My mc wants to hum or sing...

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

My mc is humming along here, or singing along-- would this be right? And do I underline this old 1874's song in ms or Do I have it in quotes and underline as she is singing/humming. Do I have to quote whole song---she is singing bits and pieces here? Thank you

Pulling the car off the curb she’d kissed earlier, she headed back toward the Noth Carolina campus, singing along to the strange tune playing over in her mind--G. Whyte-Melville’s 1800’s parlour song, Sleep, My Love, Sleep.

Sleep, my love, sleep, rest, my love, rest.

Dieth the moan of the wind in the tree…

Tossing and troubled and thinking of me,

Weary of watching and waiting for me.

Half sleeping, thinking and dreaming,

And dreaming of me… dreaming of me.

McCall absently wiped a small tear and repeated the chorus.

CaroGirl · Nov 21, 2007

I believe, and I might be wrong because I was once, that you don't need permission to quote a song title but you do need express permission from whomever holds the rights to quote song lyrics. But putting the song title in italics would probably be correct.

Someone wiser will undoubtedly be along in a minute.

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

CaroGirl said:
I believe, and I might be wrong because I was once, that you don't need permission to quote a song title but you do need express permission from whomever holds the rights to quote song lyrics. But putting the song title in italics would probably be correct.

Someone wiser will undoubtedly be along in a minute.

Thank you Caro.

And how does the paragraph feel to you?

CaroGirl · Nov 21, 2007

kimmi said:
Thank you Caro.

And how does the pragraph feel to you?

Evocative, kimmi. Sweet. I like it.

mikeland · Nov 21, 2007

I'm definitely not wiser than CaroGirl, but here's what I do.

I put all song lyrics in italics. That much underlined text looks too overwhelming to me on a page.

If she is singing it out loud, I would use quotation marks. If she's just humming and thinking about the lyrics in her head, then you don't need to quotes.

I am frequently wrong and freely admit that. I also have no legal training or basis for making the following statement. But it seems to me that a song that old may have entered the public domain and thus will not require permission. But I'd let the agents and publishers sort that out.

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

mikeland said:
I'm definitely not wiser than CaroGirl, but here's what I do.

I put all song lyrics in italics. That much underlined text looks too overwhelming to me on a page.

If she is singing it out loud, I would use quotation marks. If she's just humming and thinking about the lyrics in her head, then you don't need to quotes.

I am frequently wrong and freely admit that. I also have no legal training or basis for making the following statement. But it seems to me that a song that old may have entered the public domain and thus will not require permission. But I'd let the agents and publishers sort that out.

Thanks Mike, however no italics in ms formatting. Underline is the rule for such, I believe.

I thought? Hmmm

I'm wondering since she is singing to quote and underline as well as it is a song--A song written in 1800's?

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

kimmi said:
Thanks Mike, however no italics in ms formatting. Underline is the rule for such, I believe. I thought?

I'm wondering since she is singing to quote and underline as well as it is a song--A song written in 1800's?

Hmm, now I confused--the song is so old? Bumping gently.

FinbarReilly · Nov 21, 2007

As long as the song writer has been dead for 75+ years, you should be okay (copyrights in the US last for the lifetime of the writer plus 75 years, and it has one of the longer copyrights). On the other hand, if it's anonymous, then don't worry about it...

If it helps...
FR

J. R. Tomlin · Nov 21, 2007

Ah never mind, I see the copyright laws have already come up. The chances are this is public domain but it's something to check on.

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

Well, my question as well: Underline and quote, since she's singing?
And here also about Sleep, My Love, Sleep

George John Whyte-Melville (1821-1878) was an ex-Guardsman who had served with the Turks in the Crimea. He wrote novels on fox-hunting themes as well as the lyrics for a number of songs and even composed some music. He died after an accident in the hunting field.

This song was also published by J. L. Peters of New York as Dream My Love, Dream, new words being supplied by Clarance Austin.

wayndom · Nov 21, 2007

It's highly unlikely that a song written by a man who died in 1878 is still copyrighted. It's almost certain to be public domain.

This just in, from Wikipedia: "All works published in the United States before 1923 are in the public domain."

By the way, "Happy Birthday (to You)" was copyrighted in 1935 by a corporation. Corporate copyrights last longer than individual copyrights, and "Happy Birthday" will not enter the public domain until 2030.

Little Red Barn · Nov 21, 2007

Thank you way.

Again my question--Do I underline and add quotes as well as she is singing. Phleassee, anyone know. Thank you very much! :grin:

WildBill · Nov 21, 2007

wayndom said:
It's highly unlikely that a song written by a man who died in 1878 is still copyrighted. It's almost certain to be public domain.

This just in, from Wikipedia: "All works published in the United States before 1923 are in the public domain."

