When you get there, what do you expect to see?

Nateskate · Feb 20, 2005

In a previous thread I talked about "Dreams". Dreams are great, but not all dreams are what you expect when you get there. When you are a teen, you dream of your first "new" car. Some people might really get into cars, but generally for most people, the "newness" wears off fast, and after enough cars and car payments, you are rather sick of anything with four wheels, and wished we still rode horses.

Same thing happens with dating and the reality that meaningful relationships that last will require hard work at some point, sacrifice, forgiveness and sometimes giving up a dream or two.

Okay, lets say you get wealthy. Let's say you get famous. Let's say you get on Oprah, Letterman, the Daily Show, Ellen, or whomever floats your boat, do you think that arriving will be exactly as glamorous as you think?

Now, here's a thread where dreamers and "Already-Been-Theres" can contribute.

To me, this whole process (Hoping to be Published) is like childbirth, and hard labor at that. You are doing it because you are expecting this wonderful package. But Newbie parents find out that kids get ear infections that keep them up screaming all night, and then there's dealing with the schools if your kid has ADHD or Aspergers or some other learning problem. Yeah, kids are great, I raised two, and love them both, but there were many times I longed to be admitted to a mental hospital just to get a break from their constant fighting and driving my wife up the wall.

Let's face it. Look at "Behind the music", Jen and Ben 1 and 2, Jessica and Nick, Jen and Brad. Famous wealthy people don't always look so happy.

Do any of you temper your dreams realizing that when you get to the top of the mountain, it's not as illustrious as you imagined? I'm not saying don't go there. If you are a writer, you are constantly pregnant with something longing to get born, so you just have to do it anyway. There's no two ways about it, I'm not keeping this baby inside. But, I'm not so sure what "over the rainbow" is going to look like until I get there.

Ali B · Feb 20, 2005

For me all dreams are iffy, but usually they are worth dreaming.
When I was a girl I always dreamed of being on the Oprah show with my latest book. Now I realize that dream is kinda funny since I have social anxiety. lol Still, it kept me writing and submitting. The dream is why I'm a published writer, even if the dream may never come true.

Nateskate · Feb 20, 2005

alinasandor said:
For me all dreams are iffy, but usually they are worth dreaming.
When I was a girl I always dreamed of being on the Oprah show with my latest book. Now I realize that dream is kinda funny since I have social anxiety. lol Still, it kept me writing and submitting. The dream is why I'm a published writer, even if the dream may never come true.

Hi Alina. Good to see you. I think dreams are iffy as well. Every time I reached a goal, it was never what I hoped. But that has nothing to do with externals as much as it does with the internal wiring and what makes us tick.

In general, I've had to work at being positive and a cup half full person.

The people who really tend to enjoy fame the most are driven people who have a megalomaniac bent. Why? Because fame is actually inconvenient. None of us are by nature good at being worshiped. That's why I think so many rock stars end up blowing it all. Or why people like Mel Gibson thought of ending it all.

There is an insanity to being recognized and put on a pedistal and having unrealistic expectations. I think at first, "I'm going to be delighted to see my book on a Bestsellers list at B&N, but then I'd realize, "What about the sophomore jitters? Will I feel pressured by the expectations to make book number two a success?"

Of course, many people here are already successful and happy, and have the perfect disposition for being where they are. Maybe I'm an introspective quirk, and think too much. Forget that, I am an instrosective quirk that thinks too much!

I don't have social anxiety per se. But I sympathise. The first time I spoke in front of hundreds, I was nervous. Then I got used to it. Then I spoke in front of thousands, and I wasn't used to it anymore. But even having the ability to speak in front of people, I've wrestled with other forms of anxiety.

During one period in my life, when I had health problems, constant sleep deprivation and a tremendous amount of stress, I had full blown panic attacks, which suck in traffic. In fact, I had them wake me out of a sleep. Worse yet, I had enough health problems that I couldn't tell if it was a panic attack, asthma attack or cardiac related, which really sucks. Why? Because I have asthma, and too much of the medication can cause me to go into arrythmias (Anyone else here cardioverted?) So, if I was having SOB, I'd rather ride it out than take too much asthma medicine, which is a terrible catch 22. Hope that isn't TMI.

Azure Skye · Feb 20, 2005

I like to dream but I know from a lifetime of experience that the dream and reality usually don't match. For the longest time I fantasized about living a writer's life or what I thought it would be like to live that life. Since I really began writing consistently, I see now that a writer's life is about work and a lot of it. Now, when I fantasize about living a writer's life, I imagine myself working 6-8 hours a day. The dream is still appealing and fun to think about but now it's based more in the reality of it.

cwfgal · Feb 20, 2005

I learned at some point in my life (though I can't tell you exactly when it happened) that the only measure of success for me is my own level of happiness and contentment. I set goals for myself and when I reach them, I set new goals. This is a neverending process so I always have something I'm working toward. There is always something new and exciting to experience on the horizon; possibilities await me around every turn.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that I bore easily. It's why I love working in the ER (I'm a nurse) because you never know what's going to come through that door next. It's also one of the reasons I love to write--each writing project is a new adventure.

