Profanity

Status
Not open for further replies.

young_zee

Registered
Joined
Nov 7, 2007
Messages
42
Reaction score
3
My novel is around 80,000 words and 1% of it all is swearing, and the more rude words at that. I was wondering how acceptable this is, given that this book is not erotica!!

What would a middle/upper class literary agent/publisher make of it!
 

maddythemad

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
2,944
Reaction score
936
Unless it's a picture book, you're probably cool. :D
 

Moon Daughter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,864
Reaction score
263
Location
The Moon
800 curse words? I think the acceptability would be based on the genre of the book and if the curse words really do anything for the story.
 

James D. Macdonald

Your Genial Uncle
Absolute Sage
VPX
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Feb 11, 2005
Messages
25,582
Reaction score
3,787
Location
New Hampshire
Website
madhousemanor.wordpress.com
The profane words have to meet the same tests as all the rest of the words: Do they reveal character, support the theme, or advance the plot?

If yes, keep them.

If no, cut them.
 

kuwisdelu

Revolutionize the World
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
38,197
Reaction score
4,544
Location
The End of the World
It doesn't matter if your language is appropriate for all ages, appropriate for middle-upper class, or appropriate for baboons. It only matters if it's appropriate to your story. If it is--keep em. If not--toss em. Just like Uncle Jim says.
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
47,985
Reaction score
13,247
So? Does any writer want readers who are so precious anyway?

Like I said before; it didn't do James Kelman any harm.
 

L M Ashton

crazy spec fic writer
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Messages
5,027
Reaction score
518
Location
I'm not even sure I know anymore...
Website
lmashton.com
So? Does any writer want readers who are so precious anyway?

Precious? Because some people don't like profanity? It's a preference, and it's not necessary to condemn readers just because they don't like reading profanity. Not everyone likes reading potty humour or sex scenes either. Or science fiction or historical fiction or westerns. So what?
 
Joined
Aug 7, 2005
Messages
47,985
Reaction score
13,247
You could lose readers because of your genre, your voice, your characters, the author's gender/politics/age...who cares? You can't write a book worrying about not alienating people for any reason, let alone profanity, or you'd never get the book written.

You're never going to entertain everyone with the same book, so it's a waste of energy trying. It's better to write a book you would enjoy reading and to be true to the story, not pandering to the preferences of a group of people you don't even know.

I know the swearing in my books would offend people...but I also know there are other people who won't be offended, and so will read what I produce. And it's those people I care about, not the ones who choose not to read me. Life's too short to worry about people who don't like what you write. I'd rather concern myself with those who do.
 

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,939
Reaction score
263
Website
www.johnzakour.com
As long as you're not using profanity for the sake of using profanity and you're not writing kids or YA you should be fine.

Like stated above, it's not the words that matter but how you use them. The words need to match the characters.

Think of Barney talking like Tony Montana (Al Pacino's character in Scar Face), it just wouldn't work out. Just like Tony Montana talking like Barney wouldn't work out.
 
Last edited:

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,939
Reaction score
263
Website
www.johnzakour.com
Sorry, I didn't mean for the YA to be a sweeping generality. So I stand corrected. Though I would still venture a guess that the majority isn't 1% profanity. Anybody know any young readers that are using profanity?

The point still stands that the words have to match the characters.
 

Esopha

bam pow zap.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
12,665
Reaction score
2,629
Location
Magic America
Sorry, I didn't mean for the YA to be a sweeping generality. So I stand corrected. Though I would still venture a guess that the majority isn't 1% profanity. Anybody know any young readers that are using profanity?

The point still stands that the words have to match the characters.

I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if you mean, "Does anybody know young people who swear", my answer would be, "Yes. Everybody I know over the age of ten."

How often they use it is a different story.

And words absolutely have to match the characters.
 

Moon Daughter

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Messages
1,864
Reaction score
263
Location
The Moon
I write YA and I still use profanity. Plenty of YA books do.

I second this. But as someone mentioned before, YA books that I've read anyways, don't have 800 curse words. There's nothing wrong with having one or a thousand of them...just as long as it works for the story and not for the sake of just having them. If every page had a curse word, personally, I'd be thrown off by it.
 

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,939
Reaction score
263
Website
www.johnzakour.com
I'm not sure if I understand your question, but if you mean, "Does anybody know young people who swear", my answer would be, "Yes. Everybody I know over the age of ten."

Sorry that was BADLY worded on my part. By young readers I meant stories for first time readers! That was meant to be a joke but I left off the ;-) and like I said, worded it very badly. (I should never type day after New Year's eve...)
 
Last edited:

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
1,939
Reaction score
263
Website
www.johnzakour.com
I second this. But as someone mentioned before, YA books that I've read anyways, don't have 800 curse words. There's nothing wrong with having one or a thousand of them...just as long as it works for the story and not for the sake of just having them. If every page had a curse word, personally, I'd be thrown off by it.

Yes, a YA with 800 curse words would be a really tough sell. Not saying it couldn't be done. But it would take a writer with far more talent than I have.

I have one, "Oh Shit..." coming in one of my YA's due out in 09, and the editor really questioned if I needed it. So a lot depends on your "voice" too.
 

Esopha

bam pow zap.
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Jan 31, 2007
Messages
12,665
Reaction score
2,629
Location
Magic America
Sorry that was BADLY worded on my part. By young readers I meant stories for first time readers! That was meant to be a joke but I left off the ;-) and like I said, worded it very badly. (I should never type day after New Year's eve...)

Oooooh. It was a joke! Hahaha. :D

It's cool. New Year's day at my place means old guacamole and de-bubblifying champagne from my parent's once-a-year obligatory drink. Also, a mouth that tastes like squirrel.
 

NeuroFizz

The grad students did it
Kind Benefactor
Super Member
Registered
Joined
Apr 18, 2005
Messages
9,493
Reaction score
4,283
Location
Coastal North Carolina
I suspect this statement may be controversial, or at least muddied, but it seems to me (based on everything from novels to prime-time television) that cursing and profanity are two separate and diverging concepts.
 
Last edited:

Danger Jane

Super Member
Registered
Joined
Aug 11, 2005
Messages
7,921
Reaction score
5,006
Location
Rome
Fat Kid Rules the World definitely has 800 curse words.

Okay, maybe not 800, but a lot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.