By the way, "Happy Birthday (to You)" was copyrighted in 1935 by a corporation. Corporate copyrights last longer than individual copyrights, and "Happy Birthday" will not enter the public domain until 2030.

Can we substitute 'Nasty' for 'Happy'? I know a few folks that would like the song better that way.

And BTW- statistics have shown that people who have the most birthdays live the longest.

Theognome

job · Nov 21, 2007

When you ask what to do in your manuscript,
the answer is pretty much --
'whatever you want to.'

All you have to do in your manuscript is make clear to the editor that this is lyrics that she's singing.

It should be in quotes. Yes.

Beyond that -- you can indent it, or underline it, or Italic it. Do what looks comfy to you.
Your copyeditor at your publishing house will put the block of lyrics into the form demanded by the publisher's house style. You don't have to try to guess what that will be.

Now ... may I add an unasked for comment ...?
We seldom have folks say 60 words in a row without some intervention. Possibly the same goes for lyrics ...?

My WIP has something along this lines ...

*************

A fine day. An excellent day. More than enough reason to raise his voice in song, entertaining Katherine Lane.

"These are the finest oysters that ever you did see.
I sells 'em three a penny, but I'll give 'em to you free . . ."

He tipped his head back and let rain fall on his face ... (and then come 50 or 60 words of intervening description. The lyrics are indented an extra half inch, but I don't know how to do that in a message box.)

"For I see that you're a lover of oysters."

Upstairs, on the second floor ... (and here's another 50 words of narration) ...

"Have you got a cozy room that's empty and nearby,
where me and my pretty little oyster girl can lie
while we bargain for her basket of oysters?"

The street bucked under him in a heavy groundswell.
****************

So you might take your block of lyrics and break it up with something.

maestrowork · Nov 21, 2007

I would use italics (underline in ms) and not the quotation marks. Set the lyrics off as an "extract" (I think that's the term) by indenting the whole block of lyrics.

Pulling the car off the curb she’d kissed earlier, she headed back toward the Noth Carolina campus, singing along to the strange tune playing over in her mind--G. Whyte-Melville’s 1800’s parlour song, Sleep, My Love, Sleep.

Sleep, my love, sleep, rest, my love, rest.
Dieth the moan of the wind in the tree…
Tossing and troubled and thinking of me,
Weary of watching and waiting for me.
Half sleeping, thinking and dreaming,
And dreaming of me… dreaming of me.

McCall absently wiped a small tear and repeated the chorus.

Little Red Barn · Nov 23, 2007

maestrowork said:
I would use italics (underline in ms) and not the quotation marks. Set the lyrics off as an "extract" (I think that's the term) by indenting the whole block of lyrics.

Pulling the car off the curb she’d kissed earlier, she headed back toward the Noth Carolina campus, singing along to the strange tune playing over in her mind--G. Whyte-Melville’s 1800’s parlour song, Sleep, My Love, Sleep.

Sleep, my love, sleep, rest, my love, rest.

Dieth the moan of the wind in the tree…

Tossing and troubled and thinking of me,

Weary of watching and waiting for me.

Half sleeping, thinking and dreaming,

And dreaming of me… dreaming of me.
McCall absently wiped a small tear and repeated the chorus.

Thanks all above--Yes, Ray, I went ahead and did the above.

Thanks job, I don't feel comfortable interrupting the song right now. I didn't quote the whole song as it was, just bits and pieces, she's picking up on. As she is just learning the song, sorta--if that makes sense.

job · Nov 23, 2007

kimmi said:
Thanks job, I don't feel comfortable interrupting the song right now. I didn't quote the whole song as it was, just bits and pieces, she's picking up on. As she is just learning the song, sorta--if that makes sense.

You should absolutely go with the scene as you 'see and hear' it, because your vision is always the right one.

That was just an example of one way to do it, if you needed to run action or internals at the same time as the song.
I'm not urging you to change what you've got, (which looks fine and dandy, btw.)

aliajohnson · Nov 23, 2007

Looks like you got the answers you needed, Kimmi. There's another thread around here that debates the underline vs. italics question. I think it may be in ask the agent. I believe it was agreed that whichever you choose works as it's easy to change if an agent or publisher has a preference. If I'm wrong, someone let me know.

Little Red Barn · Nov 23, 2007

aliajohnson said:
Looks like you got the answers you needed, Kimmi. There's another thread around here that debates the underline vs. italics question. I think it may be in ask the agent. I believe it was agreed that whichever you choose works as it's easy to change if an agent or publisher has a preference. If I'm wrong, someone let me know.

Big thanks job, I certainly see where yours works and very well! Just the first draft, so I'm sure to make many changes... I've already dealt with a disgruntled mc and his career, finally surrended and am letting him change careers after a few years, to a more challenging-charged one.

Ali, thanks sweetie, got it and atcha tomorrow!

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