I've been published in both fiction and nonfiction, I've had two of my novels optioned for movies. Those writing milestones have been achieved but there are others I will continue to strive for. I'm not sure "fame" is one of them. It really doesn't appeal to me all that much because at heart I'm a person who values my privacy and my solitude.

I've learned that someone else's definition of success isn't necessarily my own. After working my way up the ladder in my nursing career to management positions -- the supposed determination of "success" -- I discovered that I was much happier doing patient care. When I succeeded enough in my writing that I was able to support myself on it alone and work from home, I discovered after a few years of doing it that I was actually happier doing writing part time only and keeping an outside job. So while many writers envision that work-from-home-support-yourself-with-your-writing ideal as "success," for me it didn't hold true. One caveat here: To support myself with writing alone I was producing both fiction and nonfiction stuff. I discovered that I don't really enjoy nonfiction writing all that much and if I could make enough to support myself on my fiction alone, I might (MIGHT) give up my nursing job. Although I honestly think I'd keep doing the nursing stuff on a very part time basis in a way that would let me choose my own schedule.

I guess all that is a long way of saying that I dream about the things I haven't yet experienced, and I anticipate whatever new adventures await me in my writing and in my life. If being on Oprah happens, fine. But it's not a specific goal for me. Ultimately, my only real goal is to be happy and content. I think that's true for most people but everyone has to determine for themselves what it will take for that to happen.

Beth

Fillanzea · Feb 20, 2005

Anne Lamott's "Bird by Bird" is wise and hilarious on this point.

She says that if you're unhappy as an unpublished writer, you're going to be no happier as a published writer. Your books get returned, they don't earn out, they get awful reviews, nobody recognizes you on the street. Or if you're one of the lucky few superstars, the books get turned into awful movies.

So I don't really imagine much glamor, though the nice little ranch home with a grand piano and a Border Collie isn't too far from my mind.

I'll be cool with whatever happens.

But my Sooper Sekrit dream is to have a book that gets challenged and removed from school libraries. I live for the controversy, man. That's glamor.

Jamesaritchie · Feb 20, 2005

When you get there.

I hate to say something that's total cliche, but it's true, so I will. I learned a long time ago that what matters is whether or not you're happy during the journey. If you are, you don't have to worry about what happens when you reach your destination. If you aren't, the destination will probably be a big disappointment.

On the other side of the coin, I've also learned that while money can't buy happiness, it can certainly stave off much of the unhappiness that poverty brings.

black winged fighter · Feb 20, 2005

I'm a realist daydreamer, however strange that may sound. When I dream something, I can instantly detect the fake glow of perfection, but this does not detract from the dream for me.

Writing is what I love, and when I fantasize about being an author, I hardly ever think about tours or talk shows. For me, the best part would be sitting by the computer for eight hours and typing away. If people will buy my books and let me write more, my wishes will be fulfilled.

Even so, these are high hopes, and I temper them with reality often. But while I am practical, I feel that optimism is the key to success. That, and perseverance.

victoriastrauss · Feb 20, 2005

Fillanzea said:
She says that if you're unhappy as an unpublished writer, you're going to be no happier as a published writer.

This is very true, I think.

On the other hand, it is a fact that getting published, which many aspiring writers see as the end of the struggle, is really just the beginning of a different struggle. Every stage has its own challenges.

- Victoria

Mistook · Feb 20, 2005

I expect deadlines, conflict, confrontations, situations where I can't smoke or drink when I feel like it. I expect headaches. But hey... I'm getting all that now being a nobody.

I don't expect all my worries and woes to just melt away and find myself living in paradise... I mean not until after I die... and even that is a bit iffy

If my dreams were to come true, then I do expect that the experience would be worth all the trouble. I think I'd die fairy happy, knowing I accomplished a few things that they'll talk about for a while.

I gotta say though, I'm really banking on that afterlife to make all this BS truly worthwhile.

maestrowork · Feb 20, 2005

Dreams are good to have, to motivate us, but don't set yourself up with expectations. That you think "happily ever after" is a tautology. That reaching your dreams will solve all your problems, etc.

I agree with the journey vs. destination idea. Part of the fun is the journey. As long as you put everything in perspective, I think you'll be fine.

Handicop · Feb 21, 2005

"Dreams I'll never see", it's still one of my favorite songs. I actually like the Molly Hatchet cover, it's the only Allman Bros. cover that I do like. It runs through my head every time I watch Charlie Rose.

