Alcohol at a Wreck Scene

Keyboard Hound · Jan 30, 2008

Does anyone know if alcohol can actually be smelled in blood at a wreck scene where there is no open liquor? I've heard it's possible.

If so, what level of drinking would it take and what would a person blow on a breathalyser to have blood with enough alcohol to smell?

Also, in naming an EMS leader, how many words would be capitalized? Ex. Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Is that correct? In referring to other members of EMS, would the words emergency services staff be capitalized? I'm thinking not.

Thanks for any replies.

Plot Device · Jan 30, 2008

I don't know if alcohol can be sniffed in someone's blood. But most officers say they can smell the alcohol on someone's breath and even in their perspiration.

If this is a situation where they got killed in the car wreck (and threfore have no more breath), I'm a little stymied for an answer.

As for you second question about the names .... hmm... I am not certain. I think it depends on the context (such as: a very very formal courtroom situation vs. hey, Joe, how ya doin'? vs. I'm an EMS tech, ma'am, I'm here to help).

Soccer Mom · Jan 30, 2008

Keyboard Hound said:
Does anyone know if alcohol can actually be smelled in blood at a wreck scene where there is no open liquor? I've heard it's possible.

I don't know. I've never heard that. But you can smell it on the person.

If so, what level of drinking would it take and what would a person blow on a breathalyser to have blood with enough alcohol to smell? The Intoxilyser measures minimal amounts, but the tolerance is =/- .02 BAT. If a person was injured enough for there to be blood, you wouldn't use a BT anyway, but would take blood.

Also, in naming an EMS leader, how many words would be capitalized? Ex. Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Is that correct? In referring to other members of EMS, would the words emergency services staff be capitalized? I'm thinking not.

Thanks for any replies.

I've got no idea on the capitals.

Plot Device · Jan 30, 2008

I need to apologize--I have screenwriting on the brain here, not novel writing. So I was mistakenly thinking you wanted to know how to write the dialogue in a screenplay as far as how other characters would address the EMS tech. But you're a novelist and so you want to know how to write it out in the book.

My bad.

ImagineAZ · Jan 30, 2008

I seriously doubt that alcohol could be smelled in blood, but if there's death, it could be possibly smelled in the last urinary discharge of the victim. To smell it in blood, they'd likely have to take the blood somewhere that's not contaminated by other more powerful smells, but if they're going to take the blood away, they'd have better means to check for alcohol than the smell.

A few quick Googles turned up NOTHING about blood smelling of alcohol, so I'd say no.

waylander · Jan 31, 2008

Alcohol - pure ethanol - doesn't smell strongly. When people say they can smell alcohol on breath or elsewhere, they are generally smelling the other scent characteristics of what was consumed - whisky/beer/whatever.

Tsu Dho Nimh · Jan 31, 2008

Does anyone know if alcohol can actually be smelled in blood at a wreck scene where there is no open liquor? I've heard it's possible.

Yes, it's possible, especially if it's one of the smelly varieties, like beer or whisky or tequila. Vodka would be much harder. Would have to be freshly bled out, because it vaporizes fast. Blood also has a distinct smell most people percieve as metallic, if it's in large quantities.

You would also smell it on the breath of the victims, if anyone is breathing.

If so, what level of drinking would it take and what would a person blow on a breathalyser to have blood with enough alcohol to smell?

When I was a med tech, we did legal blood alcohols: one of the lab games was toguess, based on smell, what the alcohol level would be. Down to about .05 (just below the current .08 limit) it's possible.

Horseshoes · Jan 31, 2008

I've been to waaay too many wreck scenes and smelled beaucoup alcohol ("the scent of alcoholic beverages" is the phrase) at them but I think if no blood had been spilled, I'd have smelled the booze.

In DUI detection school, we had volunteers come in and drink various amounts while we did field tests on them. All day. Some of the vols got shnockered through the hours, some literally never consumed half a drink. While certain field tests are very good to determine an impaired person--even one pretending to be drunk when he's only swilled booze/gargled and spat--it remains a possibility that one can smell a bit of alcohol and not know--based only on the scent--if the person was knee-walking, snot-slinging drunk v. sober. That said, sometimes the odor was so pervasive at scenes, I was sure the person had been k-w,s-s drunk.

jclarkdawe · Jan 31, 2008

Keyboard Hound said:
Does anyone know if alcohol can actually be smelled in blood at a wreck scene where there is no open liquor? I've heard it's possible. As a former Captain/EMT I've been to a lot of wreck scenes. And know a lot of other firefighters and EMTs and personally I've never heard of this. Is it possible? I guess.

