Switching to a new shot within a scene

Stargazer · Jan 13, 2008

I've written a few film scripts, one of which I used in one of my film studies assignments recently and I'm a bit fed up because I while I still have a good grade, it could have been slightly better still.

What got me was that when I was changing camera shot mid scene, I apparently did it wrong. I was wondering if this was something silly that I just assumed I could do or if maybe by some slim chance there was another soul out here somewhere that did the same or could offer a workaround.

Here's an example of what I had done:

INT. OFFICE - DAY

MID-SHOT OF ROB

ROB is at his desk typing a message into the Absolute Write Forums

ROB (V.O)
At this stage I was wondering
what I should be writing as
an example of some dialogue.

DISSOLVE TO:

LONG-SHOT OF ROB

ROB (V.O)
Realising that I was just typing
nonsense, I chose to quit and
carry on trying to ask my
question.

I've been told that CUT TO's and DISSOLVE TO's should only be used as a transition to a new scene and not as a transition to a new camera angle. The fact that I've added a camera angle should be enough and apparently doesn't warrant the transition line.

So how would I request the transition to be a dissolve or maybe a wipe instead of a cut. The dissolve can be used very nicely within a scene and I'm not sure I want to leave it solely to the director to make that choice.

Any input you guys may have would be warmly appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob.

PS. Apologies for the lousy script example... Just did it for forum purposes and getting something in there quickly. I don't actually write about myself posting messages on forums.

dpaterso · Jan 13, 2008

Gotta be honest, I haven't a clue. You might as well stop reading here.

As you probably know (?), spec screenwriters are advised to avoid using camera directions as much as possible and concentrate on telling the story. Probably as a result of trying to adhere to this approach, I just don't think in these technical shooting terms when I'm writing. I suspect I might have written your sample as something like:

INT. OFFICE - DAY

ROB and other OFFICE DRONES beaver away at their desks.

Rob frowns in concentration as he types on his computer keyboard.

COMPUTER SCREEN - Rob creates a new message titled "Switching to a new shot within a scene"

ROB (V.O)
At this stage I was wondering
what I should be writing as
an example of some dialogue.

Rob pauses... then types some more.

ROB (V.O)
Realising that I was just typing
nonsense, I chose to quit and
carry on trying to ask my
question.

...The first line suggests a wide shot of the office environment... then we're close enough to see the character's expression, which suggests another shot. The screen shot plus the pause give natural breaks in Rob's dialogue, as well as opportunity to resume on Rob from another angle. It's directing by suggestion, rather than using specific camera directions.

The above is personal opinion, not gospel. If it doesn't fit your style or your assignment goals, ignore me completely, no worries.

-Derek

NikeeGoddess · Jan 13, 2008

generally, there is no need for any camera directions/angles/POV/etc... because as screenwriters we leave that up to the director to make those decisions.

however, if you're doing this for a class that will actually make a small production then... from the example you've given:

- dissolve to? this means to slightly fade out and fade in. why would you even want that here? or a wipe? when you read a script these things happen onscreen but they're not written on the page. watch a movie and read the script at the same time and you'll get it.
- it's not necessary to advance the story to make a change in camera angles while he's sitting at the desk. now... if Rob was typing at the desk and then a bee was buzzing around the room and flew into his open fly... well, you can see the need to take the camera under the table.

Stargazer · Jan 13, 2008

The assignment is already handed in and being graded. So nothing is going to change that now. This is for me moving forward with my writing.

The reason I put the dissolve in to a longer shot in the original was to help convey the feeling of loneliness being felt by a particular character. They are standing by a car we see them looking around nervously while they deliver a voiceover.

The scene dissolved into a longer shot with the voiceover still going, and again, and again.

So I had four shots in one scene getting further and further away before the scene dissolves into a shot of someone else and a similar thing happens. I just wanted a way to show the audience that these people, after everything they have been through in the film are all feeling kind of lost, alone and like everybody is drifting away from them. Something that a simple pull-out wouldn't achieve.

Maybe I'll have to go to director school and demand to direct all my own projects should anything I do ever generate any interest.

FinbarReilly · Jan 13, 2008

It's assumed that you will be doing a lot of moving from long to medium shots, so don't put them in past the establishing shot; leave them to the director. To a degree, the same applies to POV and close shots; only include them if you feel that they are absolutely necessary (to show that the character sees something that the other characters don't, for example).

Generally, the only shots you should include are insert shots, like when someone is reading, and you want to include the letter, or when you are trying to make a point. Even then, you shouldn't include a lot of them; you need to allow the director to make as many of those decisions as possible.

