At What Point Would You...

If you are a writer then never.

WVWriterGirl said:

...throw in the towel?

1. I don't have anyone outside of close family and friends to act as "readers", so I'm stuck in the "Yeah, it's good!" trap.

Click to expand...

You have AW. Have you tried looking for beta-readers in the beta-readers room?

Don't ever throw in the towel. Don't do it. I know that sounds trite, but really, don't do it.

I think you need to keep writing for the same simple reason you started in the first place all those years ago: because you love it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Maybe you'll never sell anything. Maybe you'll never be published. But something more than the fantasy of landing an agent and publisher carried you through the long, difficult, and exhilarating process of writing your novel. Your heart had to have been in it somewhere.

I'm not a great cook, but I still like cooking. I'll never win Wimbledon, but I still play tennis. I've never been published, but I still write.

My short term advice is to take a break. For a week or so, do nothing connected with writing. Don't think about it (hard, I know, but do your best). If you want to take a break for longer than a week, do that.

After that, come back to writing with fresh eyes. Have a look here for beta readers and start thinking about something new, something completely unrelated to any of your previous work.

And keep your chin up.

I've queried close to 60 agents for my completed novel and have only requested a partial from 1 agent

Click to expand...

That's actually good news.

If you were getting requests for partials but then the agents were turning you down - then it means that the writing wasn't grabbing their attention.

But if they aren't asking even for the novel, then surely it indicates a problem with the QUERY LETTER rather than the novel?

Wouldn't you rather rewrite a one page letter rather than an entire novel !?

Why don't you post your query letter in the critique section for some help ?

Good luck,

Mac

Mac H. said:

But if they aren't asking even for the novel, then surely it indicates a problem with the QUERY LETTER rather than the novel?

Click to expand...

I agree with this. Maybe you can enlist some help with redrafting the query letter. Know anyone with marketing experience? Then try 60 more agents.

I agree with the OP, never give up and revamp that query letter. Maybe post the query and part of the first chapter in SYW....Hang tough, sweetie, we all get these feelings.

It seems like you hear stories all the time about famous authors who had enough rejections before being published they could have given us all a run for our money...the latest one I heard of was a keynote address at a writer's conference given by Jodi Picoult who was rejected by 70-something agents before someone took her on. What I guess I'm saying is, if you believe in your work, keep plugging away. Enjoy your writing on it's own, also. I agree with Sean when he said take a break for a little bit so you can compose yourself.

As a side note, the folks in the query crit section can help you out a LOT. I had gotten twenty-one rejections from my query letter, then I got in there and got it critiqued and soon after got a request for a partial. The partial's still out, but the point is, my query got interest it wasn't getting before. So if you think there might be a problem there, there are some great folks over there that can help!

Good luck...and don't give up! I know it's tough when things aren't going good to see the point, but I think all writers have "go there" sometimes.

Definitely join a critique group, whether online or in person.

Also, at this point, you may want to consider networking. Not just to make "contacts" per se, but to associate with people who know more about the inner workings of the industry and can help you figure out where you may be going wrong.

AW is awesome for that, of course, but going to conferences, meeting editors and agents-- you know, that kind of thing-- might give a boost to your career.

WVWriterGirl said:

When do you say, okay, that's enough, maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, and I give up?

Click to expand...

Almost every day! And then I continue writing.

If I had a dime for every time I thought about chucking it, that I sucked, I'd never sell - I wouldn't need to sell anything. I've been writing forever - I began submitting when I was in my late teens. I finally sold this year. In between, I took breaks, I started a family - etc - but kept writing the entire time. I can't ever give it up - I agree with Orion. If you're a writer, you're a writer for life.

Maybe you need to try something completely different from whatever genre you've been writing. To be an echo again, if you aren't getting grabs from a letter, it's not your writing, but your query. Queries are hard to write - IMHO - but they are a necessary evil.

Take advantage of the SYW forums - there are plenty of people here who would crit you and give you some great feedback.

I'm going to diverge a little from the advice given so far (not that it's not great advice -- it is, but there is something that might work better).

You seem to have queried sixty agents with one novel. Is that right? And it looks like you have others in the works. Here's what I would do (what I have done, actually, and it worked... I do have an agent now).

Pick the strongest out of your current WIPs. Finish that one. Edit the shit out of it, get a beta reader or two, and query that one. Set your finished MS aside for now and make the rounds with a new project.

