommend Writer’s Market.

Resources for finding agents and publishers

In addition to the articles in Writer’s Market and comparable books in the previous section, the following are worth your time and money:

Bulletproof Book Proposals, by Pam Brodowsky and Eric Neuhaus (Writer’s Digest Books, 2006).

The Making of a Bestseller, by Brian Hill and Dee Power (Dearborn Trade Publishing, 2005).

How to Get a Literary Agent, by Michael Larsen (Sourcebooks, 2006). Larsen is a long-established agent (Larsen/Pomada Agency).

--Ken

I have read some articles on writing letters of query and I have been careful to follow each agents unique guidelines. My book is explained in my book. If I could explain it is a query letter then I would not have needed 20K words in one chapter alone explaining the flaws in the diet books I reviewed. This is new stuff and I is not something that can be explained in a few paragraphs. I even had to invent new words in order to convey certain concepts.

Ken thank you for the sound advice. I have done a lot of what you have suggested but I have not read the books you listed.

One problem I face is this book is unique. Unlike most diet books it dose not follow a formula. The typical formula in a diet book is to act as an apologist for the dieter, villianize a food group, justify their absurd theory, ignore reality and then fill the next 200 pages with recipes. I don't want to right a book like that. This book debunks people like Atkins and Dr Phil by using available data sets and my own reconnaissance and study of obese people in ways no one else has ever tried. I did not want to write a formula book loaded with worthless information.

My plea to agents has been that this book is worthwhile because it contains valuable information and it is a really good read for a non fiction book. I am sure it will create a lot of buzz because it is so unique and bold.

I am seeking a co author with credentials and I am more than willing to remain a ghost writer on this project.

ResearchGuy · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
. . .If I could explain it is a query letter then I would not have needed 20K words in one chapter alone explaining the flaws in the diet books I reviewed. . . .

If you cannot get to the point (hook, purpose, qualifications, market) in a one-page query, cannot pique an agent's or publisher's interest in that span, you are not going to attract any interest. Get to the point in 200 words and you have a chance. Else, plan on self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or vanity publishing.

I do not want to sound unkind, but it would not be kind to mislead you on that most essential issue.

--Ken

flashgordon · Mar 10, 2008

I think you just need to explore some smaller presses. There are a lot that deal with health-related titles and they are not overly concerned with your credentials. Most of the smaller presses don't work through agents, they just take direct queries. It also seems odd that they give the "credential excuse" since there are tons of books out there on diet, health, psychology, etc. from non-Ph.D. or MD people.

And I agree, we have a huge obesity problem but a plethora of diet books... somethings not working.

Balldez · Mar 10, 2008

ResearchGuy said:
If you cannot get to the point (hook, purpose, qualifications, market) in a one-page query, cannot pique an agent's or publisher's interest in that span, you are not going to attract any interest. Get to the point in 200 words and you have a chance. Else, plan on self-publishing, subsidy publishing, or vanity publishing.

I do not want to sound unkind, but it would not be kind to mislead you on that most essential issue.

--Ken

I am not sure what will get their interest. I tell them this is a book about the plague of the 21st century. I tell them that 400,000 people die each year because of obesity and that my book contains the solution to the obesity riddle. I present a weight loss method that has a better chance of working than any of the harebrained schemes represented by charlatans like Dr Phil and late and bloated Robert Atkins. The fact that Atkin's rubbish did not come with a caveat saying this diet advice is dangerous tells me that the publishers of Atkin's trash are unscrupulous money grubbing lowlife rat bastards.

The most essential issue is this work is very important and it is of interest to every human being in the United States. The fact that is challenges all the conventional wisdom by using available data sets and innovative research methods should be enough to make them curious as to what else is in it.

I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Here is what I think the problem could be. This book does not speakin dulcimer tones of and to the obese. Every other book on the subject tells them that it is not their fault. This book tells fat people that obesity is entirely their fault and it does it using their own words and several scientific certainties. Given the fact that humans are habitually dishonest and vain, telling them something that they have cleverly managed to deny makes telling the truth regarding their behavior unpopular. If you couple that with the fact that 67% of Americans are indeed gluttons to one degree or another the odd of not finding someone in the publishing stream who is not a hedonistic and easily offended glutton are slim. People love to be patronized with lies. Why else would they elect Bush twice? I think the problem may be publishers have been feeding the public what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. Telling someone that their obesity in entirely their fault is unpopular. Telling someone that their behavior is killing their kids is unpopular. Suggesting that gluttony is unpopular. Suggesting that America is the fattest country on earth because its citizenry is a bunch of weak willed gluttons riding a denial train to hell.

I was told by several agents that you cannot insult the reader. I think that is crap. People love to be insulted. Americans like nothing more than to express their phony moral outrage. For instance, I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids because if they cared even a little about their kids they would be good role models and not pass the life threatening illnesses that come with bad dietary habits onto their kids if indeed they really loved them. Of course the the only response to that is to figure out a way to blame Bill Clinton and the tooth fairy.