FR

NikeeGoddess · Jan 13, 2008

Maybe I'll have to go to director school and demand to direct all my own projects should anything I do ever generate any interest.

only if you really want to be a director/filmmaker

but for pure writing, i suggest you read, read, and read more scripts with lonely characters and see how they pull it off on paper rather than trying to copy what you see on screen with camera directions.

it is true in my experience with scripts that voice over is a great tool for the extremely lonely character (taxi driver, about schmidt are 2 great examples). the reason they use voice over is because these characters have no "window" character* or person to talk to so they must convey their feelings to the audience via VO.

one hour photo has another great lonely character you should study. i remember a scene where he was zombied out in front of the tv while "not" watching a sitcom.

*lonely character who create their own window character - castaway (a soccer ball) and i am legend (a dog & mannequins).

the shawshank redemption used voice-over but notice it was morgan freeman's character not tim robbins' - red was lonely and made his life more interesting and less lonely by talking about andy.

ok, i'm done babbling

as you were

FinbarReilly · Jan 13, 2008

Best thing about the Ultimate Blade Runner: Blade Runner has some of the best voice-overs, especially as they show a lot about Deckard's thinking...

FR

ricetalks · Jan 13, 2008

Stargazer said:
INT. OFFICE - DAY

MID-SHOT OF ROB

ROB is at his desk typing a message into the Absolute Write Forums

ROB (V.O)
At this stage I was wondering
what I should be writing as
an example of some dialogue.

DISSOLVE TO:

LONG-SHOT OF ROB

ROB (V.O)

Realising that I was just typing

nonsense, I chose to quit and

carry on trying to ask my

question.

Here is how I would handle this.

INT. OFFICE - DAY

A SERIES OF DISSOLVES OF--

ROB as he sits at his desk typing a message into The Absolute Write Form.

ROB (v.o.)
dialogue, etc., etc., ect.

Voice over comes from the character that is telling the story. It is their story told from their perspective and that is why they are using voice over.

nmstevens · Jan 13, 2008

Stargazer said:
I've written a few film scripts, one of which I used in one of my film studies assignments recently and I'm a bit fed up because I while I still have a good grade, it could have been slightly better still.

What got me was that when I was changing camera shot mid scene, I apparently did it wrong. I was wondering if this was something silly that I just assumed I could do or if maybe by some slim chance there was another soul out here somewhere that did the same or could offer a workaround.

Here's an example of what I had done:

INT. OFFICE - DAY

MID-SHOT OF ROB

ROB is at his desk typing a message into the Absolute Write Forums

ROB (V.O)
At this stage I was wondering
what I should be writing as
an example of some dialogue.

DISSOLVE TO:

LONG-SHOT OF ROB

ROB (V.O)

Realising that I was just typing

nonsense, I chose to quit and

carry on trying to ask my

question.

I've been told that CUT TO's and DISSOLVE TO's should only be used as a transition to a new scene and not as a transition to a new camera angle. The fact that I've added a camera angle should be enough and apparently doesn't warrant the transition line.

So how would I request the transition to be a dissolve or maybe a wipe instead of a cut. The dissolve can be used very nicely within a scene and I'm not sure I want to leave it solely to the director to make that choice.

Any input you guys may have would be warmly appreciated.

Cheers,

Rob.

PS. Apologies for the lousy script example... Just did it for forum purposes and getting something in there quickly. I don't actually write about myself posting messages on forums.

INT. OFFICE - DAY

ROB is at his desk typing a message into the Absolute Write Forums

ROB (V.O)
Thank heavens I realized in time that
one ought never to include things like
"MID-SHOT" and "LONG SHOT"
and similar descriptions that add
nothing in particular to my
screenplays.

ROB
Not only that, Rob, the use of transitions
such as DISSOLVE to: and CUT to:
are also completely passe.

ROB (V.O)
But should I never refer to or use camera
descriptions at all? I mean, well -- gee!

ROB
Well, of course you can, Rob. But only in
rare cases, for specific story reasons, and
never "generically" -- in uses such as
ANOTHER ANGLE or MEDIUM SHOT. While
you might find the occasional older screenplay
that uses these terms, they are definitely
not used these days.

ROB (V.O)
Well, thanks Rob. And what's the lowdown
on Voice Overs?

ROB
Sorry, that's another thread.

NMS

LIVIN · Jan 13, 2008

Ah, good 'ol NMS...

That reminded me of this:

http://www.oscars.org/nicholl/format_a.txt

Switching to a new shot within a scene

Stargazer

Spiralling into the abyss

dpaterso

Also in our Discord and IRC chat channels

NikeeGoddess

Stargazer

Spiralling into the abyss

FinbarReilly

NikeeGoddess

FinbarReilly

ricetalks

nmstevens

What happened?

LIVIN