One, it'll get you a break from the query process while you finish writing something else. And two, your new writing will be even better than your older work (no matter how much you edit that one, it's still your first completed novel) because of how much you've learned about writing. Save that first one, get someone to take you on with your second... or third or fourth (no, don't despair! It's not as bad as it sounds!).

And never give up.

WVWriterGirl said:

...throw in the towel?

I'll warn you now, this post is probably going to be a bit of a downer, and a big fat trip into self-pity and confidence loss, but I gotta know. I'll give you some backstory:

1. I work on the novels I have in the works until my hands refuse to work any longer; How many completed novels are we talking about here? Ones that aren't completed yet don't count for this problem.
2. I submit to every market I think will appreciate my work and my stories, but have never sold anything; I'm not sure what you're trying to sell? Novels? Short stories? Nonfiction articles? Why do you think you haven't sold anything?
3. I've queried close to 60 agents for my completed novel and have only requested a partial from 1 agent (who turned out to be not for me); Could be you have major query problems (many that I see in SYW query letter hell would initially cause me to run in the other direction). It could be you have a problem like word count. It could be an umarketable idea. Why do you think your query letter isn't working.
4. I've been writing seriously for about ten years, learning about technique, style, characterization, plot, flow...all the things we learn about. I'm not sitting on my duff expecting it to come without work on my part; and At the moment, it doesn't appear that you're being judged on any of that.
5. I don't have anyone outside of close family and friends to act as "readers", so I'm stuck in the "Yeah, it's good!" trap. Go to share your work in your genre. Try some editing. See if you're having a reaction of it I don't like it here, why do I think it works in my book. Offer to trade editing with people. We're all desperate for readers and most of us would happily trade manuscripts. Go to your local college and see if they have any sort of critique groups. See if your local library has a book discussion group. Go there and see if after you've been there for a while you can con someone into reading it.

My question is this: When do you say, okay, that's enough, maybe I'm not as good as I think I am, and I give up? Apparently for you, not yet. What more can I do? You've used up every idea you can think of? I doubt it. I'm frustrated, I'm pissed, and my skin is as thick as it can get without impeding the act of walking. I don't know what else to do, I don't know where to turn, and I'm about to throw in that well-known towel.

Click to expand...

One thing I'd suggest doing is having a marketing retreat meeting. Normally, you have a bunch of people for these things, but you can do it for yourself.

Ideally, get out of the house, but if you have to stay home, block out a time when no one will disturb you. You need at least two hours for each session (there is going to be two). For each session, you need to be relaxed, and booze is permitted, if it works for you. Good music on the radio.

The first session is "How I Suck as a Writer!" For this session, I want you to write down every possibility on why your writing sucks. I don't care whether it's because you think you use the word "I" too often, or your formating is wrong. Every possible error you think you might have.

Do not be critical of any of the things you come up with. This is entirely brainstorming, and many of the ideas are probably going to be wrong. That doesn't matter at this stage in the game. Just make up a list, making it as long as possible.

After you get done with this session, take a break. Relax, go do something physical, get yourself into a state where you're not thinking about writing at all.

After your break of at least one hour, start session two which is "Why doesn't my writing sell?" Again, there are no dumb ideas here. Anything and everything is fair game. And again, the longer the list, the better.

Now put both of these lists away for at least a week.

After a week, reread both lists. Pick what you think are the ten biggest problems on each and start figuring out how to correct them.

Best of luck,

Jim Clark-Dawe

WVWG, the suggestions here are good. Find a beta reader. Put the query into SYW so the more experienced here can help you with it.

But ultimately, the decision lies with you. If you love writing, love the act of creation, then you'll continue to write whether you are successful or not.

I've been struggling for 35 years. Every time I think of giving up, I think, but maybe that acceptance is right around the corner. Maybe that agent who wants me is just one more stamp away.

Never quit. It may take years. Give yourself more time -- till your last breath on the gurney if necessary. Read some praised best-sellers aka how does this exrement get published?), see how much better you can write, and keep at it.

www,donaldmichaelplatt.com

This might be heartless--but are you only writing for publication? Is that why you started on this road? If it is, you'd have better odds betting your house in Vegas in a known crooked casino than trying to get published.

Writing is something you do because you gain something personal from it--whatever that is. Being published is something, but it can't be everything. It's so out of any individual's control. Best to work for whatever satisfaction and joy you get out of writing yourself. Not only will it improve your outlook, but it'll make your work glow in a special way that readers do notice.

Quit

I think yo throw in the towel whenever you want to throw in the towel. There's nothing special about being a writer, and no law that says you can't quit whenever you feel like quitting, and there's nothing sane or noble about continuing to do anything when you rather not do so. When writing stops being enjoyable, or when you find something else you'd rather be doing, or when then it makes no sense to continue.