Elizabeth · Feb 21, 2005

Jamesaritchie said:
I hate to say something that's total cliche, but it's true, so I will. I learned a long time ago that what matters is whether or not you're happy during the journey. If you are, you don't have to worry about what happens when you reach your destination. If you aren't, the destination will probably be a big disappointment.

I don't think this is totally cliche, actually. I haven't heard it in a while, and it's really worth remembering.

RGame · Feb 21, 2005

I never actually dreamt about fame. My biggest goal was always just to be able to go into a bookstore and have a book of mine on the shelf. Or simply to be able to hold a book filled with words I had written.

I used to dream of being in a specific magazine, and occasionally I've been able to get into that magazine. But after a day or two of looking at it, I usually just put it in a drawer and never look at it again. So I'm guessing even the excitement of holding your own book would wear off fairly quickly. But that's still my main goal.

Ali B · Feb 21, 2005

RGame said:
I used to dream of being in a specific magazine, and occasionally I've been able to get into that magazine. But after a day or two of looking at it, I usually just put it in a drawer and never look at it again.

Yep, same thing happened to me. Strange, huh? You spend all that time on that goal and after a while it's like, "Okay, whatever."

Nateskate · Feb 21, 2005

cwfgal said:
I learned at some point in my life (though I can't tell you exactly when it happened) that the only measure of success for me is my own level of happiness and contentment. I set goals for myself and when I reach them, I set new goals. This is a neverending process so I always have something I'm working toward. There is always something new and exciting to experience on the horizon; possibilities await me around every turn.

I think a lot of this comes from the fact that I bore easily. It's why I love working in the ER (I'm a nurse) because you never know what's going to come through that door next. It's also one of the reasons I love to write--each writing project is a new adventure.

I've been published in both fiction and nonfiction, I've had two of my novels optioned for movies. Those writing milestones have been achieved but there are others I will continue to strive for. I'm not sure "fame" is one of them. It really doesn't appeal to me all that much because at heart I'm a person who values my privacy and my solitude. Beth

My wife is also a nurse, actually a CRNP and college prof, who also did ER and CCU. She's also published in medical books and journals. She's at the top of her field, and will soon have her Ph.D, but the things that float her boat so to speak, is doing Medical Missions in the 3rd world, where they don't even have EKG machines, and you have to bag vent patients by hand. It's helping AIDS babies in parts of Haiti where the orphans forage for food with pigs and goats.

Just my two cents, some of us need to be hands on, interacting with other people, and thats where we find the most satisfaction. I still dream of getting on Oprah, but I wonder if I'll end up feeling disappointed and disallusioned when its all said and done. To me, fame seems like eating junkfood all day. You always feel sick to your stomach, and wished you'd eaten something else.

Nateskate · Feb 21, 2005

Fillanzea said:
Anne Lamott's "Bird by Bird" is wise and hilarious on this point.

She says that if you're unhappy as an unpublished writer, you're going to be no happier as a published writer. Your books get returned, they don't earn out, they get awful reviews, nobody recognizes you on the street. Or if you're one of the lucky few superstars, the books get turned into awful movies.

So I don't really imagine much glamor, though the nice little ranch home with a grand piano and a Border Collie isn't too far from my mind. I'll be cool with whatever happens.

But my Sooper Sekrit dream is to have a book that gets challenged and removed from school libraries. I live for the controversy, man. That's glamor.

I just love so much about this post. The common sense, fame isn't all its cracked up to be. The practicality of wanting that little Oasis. Mine is a log cabin in the woods. And the sense of humor. I'm a controversy magnate!

Nateskate · Feb 21, 2005

maestrowork said:
Dreams are good to have, to motivate us, but don't set yourself up with expectations. That you think "happily ever after" is a tautology. That reaching your dreams will solve all your problems, etc.

I agree with the journey vs. destination idea. Part of the fun is the journey. As long as you put everything in perspective, I think you'll be fine.

Good common sense and I agree wholeheartedly.

Nateskate · Feb 21, 2005

RGame said:
So I'm guessing even the excitement of holding your own book would wear off fairly quickly. But that's still my main goal.

Amen brother, you found the right church!

katdad · Feb 21, 2005

Reality check

We all have daydreams about a hugely successful novel bringing us wealth and fame. And a modest amount of dreaming is okay, as I see it.

I envision my mystery novel winning the Shamus award and an Edgar, too. I envision screenplay options and a TV-movie on FX. I envision sitting at a book-signing and happily autographing a big stack of hardbacks for eager fans. I envision signing a big fat multi-book contract for a chunk of change.

All these daydreams are healthy and a good way to blow off steam.

What we don't want to do is let the dreams interfere with reality. And reality is that my agent will possibly sell my 1st novel for a modest sum this year, and that he'll then sell the 2nd novel for a larger amount. Reality is that I may get some nice reviews and modest commercial sales success, and that I may, with luck, be nominated for a Shamus.