Normally at wrecks, you have a multitude of smells. Gas, oil, batteries, and other fluids leak, as usually one or more system gets ripped open, even more so in a roll over. There's the normal smell of the car. Any fluids in the car will probably leak. And the ambulance will be running, with diesel fumes.

Most alcoholics have one for the road, and then another for on the road, so usually there is spilled alcohol. And then there's the driver's breath.

Remember that an EMTs interest in whether someone has been drinking is primarily to know what sort of baseline they have and what drugs might not be a good idea. Secondary is the fact that frequently drunks tend to be combative.

There are a bunch of different signs that we use, including their breath, demeanor, eyes, movement, speech, beer cans in car, and some others. With a bit of practice, it's easy and subconscious (ask any cop). Smelling alcohol in the blood would be one of the last things I'd think of. And the amount of blood that would be involved has a heavy odor of it's own.

And as stated, alcohol doesn't have much of an odor. That was one of the reasons for the popularity of the martini. No odor. Personally I've found the beer drinkers stink the worst, though the vomit from wine drinkers is stronger.

If so, what level of drinking would it take and what would a person blow on a breathalyser to have blood with enough alcohol to smell?

Also, in naming an EMS leader, how many words would be capitalized? Ex. Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Is that correct? In referring to other members of EMS, would the words emergency services staff be capitalized? I'm thinking not.

I'm not sure what your talking about here. I was an Emergency Medical Technician or EMT. An upper level EMT would include their level. A paramedic would probably just be listed as that. Titling depends on use.

At a scene, I'd approach the patient and say, "Hi, my name is Jim. Can I help you?" I didn't bother to explain who I was. I figured the red lights did that for me. Others would say their name, and then add, "I'm an EMT" or "I'm a paramedic" and then add on "Can I help you?"

Thanks for any replies.

Hope this helps,

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

Keyboard Hound · Jan 31, 2008

You guys are amazing in your willingness to help. Thanks so much for your replies.

Keyboard Hound · Jan 31, 2008

jclarkdawe said:
Also, in naming an EMS leader, how many words would be capitalized? Ex. Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Is that correct? In referring to other members of EMS, would the words emergency services staff be capitalized? I'm thinking not.

I'm not sure what your talking about here. I was an Emergency Medical Technician or EMT. An upper level EMT would include their level. A paramedic would probably just be listed as that. Titling depends on use.

Hope this helps,

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

You've helped a lot and I thank you.

I'm needing the titling information for an article.

Concerning the above question, which I did not make clear, I'm trying to figure out the correct way to punctuate and capitalize the name and title of the EMS director. As in:

According to John Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director, the wreck occurred on a Sunday afternoon.

Is the way I've done the sample sentence right? Or would director be in lower case?

I've misplaced my grammar book, or I'd look it up.

Keyboard Hound · Feb 1, 2008

mollyluna said:
I would ask how a writer misplaces his grammar book, but I don't want to know...

Oh, if only you could see!! Books piled everywhere. Three writing locations. I love the little dancing bear.

Shwebb · Feb 1, 2008

I'd capitalize it, because it's a title. Looks good, to me.

I used to be an EMT and my husband is a career medic. He says he's never smelled alcohol in blood, but yeah--I've also taken care of drunks who've bled profusely, and all I really smelled was the blood. Sorry to get graphic, but if you've ever been at a butcher's, that's what it smelled like, to me.

Mr. Shwebb says he can smell the alcohol on the breath and the sweat, and if the guy has had a lacerated belly--the stomach. I don't know what level one's alcohol level would need to be to smell it on them.

GeorgeK · Feb 2, 2008

Yes, drunk bleeding trauma patients have a characteristic different smell than non drunk trauma patients. Usually their blood alcohol levels were around 1-1.5 (0.8 being the upper legal limit), but the highest I ever saw was a 6.4 in a talkie. When I asked him how much he drank he just said, "I drink a bit." I'm sure the smell is a lot easier to detect in the trauma bay than at the scene of the wreck since it was a closed clean room. Some of the team could tell the difference and some could only smell the blood. It depends on the nose and the experience.

shakeysix · Feb 2, 2008

creepy. my high school students have a cadaver day. they visit a morgue and observe the corpses. yeah--i know. i did debate myself, but it is a big day for the science loonies. anyway they told me that a doctor let them smell the corpse of a recently deceased alcoholic because he smelled like booze, even his blood. i am sure the doctor meant it as a cautionary tale but the kids found it gloriously macabre. anyway, this is on the word of a dozen 17 year olds. not mine--s6

icerose · Feb 2, 2008

You also have to take into consideration that people smell different than other people. As in their receptors work differently.

