Absolutely terrified :)

Susan Lanigan · Dec 30, 2007

Hi,

I am attempting to move over from short story writing to ... em... longer story writing (still can't say the N word). I'm realising that to have any serious clout with a publisher I need to have a book-length piece and one of my short stories conveniently ends with a man walking out of his own post-wedding celebrations in search of the a lost love. He's got a random young boy with him.

I want to know where he goes. I don't think his story is finished. And if I don't go for it now, I will never have the guts to go for it.

The main few characters are clear enough in my mind. What is held back and later revealed is also a known quantity. My problem is that I've got no &*(^ing plot to speak of though an idea of where it might go. I've got an outline for chapter 2 (chapter 1 is done). I have no idea whether or not this will work. I have no idea whether I can compel people to give a toss about it.

I've outlined things precisely and given up after page 3 so that might not be the solution. Also I've happily and competently written stories of 23,000 word-length, a length that is utterly unpublishable. If I can do 20,000 - why do I want to run and hide at the thought of 60,000?

I do care about these people and I care about showing how shitty and hypocritical others can be, and I do have a back story I can flashback to. All I need is the guts to believe I can do it and the ability to do it and stick to it. I know I can write. I just don't know if I can write... long things.

Thanks for listening and sorry if this has been covered umph million times before.

Toothpaste · Dec 30, 2007

You'll be just fine! And the reason I say this is because you are very self aware of who you are as a writer.

However, the one thing I'll say is to genuinely try not to worry. Easier said than done I know. But remember. There is no timeline. There is no right way of doing things. There is no one judging you but yourself. So let it go. Just sit down and write. And give yourself permission to write crap. It is very rare, as I am sure you know, that anyone publishes their first book. But this is a great thing. This means the pressure is off. So get your hands dirty. Jump into the deep end. Mix your metaphors.

You'll be fine.

Susan Lanigan · Dec 30, 2007

Thanks Toothpaste. I've already written my first book. As is often the way, agent liked the first three chapters, hated the rest.

I want to make sure that doesn't happen this time!

geardrops · Dec 30, 2007

You've written a 20K word piece. Just do that two more times and you have a novel.

Like Toothpaste said, you'll be fine. Nothin' to do but to do it.

David I · Dec 30, 2007

Man, I'm the other way around. I can't write a short story to save my life.

Some people find it easier to tackle large projects like novels if they think in terms of "acts"--usually I, II, and III, though I know some folks who like the Shakespearean model of five acts. Try it on for size and see if it helps.

Zoombie · Dec 30, 2007

The trick is to write a really really really long short story.

Susan Lanigan · Dec 30, 2007

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. The acts thing is striking a chord - I do tend to see "scenes" in my head rather than a narrative.

TrickyFiction · Dec 30, 2007

I'm with David I. I have written short stories, but they're more difficult for me. Novels are fun, maybe because I naturally obsess. I know! Learn to have a one-track mind! Not so simple, I know.

OK, my real advice. The best short pieces I've ever written, I wrote with the idea that I was practicing something. It takes the pressure off. Oh, I'm just practicing characterization with this piece. Oh, I'm just practicing my world-building. Care, but don't worry. It's fun. Novel writing takes practice, like everything else.

I think that's why kids learn so quickly. They believe it's just for fun. They aren't afraid to fall and get up again, and fall and get up again. No pressure. Let your novel be your shower-singing for now, just for composition time. After that, you can worry about turning it into a real symphony.

Smiling Ted · Dec 30, 2007

Just for fun

TrickyFiction said:
I think that's why kids learn so quickly. They believe it's just for fun. They aren't afraid to fall and get up again, and fall and get up again. No pressure. Let your novel be your shower-singing for now, just for composition time. After that, you can worry about turning it into a real symphony.

That's the word - fun.

You might try brainstorming first, which is always fun. Just sit down with a pen and a pad of paper (no computers for this trick). Write down anything that comes to mind about your story, no matter how trivial, stupid, or off the wall. Any time you slow down, remind yourself that this is all just for fun, that you'll get rid of virtually all of these notes, that it's just practice.