I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I point out by example these depraved behaviors that our twisted society has now normalized. I even go so far to suggest that this may be part of an evolutionary process that will eventually act as a selecting agent rendering people of more primitive behaviors extinct due to their inability to reproduce.

I explain the damage gluttony is doing to the US economically. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains. It is not an easy sell something when you are unequivocally telling an unpopular truth but I will not write any other way. I ran out of bullshit a long time ago.

My other thought is this. Judging by all the drivel that is landing on book store shelves there must be a lot of people in the publishing world that are completely full of shit.

What is going to happen now is all the fat people here are going to get pissed off at me for suggestion something I will eventually prove and that is they are all unabashed gluttons. This is the point. What I have said in this book will spark a strong debate and that is what is needed. I have said that the emperor has no clothes now open you eyes and look.

If you feel insulted because it is my belief that obesity is a result of a moral failing come right back at me.

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 10, 2008

Lots of people who are not doctors or scientists have written very successful books about diet, nutrition, and exercise.

Gary Taubes, Michael Pollan, Dave Zinczenko, Gina Kolata, and others have had best-sellers about diet and nutrition in the last year. All of these folks are journalists, not scientists.

And then there's Mireille Guiliano, who worked in public relations, and has sold a kajillion books in the French Women Don't Get Fat series.

You need to be able to sum up the message of your book effectively in a query letter and proposal, or you won't be able to sell it. Writing a more effective query letter and proposal would be a much better use of your time and energy than acquiring a fake degree.

And, as veinglory says, finding a respected professional to write a foreword or introduction for your book couldn't hurt.

DeadlyAccurate · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Writing maxim: show, don't tell.

A good writer doesn't have to tell everyone their book is a thesaurus-full of adjectives. The query and writing samples will show that.

BenPanced · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
I am not sure what will get their interest. I tell them this is a book about the plague of the 21st century. I tell them that 400,000 people die each year because of obesity and that my book contains the solution to the obesity riddle. I present a weight loss method that has a better chance of working than any of the harebrained schemes represented by charlatans like Dr Phil and late and bloated Robert Atkins. The fact that Atkin's rubbish did not come with a caveat saying this diet advice is dangerous tells me that the publishers of Atkin's trash are unscrupulous money grubbing lowlife rat bastards.

The most essential issue is this work is very important and it is of interest to every human being in the United States. The fact that is challenges all the conventional wisdom by using available data sets and innovative research methods should be enough to make them curious as to what else is in it.

I tell them it is accurate, well written, unique, powerful, controversial and worthy of publication.

Here is what I think the problem could be. This book does not speakin dulcimer tones of and to the obese. Every other book on the subject tells them that it is not their fault. This book tells fat people that obesity is entirely their fault and it does it using their own words and several scientific certainties. Given the fact that humans are habitually dishonest and vain, telling them something that they have cleverly managed to deny makes telling the truth regarding their behavior unpopular. If you couple that with the fact that 67% of Americans are indeed gluttons to one degree or another the odd of not finding someone in the publishing stream who is not a hedonistic and easily offended glutton are slim. People love to be patronized with lies. Why else would they elect Bush twice? I think the problem may be publishers have been feeding the public what they want to hear and not what they need to hear. Telling someone that their obesity in entirely their fault is unpopular. Telling someone that their behavior is killing their kids is unpopular. Suggesting that gluttony is unpopular. Suggesting that America is the fattest country on earth because its citizenry is a bunch of weak willed gluttons riding a denial train to hell.

I was told by several agents that you cannot insult the reader. I think that is crap. People love to be insulted. Americans like nothing more than to express their phony moral outrage. For instance, I contend that fat people are immoral gormandizers who love food more than they love their kids because if they cared even a little about their kids they would be good role models and not pass the life threatening illnesses that come with bad dietary habits onto their kids if indeed they really loved them. Of course the the only response to that is to figure out a way to blame Bill Clinton and the tooth fairy.

I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I point out by example these depraved behaviors that our twisted society has now normalized. I even go so far to suggest that this may be part of an evolutionary process that will eventually act as a selecting agent rendering people of more primitive behaviors extinct due to their inability to reproduce.

I explain the damage gluttony is doing to the US economically. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains. It is not an easy sell something when you are unequivocally telling an unpopular truth but I will not write any other way. I ran out of bullshit a long time ago.

My other thought is this. Judging by all the drivel that is landing on book store shelves there must be a lot of people in the publishing world that are completely full of shit.

What is going to happen now is all the fat people here are going to get pissed off at me for suggestion something I will eventually prove and that is they are all unabashed gluttons. This is the point. What I have said in this book will spark a strong debate and that is what is needed. I have said that the emperor has no clothes now open you eyes and look.

If you feel insulted because it is my belief that obesity is a result of a moral failing come right back at me.

I think this sums it up. Much of what you've written in here is confrontational, anecdotal, and based on personal opinion. Even if you were a professional, if you can't back it up with proven, solid facts and only present insults, personal soapbox, and stories you've heard from others, it's not going to have much of a chance with a larger publisher.