I can smell poinsettias but I have never met another person who can. Smokers, for example, lose a lot of their scent range.

My husband broke his nose like 5 times when he was a kickboxer, he doesn't smell most of anything. But get him around vomit or a dirty diaper and he's running to the bathroom throwing up, where as being a mother of 3 has practically killed those receptors in me.

So just because some people can or cannot smell something, doesn't mean it applies to the general population. I know people who can't smell blood.

Anyway, good luck!

Shwebb · Feb 2, 2008

Heh. That's true, about sensitivity. I can't smell propane unless someone else notices it first and clues me into it--a potentially dangerous thing not to be able to smell.

On an aside, my husband has told me that when he eats asparagus, his urine takes on a peculiar odor--I've never noticed that, with me. When I did some research on it, there are two camps, surprisingly. One camp says that some people process the chemicals in asparagus differently than other people, the other camp says that some people can smell the chemical that shows up in the urine, and others can't. (Um, I'm not going to test on my own which this might be.)

Sorry for the temporary derailment--but given that this room is a good place to pick up strange info, I thought y'all might find it interesting.

BTW--if I were in that high school class, I'd have totally wanted to see a dead body, too. I was a biology geek with a morbid sense of curiosity.

Chickenscratch · Feb 2, 2008

Not sure what style the article needs to be in, but according to the Associated Press, you'd capitalize his title only if it precedes his name. The way you wrote it, you'd keep the department name upper case and lowercase his title of director.

Nancy Gray is president of the Junior League.
or
Junior League President Nancy Gray
are both correct.

GeorgeK · Feb 3, 2008

mollyluna said:
I read somewhere that sense of smell is linked to hearing. I have incredible hearing and an excellent sense of smell. My husband, who had hearing damage when he was younger, can't smell a thing. I've noticed a correlation between the two, but not how it works.
.

There certainly may be some syndrome that involves both that I've never heard of (head problems aren't my forte) but the 2 different senses are each served by their own cranial nerves. My guess is that for your husband it's a coincidence of 2 separate problems.

HeronW · Feb 4, 2008

In blood, the non-alcohol additives tend to break up first so that would be the flavorings--smell. Higher alcohol contents like brandy is absorbed through the GI tract quicker than lighter ones like beer/wine for a harder hit. Men generally can consume more than women, matching physiology, though again a long-time drinker who's thin can 'hold it' better than a big newbie with a high body mass index. Also depending on the time of the accident back to the last consumption of alcohol--15 min, 30, 3 hours, determines the amount in the stomach vs in the bloodstream.

Rabe · Feb 5, 2008

Keyboard Hound said:
Also, in naming an EMS leader, how many words would be capitalized? Ex. Smith, Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Is that correct? In referring to other members of EMS, would the words emergency services staff be capitalized? I'm thinking not.

Your example would be correct when you are referring to the person's title in specific. Such as Smith is the Chesterfield County Emergency Services Director. Because at this time it becomes a proper noun. Now, if you refer to it in general then only the name and Chesterfield County would be proper nouns and therefore capitalized. Such as "He was an emergency services director for Chesterfield County for years."

As opposed to:

"Emergency Services Director Smith will give the keynote address."

Nothing in my experience would ever get me to agree that a person can smell alcohol in blood.

Rabe...

Alcohol at a Wreck Scene

Keyboard Hound

Old kid. Tough skin!!

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

Plot Device

A woman said to write like a man.

ImagineAZ

waylander

Who's going for a beer?

Tsu Dho Nimh

Horseshoes

lisapreston.com

jclarkdawe

Feeling lucky, Query?

Keyboard Hound

Old kid. Tough skin!!

Keyboard Hound

Old kid. Tough skin!!

Keyboard Hound

Old kid. Tough skin!!

Shwebb

She's the creepy-looking dude

GeorgeK

ever seeking

shakeysix

blue eyed floozy

icerose

Lost in School Work

Shwebb

She's the creepy-looking dude

Chickenscratch

GeorgeK

ever seeking

HeronW

Down Under Fan

Rabe

the living dead