See how many pages you can fill before you genuinely run out of things to write down...including the stupid, loopy stuff. (It's sort of like figuring out when to take the popcorn out of the microwave...if ten minutes go by and nothing comes, you might be finished.)

This exercise helps in two ways (at least, it's always done so for me):
1. You might actually find something useful in what you've written down.
2. Even if you don't, the sheer act of doing it helps put you in a productive frame of mind.

There's also a variation of this called "clustering," where you write down an idea, circle it, and then draw a line to any new ideas that were sparked by the old idea.

Sure, it sounds a little nursery school, but I've found it to be helpful.

Garpy · Dec 31, 2007

Viewing a book in acts is my modus operandi as well, but in my case 4 acts - as that's how I used to structure screenplays.

Act1 (20-25k words)
Set up your characters, the setting, and end this section with a significant event that gets your characters on the move.

Act2 (20-25k)
Characters continue in motion. You can add some depth to your chars if you like. Set up a challange to be overcome by the protag.

Act3 (20-25k)
Protag fails challenge, all looks doomy and gloomy
set up final, far greater challenge that protag looks doomed to fail.

Act 4 (20-25k)
Play out final challenge concluding with protag either rising above it and succeeding (or failing)

Now that's a really barebones schematic for a 4 act tale, and of course not every tale fits comfortably into that straightjacket - but I do find it helpful to split up a novel in such a away, breaking into 4 manageable chunks, and each chunk can be considered a short story.

HeronW · Dec 31, 2007

Of course we care, because you care, because NO story ends at the end, or even begins at the beginning.

The man has parents, friends, co-workers, roomates from college, the boy has a family he left, a favorite toy, a dream to be the next baseball Hall of Famer.

There's always something that happened before the incident you write, and there's people involved who want to speak, or react who will get the chance in a novel.

There's random events that will propel the character: being mugged, getting hit by a car, slipping on ice, getting the flu, finding his father's old railroad watch.

Don't worry about 20K or 40K 'short' stories--every tale needs it's own space. You could write it 7 different ways and still have 7 different lenghts perfectly good for that particular plot/character tranformation.

Many 'zines will do serials so a 20K can be cut to 2-3 parts.

Just write, trust yourself and your Muse to let the tale unfold. It already exists, just be open to let it come to you, and it will. If you care, so will the reader.

a_sharp · Dec 31, 2007

Garpy said:
Act1 (20-25k words)
Set up your characters, the setting, and end this section with a significant event that gets your characters on the move.

Act2 (20-25k)
Characters continue in motion. You can add some depth to your chars if you like. Set up a challange to be overcome by the protag.

Act3 (20-25k)
Protag fails challenge, all looks doomy and gloomy
set up final, far greater challenge that protag looks doomed to fail.

Act 4 (20-25k)
Play out final challenge concluding with protag either rising above it and succeeding (or failing)

Thanks, Garpy, that four-act description is one I can really use. For my type of writing, four is better than the usual three, especially the placement of the protag's challenges.

David I · Dec 31, 2007

Garpy said:
Viewing a book in acts is my modus operandi as well, but in my case 4 acts - as that's how I used to structure screenplays.

Interesting. Clearly it works for you, too.

I was first advised to work with five acts by a screenwriter when I was bitching about the endless desert that constitutes the "middle" of a book. He advised dividing the middle up into three acts of its own--so the structure he was recommending was really First + Middle Three + Last.

To tell the truth, I don't work with the concept of "acts" at all, except when trying to explain things post-hoc. But the suggestion that the middle has a shape and structure to it, with its own turning points, was immensely useful to me, just because it got me thinking about the center of the book as something other than a plateau connecting opening and climax...

Four acts. I'll go think about that.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 2, 2008

Thanks all. 6,000 words altogether and 3,000 or so into Chapter 2. The story is getting moving but I know that really things are just beginning.

Garpy I like your outline very much.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 4, 2008

8,000 now, beginning of Chapter 4. Various stops along the way to discipline some minor characters who were bickering on the motorway about change for the toll bridge when I wanted them to stick to the story, dammit. It's still the wedding scene and the aftermath. I've got to move it on.