W. C. Fields, or Mark Twain, or someone once said, "If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. If you still don't succeed, quit. There's no use being a damn fool about it."

In you case, however, it does sound like it's your query that's bad, not your novel. You need to learn to write a better query letter.

And you need to finish five or six novels. This really shouldn't take all that long. When you have a good query letter, and when your fifth or sixth finished, polished novel is still drawing nothing but rejections, it's probably time to look for a new profession.

So much good advice here (I especially loved Jim's ideas for a retreat - especially with booze - to write out and conquer the "why I suck as a writer" problem) that I won't give you any (except listen to all these sages.)

I just wanted to say I myself will never quit writing because I love to write. Will I quit seeking publication? I hope not, but I can't answer that one yet. But stop writing? Never. It is in my blood. Stories beg to be written and I oblige. Writing is my pulpit, my therapy, and my method of decompressing. It always has been and probably always will be.

Write for yourself first and publication second. Oh, no - that sounds like advice, doesn't it? Just a little eensy-weensy bit of it. That's all.

If you're writing because you want to support yourself with writing, take a step back and reevaluate. If you write for the love of it, never stop. In fact, I'd say it'd be impossible for you to do so. Those who write because they love the act always find their way back, rejections be damned.

Here's a quote from Stephen King that may help put things in perspective:

If you're not talented, you will not succeed. And if you're not succeeding, you should know when to quit.

When is that? I don't know. It's different for each writer. Not after six rejection slips, certainly, nor after sixty. But after six hundred? Maybe. After six thousand? My friend, after six thousand pinks, it's time you tried painting or possibly computer programming.

---

That might come across as harsh, but my point is, 60 is not such a crazily high number that you should immediately throw in the towel. Even King says so.

I don't have much to add, because everything seems to have been said. There is no worse feeling than that of utter failure. I toed that line over the weekend (long story and this isn't my thread), but I never crossed it. Something always brings me back, and that's a firm belief that maybe, just maybe, the next book will be "The One."

Work on that query. Finish a few more books. Get some new betas. Down some tequila shots. Throw darts at your rejection letters. Take a break, clear your head, and then get back to things with a fresh perspective.

Good luck.

I went down the spiral of depression last weekend, and I'm back here on the other side. So here's my thought: if the pleasure of writing still exceeds the misery of the submission/query process, keep writing. (Even if it means you have to take a break from subbing for a week or two.)

And by all means follow the two pieces of advice I've seen above:
1. Post for a beta reader! You must recruit readers to know whether your book is succeeding at reaching readers.
2. Put your query letter up for critique. If agents aren't requesting the MS, they're rejecting the query letter.

This could have been my post a couple of weeks ago. I had so may pressures in my life keeping me from writing and so little positive reinforcement to keep me at it that I wondered why I was fighting the inevitable.

I thought to myself: I write because I have to, because I can't help myself sometimes, but I'm not going to give up other things in my life to do it, which means that I'll never finish anything and never get published. That's kind of throwing in the towel, isn't it? Well, it's where I was and it sounds like that's where you are now. I was almost depressed about it.

And then I saw a thread on here. One about an agent who had posted some concepts he wanted to see from writers. One of them matched my current, ignored, WIP and with no regard for reality I got my hopes up. That small, teeny tiny crack of light was enough to guide me back to my computer and reread what Id done (quite excellent of course) and press on. Now I have the writing bug again and know that one day I will be able to share my genius with the world.

So, don't be afraid to take a break. But don't write yourself off as a writer. If you are a writer (and with that much work and effort invested, I am guessing you are), it'll come back. It will.

Writing for a long time without getting the success you want is painful, but I imagine that giving up after a decade and wondering every after whether you could have been a contender would be much worse.

WVWWritergirl,

Please forgive me if I am blunt. It seems that you are not waiting for people to tell you to quit, but for people to encourage you to write on.

While we can certainly do that, you are responsible for improving your work if you want to publish anything.

You have posted a story for critique in the SYW forum, and have received great crits. Many referred only to the beginning parts of your story. My advice to you would be to take the first 1000 words of this story and work on those 1000 words until they shine. The critiquers will tell you when that moment arrives. Then work on the next 1000, then the next, until you have learned to correct all mistakes in one story. This will teach you lots and lots about your writing and how to improve it.

At this point you will also have beta-readers, people who are invested in your work.

Good luck with your writing!
Rose