By the way, I'll stick to my car. Horses hate me, have big teeth, and they leave poop. They are also kinda awful in the rain, and hell to drive around when you have a date.

Coco82 · Feb 21, 2005

I'd like to reach a modest point of success so as I can buy a nice place in So. Cali and live a nice life. I'm not necessarily looking for a mansion and recognition, though that'd be nice. I would like to be able to make a career of this though in some from whether screenwritng, novells, or another type.

Denis Castellan · Feb 21, 2005

Nateskate said:
Okay, lets say you get wealthy. Let's say you get famous. Let's say you get on Oprah, Letterman, the Daily Show, Ellen, or whomever floats your boat, do you think that arriving will be exactly as glamorous as you think?

I'd go for wealth rather than fame. I don't know about your shows in the USA, but I wouldn't mind not being invited to any of our shows in France (except maybe for one where they have interesting music bands from time to time...)

When I say wealth, I mean earning enough from my books for not having to work for a living somewhere else. I would have time to write and make some music too.

But what I'd like most is seeing the people I know say that I'm worth something, finally. Nothing like glamour there, I think

Coco82 · Feb 21, 2005

Denis Castellan said:
I'd go for wealth rather than fame. I don't know about your shows in the USA, but I wouldn't mind not being invited to any of our shows in France (except maybe for one where they have interesting music bands from time to time...)

When I say wealth, I mean earning enough from my books for not having to work for a living somewhere else. I would have time to write and make some music too.

But what I'd like most is seeing the people I know say that I'm worth something, finally. Nothing like glamour there, I think

That's a good way of putting it. I don't want fame really. I'd like though to make enough that I can sit back and do writing as a living w/o having a second job. Right now I'm in college and taking classes in writing so I hope to do it for a livinng. Otherwise I'd major in something else.

maestrowork · Feb 21, 2005

The funny thing is, I don't think there's ever going to be a "there" for me. I'm always moving on. And I've "been there" before -- meaning, I've reached my goals many times over. My goals are never anything like "make $X million of dollars, etc." I mean, if those were my actual goals, I have a feeling that I would have achieved them already (I have every opportunity to make lots of money in the past 10 years...) Money simply is not an objective for me, at this point (well, okay, I'd like to not starve and become homeless...)

Fame and wealth are also relative. How much is enough? I'd be hypocritical if I say fame and fortune don't do anything for me. They could be nice... IF I can put it all in perspective. Life is more than that. I mean, I have been there (no I am not famous or wealthy... but)... I've been in movies -- I mean I saw my face 15 feet high on a screen in a movie theater. I've been on TV and been spokesperson in commercials. I've peformed in a Broadway play in front of thousands of people. These experiences were NICE. They became part of me. They're part of me, part of my journey -- they were never my destinations.

At the end of the day, I'm still the same person. I AM the journey.

Another analogy would be this: I set out to go to San Francisco -- and I did, now I'm moving on to somewhere else... New York, maybe? And when I do finally get to New York... I will drink it all in, enjoy my experience and how I actually got there... then I'll move on again. Maybe this time to Paris. Or maybe years from now I'd like to go back to San Francisco again. Life to me is a big frigging carnival. After I'm done with the marry-go-round, I want to try the roller coasters. Then I'd like to see play a game of toss...

I suspect that once I achieve some success with my writing, maybe sell a few books, I'd want to do something else. I won't sit still until the day I die. There's always something else to try, to learn, to play with, to master... I think it's very exciting, and I can't wait to keep doing that for years and years to come.

Liam Jackson · Feb 22, 2005

There's an inherent problem with dreams. First, let me say that I believe in the power of dreams. Dreams are part of the three part equation for success: Conceive, believe, and achieve.

However, when we dream, we generally only visualize the most desirable reward, without regard to the other baggage that comes with success. In some cases, we can't see that baggage beforehand, and it's difficult to prepare for something when you don't even know it exists. Like the old saying goes, "We don't know what we don't know."

Consider that a dream-come-true isn't an end. It's actually a new beginning...baggage and all.

Just my two bits. (adjusted for inflation)

When you get there, what do you expect to see?

Nateskate

Ali B

Just Hanging Around

Nateskate

Azure Skye

Huh?

cwfgal

On the rocks

Fillanzea

Jamesaritchie

black winged fighter

AW Addict

victoriastrauss

Writer Beware Goddess

Mistook

Neverending WIP

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Handicop

Elizabeth

RGame

Some guy

Ali B

Just Hanging Around

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

Nateskate

katdad

Registered curmudgeon

Coco82

Denis Castellan

Excuse my French...

Coco82

maestrowork

Fear the Death Ray

Liam Jackson

Heathen Horde Elder