Just how important is 'that'?

shelboselby · Jan 30, 2008

Alright, this is really just a grammar question, but it was brought to my attention by my English teacher today in class and I've now realized if it's wrong, it's a problem becuase I do it ALL the time.

The word 'that'. According to my english teacher (who hails herself as some sort of grammar genius), I leave it out far too many times. For example, in my Scarlet Letter essay, I had the phrase "no matter the repentance she would make for her sin", and she replaced it with "no matter the repentance that she would make for her sin."

I know, I know, it's not all that big of a change, but she did it no less than seven times thoughout my two page essay, so I'm starting to wonder if I leave it out too often.

But to me, "that" was always a word that was redundant and should be omitted whenever possible. Or is it more the issue that leaving out that word leaves the writing sounding more...old fashioned, perhaps?

kristie911 · Jan 30, 2008

I ruthlessly delete "that" from my writing because I use it far too often both in writing and speaking.

IMO, your sentence was correct before. Her's isn't necessarily wrong but her addition of "that" is unnecessary.

MarkEsq · Jan 30, 2008

kristie911 said:
I ruthlessly delete "that" from my writing because I use it far too often both in writing and speaking.

IMO, your sentence was correct before. Her's isn't necessarily wrong but her addition of "that" is unnecessary.

I take the opposite view - I think the word "that" is an invisible word, one that helps clarify meaning without interrupting flow. I took a legal writing class with Brian Garner (who some here may have heard of) and while I, too, am skeptical of self-appointed writing gurus I think he is right on this (and many other) points.

otterman · Jan 30, 2008

I don't think it's necessary in the example you give. It clogs the sentence up, IMO.

Interesting you should bring up the "that" question. Robert J. Sawyer discusses the problem between confusing "that" and "which". It's here, if you're interested:
www.sfwriter.com/ow10.htm

Shadow_Ferret · Jan 30, 2008

I'm a notorious "thater" and its one of the first things I do a search for.

IceCreamEmpress · Jan 30, 2008

You clearly leave it out in cases where she would put it in.

In the sentence you cite, though, you were perfectly correct.

Soccer Mom · Jan 30, 2008

Your sentence was correct and there is a preference for fewer "thats" in fiction. But when you're writing for a class, use "thats" and get a good grade. When writing for yourself or publication, trust your own instincts.

maestrowork · Jan 30, 2008

Change all "that"s to "it"s.

Oh, you think I'm joking...

Willowmound · Jan 30, 2008

Mindcurling. I like it.

Nari · Jan 30, 2008

Quote MarkEsq: I think the word "that" is an invisible word, one that helps clarify meaning without interrupting flow.

I like that answer.

For me, if the sentence structure reads just as well without "that", I omit it. Sometimes, I think I don't need to use it and Word advises otherwise.

Willowmound · Jan 30, 2008

Don't ever listen to Word.

Nari · Jan 30, 2008

^^LOLLOL^^

Touche

caromora · Jan 30, 2008

The writing you do for school and technical writing are usually different than that's accepted in fiction, at least in my experience. For fiction, if the sentence can work without "that," take the word out. But make sure the sentence really IS clear without it. A lot of times people go overboard and remove too many.

Judg · Jan 30, 2008

If the sentence is clear, comprehensible and reads well without it, leave it out. If it's confusing or just not as pleasing rhythmically, put it in. Often, it's a judgment call, and probably not worth the amount of fuss it gets. (There. I left it out of that last clause because I didn't like the rhythm of it with it in and clarity did not demand it.)

DeadlyAccurate · Jan 30, 2008

Judg said:
If the sentence is clear, comprehensible and reads well without it, leave it out. If it's confusing or just not as pleasing rhythmically, put it in. Often, it's a judgment call, and probably not worth the amount of fuss it gets. (There. I left it out of that last clause because I didn't like the rhythm of it with it in and clarity did not demand it.)

Perfectly said.

Just how important is 'that'?

shelboselby

One Girl Mediocrity Machine

kristie911

Happy to be here

MarkEsq

Clever title pending.

otterman

Word Voyeur

Shadow_Ferret

Court Jester

IceCreamEmpress

Hapless Virago

Soccer Mom

Crypto-fascist

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Willowmound

Lightly salted

Nari

Spinner and Weaver

Willowmound

Lightly salted

Nari

Spinner and Weaver

caromora

Still alive. Kind of.

Judg

DISENCHANTED coming soon

DeadlyAccurate

Absolutely Fazed