The problem is, any man who goes off with a boy, never mind the reason, is a villain pure and simple and very hard to redeem. And there's a whole pile of characters jostling for development. I feel like I'm on a horse and barely able to hold the reins. Why did he have to take the damn boy with him? (NB "Because otherwise there would be no story" might be true, but not what I want to hear.

Don't mind me, just ranting. Thanks for letting me.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 4, 2008

PS. I'm reading a book about character development by Orson Scott Card. It's bloody good.

Nateskate · Jan 4, 2008

Susan Lanigan said:
I want to know where he goes. I don't think his story is finished. And if I don't go for it now, I will never have the guts to go for it.

Hi Susan. As a rule, I find that I always start with a basic story idea with limited characters and plot lines. A story expands greatly every time you add an interesting character to the mix.

Give the kid a past with someone who is looking for him. Maybe he's run away from something. Maybe he's looking for someone. Could be the police think he did something- which could remain a mystery- did he or didn't he?

So if he has a crack addicted mother who dropped him on the doorstep, she became clean and now wants to find him- does he want to be found?

As a rule of thought, "Bigger than life people plus larger than life problems = more interesting story"- aka Secret Life of Bees

Will Lavender · Jan 4, 2008

David I said:
Man, I'm the other way around. I can't write a short story to save my life.

I'm the same way. I don't...understand short fiction. Can't get on the same wavelength. Used to read it quite a bit, but I haven't read a short story in years and really have no desire to. It's a strange form, yet I think those who can do it well and consistently are truly artists.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 6, 2008

It's weird, Will. I think I've got into the mentality of stuffing everything into a 3,000 word space, which means that anything outside the immediate *moment* that strikes the character is not so important. I've got to create an Augenblick as opposed to a film, which the novel would require.

But now I'm finding I'm a lot more relaxed. I'm heading towards 10,000 words and getting a bit more command over things. I have a few subconscious tricks to urge me onwards when I get panicked.

Sorry if these updates are getting tedious but I put them half for my own satisfaction - it makes me feel good to see I'm making reasonable progress.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 15, 2008

16k now. The moment when you start to write the latest installment is the most frightening. The immediate preceding paragraph looks like the biggest load of crap since they shovelled up after highwaymen on 17th century roads.

I still don't have much faith. Watching a documentary of John Banville did not help. Looking back over my stuff I can safely say John Banville it ain't.

Still, gotta get that story moving. I'm trying to get my 1k a day in and have written past several crises of confidence already (advisedly or not is anyone's guess)

Susan Lanigan · Jan 25, 2008

22.5K. I think I've got to the end of Act I. However I seriously need an outline so I'm starting one now.

I keep thinking of Raymond Chandler and the man with a gun quote...I'm still holding the man in reserve

chartreuse · Jan 25, 2008

Susan Lanigan said:
PS. I'm reading a book about character development by Orson Scott Card. It's bloody good.

Is that Character and Viewpoint? I found it to be immensely helpful.

Susan Lanigan · Jan 25, 2008

I don't know the name: it was included in a trilogy called How to Write a Million. There was a book called "Plot" by Ansen Dibell which was ok, but not as good as the Card section.

Susan Lanigan · Feb 8, 2008

word count 30K and story was moving well but have just encountered a rather large plot hole

I won't have to rewrite that much but I will have to take other things into account when judging the characters' reactions and the planned future storyline will have to change. I will have to cut last night's work.

I presume this happens quite frequently!

Kallex · Feb 8, 2008

One method is to know the ending then write plenty of pages getting your protagonist there. It is amazing what will unfold during the journey especially if you make it hard for him or her to get to wherever or whatever is the end.

Absolutely terrified :)

Susan Lanigan

Toothpaste

THE RECKLESS RESCUE is out now!

Susan Lanigan

geardrops

Good thing I like my day job

David I

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Susan Lanigan

TrickyFiction

Who?

Smiling Ted

Ah-HA!

Garpy

keyboard monkey

HeronW

Down Under Fan

a_sharp

Somebody give me an A

David I

Susan Lanigan

Susan Lanigan

Susan Lanigan

Nateskate

Will Lavender

Everything is what it seems.

Susan Lanigan

Susan Lanigan

Susan Lanigan

chartreuse

Susan Lanigan

Susan Lanigan

Kallex

Snot bad atoll