That!

Thekherham · Jan 12, 2008

In my draft, I clicked on Edit, then Find, entered the word 'that' in the search field, and found a lot of 'that's... for example '...the dinner that I ate'... I stopped counting when I got to 500 and that was after about 200 pages.

Is 'that' a bad word to have in a story? I know it has its uses ("Did you see that?" Bill asked.), but I'm thinking I have way too many of them.

Also, while I'm speaking of that... I'm confused about the use of 'that' and 'which'. If somebody could clarify the difference between the two words and how to use each, it would be greatly appreciated.

girlyswot · Jan 12, 2008

A lot of times you'll find the 'that' is completely redundant. Try seeing if you can just delete some of them In other cases you might be better of rewording your sentence to get a more elegant structure. But sometimes they have to stay!

That and which. Hmm. One of them is used for a subordinate clause and the other isn't. I think. Generally I just choose the one that sounds right to me!

Sage · Jan 12, 2008

That vs. Which

When you use "which" the information after it gives you extra information about the subject, but isn't necessary for understanding which subject it is.

I read Pride and Prejudice, which is my favorite Jane Austen book.

You use "that" to clarify the subject.

I picked up the book that was sitting on the table.

In this case, the info after the "that" tells us which book it is. In the first, it's just extra info.

Now, if you already knew information about the book (like, say, it's a whole paragraph about the book, and trying to find it), there'd be a case for "which" too.

I picked up the (aforementioned) book, which was sitting on the table.

Oberon · Jan 14, 2008

I picked up the book that was sitting on the table. I picked up the book, which was sitting on the table. I agree, in the second example you're talking about the aforementioned book. the first seems to indicate it is a choice between the book on the table, not some other book. Just going by the way it sounds, I am not a grammarian. Note that the which requires the comma, the that does not.

Sandi LeFaucheur · Jan 14, 2008

Here is what Gregg's Reference has to say:

Which is always used to introduce non-essential clauses, and that is ordinarily used to introduce essential clauses.

Laura's report on employee benefits, which I sent you last week, should be of some help. (which introduces a non-essential clause)

The report that I sent you last week should be of some help. (That introduces an essential clause.)

NOTE: Many writers now use either which or that to introduce an essential clause. Indeed, which is to be preferred to that (1) when there are two or more parallel essential clauses in the same sentence (2) when that has already been used in the sentence and (3) when the essential clause is introduced by an expression such as this...which, that...which, these...which, or those..which.

(The Gregg Refence Manual, Fifth Canadian Edition, 1999)

Chase · Jan 15, 2008

I think you already see the detrimintal echo effect of too many uses of "that" and will make cuts.

Advice already given is terrific, but we might be careful about what sounds right. Just one of many examples is so many students corrected to say "Susan and I" instead of "me and Susan" that they mistakenly transfer the phrase from the subjective case to the objective case where "May paul go with Susan and I" sound right.

The only suggestion I might add to your paring project is changing to "who" or "whom" where "that" refers to people.

blacbird · Jan 15, 2008

I always have too many "that"s in my rough drafts. It's one of the first things I look for when editing. I suspect it's a common problem for a lot of writers, but that's why you edit.

caw

That!

Thekherham

The Alien Writer

girlyswot

Sage

Our Lady of Parentheticals

Oberon

Sandi LeFaucheur

Chase

It Takes All of Us to End Racism

blacbird