*banninates self from thread*

Sheryl Nantus · Mar 10, 2008

so... fat people are evil?

sounds like a bestseller to me!

(of course, you may want to put some filler in there...)

*chuckles*

awatkins · Mar 10, 2008

I'm going to port this over to Writing Nonfiction Books. Hang on to your keyboards.

Bubastes · Mar 10, 2008

If it's truly controversial, I think a publisher WILL want the book. Controversy sells books. But you have to be able to hook them with a query and/or book proposal first, then follow up with powerful writing.

I suspect that the lack of credentials isn't the problem here. Just my opinion.

Soccer Mom · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors. I present a view that suggests fat people are bad citizens. Instead of making people who want to combat this crisis the villain I explain why fat people and their enablers are the real villains.

Um, who do you propose is going to buy this? Clue gun alert: skinny people don't buy diet books and fat people don't buy books that ridicule them. This might have something to do with the fact that publishers don't want you. They want to sell books, not "provoke discussion."

ResearchGuy · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
I am not sure what will get their interest. . . . .

This will: showing how your book will be profitable for the publisher while fitting within the scope of that publisher's catalog. Nothing else will do it. Writers who want to get their books published make that case and do so effectively.

I believe I can say with absolute confidence that you will not hit that mark, on the basis of what you have posted here.

Try self-publishing. Some informative and useful threads on Absolute Write focus on self-publishing (I have posted many times in those threads). Or approach a vanity press or a subsidy publisher. You might well have a perfect book for PublishAmerica, a widely used vanity press that is unlikely to be troubled by the tone or controversial nature of your book.

Good luck with your endeavors.

--Ken

IceCreamEmpress · Mar 10, 2008

Soccer Mom said:
Um, who do you propose is going to buy this? Clue gun alert: skinny people don't buy diet books and fat people don't buy books that ridicule them.

There is this, too.

Actually, many people whose weight is optimal for their frame and musculature do buy books about diet and nutrition, because they want to maintain good health and fitness. And because they're interested in diet and nutrition in general.

But, yeah, people aren't going to buy a book because they want to know some random person's opinion of obesity as a health or social-policy issue. If a book doesn't present new information (which this doesn't sound like it does), or a new solution to an issue (which this doesn't sound like it does), it's not clear what the point of it is.

And I don't think many people assume that ridicule or scolding is a helpful solution to either a health or a social-policy issue. Although I like the idea of a book called Scold the Fat!. Maybe Ann Coulter would write a foreword for that one.

JeanneTGC · Mar 10, 2008

*sing to the tune of Randy Newman's "Short People"*

Fat people got,
no reason,
Fat people got,
no reason,
Fat people got,
no reason to live...

You know, that song was about the idiocy that is prejudice and bigotry. Really, in this day and age, is attacking any group of people the right way to bring about any kind of positive change?

With no credentials and an attack on the very people who would buy your book, I can understand why no legitimate publisher would want to touch it. As a reader, I sure wouldn't want to touch it.

Birol · Mar 10, 2008

Balldez said:
I will take it a step further. I propose ridiculing fat people as a way to get them to amend their calamitous and baneful behaviors.

And this works so well on elementary school playgrounds.

CasualObserver · Mar 10, 2008

You're proposing rudeness as the latest fad diet, don't want to learn to query because they ought to just read the book instead, and publishers are all a bunch of evil sell-out rat bastards. Sounds very, "I reject your reality and insert my own." Unfortunately for you, I don't think this is the short-cut to breaking in to publication.

I am not sure what will get their interest.

A well-written book, thoroughly researched, with market appeal.

Head over to the Query forum. Listen to what they tell you (that's the important part). Make up a list of agents who work in your genre. Write a good query and submit. Then submit again. Rinse and repeat until you reach the bottom of your list. If you don't have an agent by then, examine your query letters for possible areas of improvement and edit your work. Begin querying from the top. While you're working on all this, begin your second book.

If all this rigamarole gets annoying, no one knows just how annoying better than we do and we adore commiserating.

Sheryl Nantus · Mar 10, 2008

for the life of me I can't tell if this is a serious thread or not...

CasualObserver · Mar 10, 2008

Sheryl Nantus said:
for the life of me I can't tell if this is a serious thread or not...

Look on the bright side. This is our competition.

JeanneTGC · Mar 10, 2008

CasualObserver said:
Look on the bright side. This is our competition.

My day is brightened already!

benbradley · Mar 10, 2008

Have Book Need Publisher

volitare nequeo

volitare nequeo

Resident Curmudgeon

Resident Curmudgeon

Hapless Virago

Absolutely Fazed

THE BLUEBERRY QUEEN OF HADES (he/him)

Holding out for a Superhero...

Not harboring illegal parrot

bananaed

Crypto-fascist

Resident Curmudgeon

Hapless Virago

I *am* Catwoman...and Gini Koch

Around and About

Holding out for a Superhero...

I *am* Catwoman...and Gini Koch

It's a doggy dog world

I am Catwoman...and Gini Koch

I am Catwoman...and Gini Koch