Research Blues

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Zelenka

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When you're researching your historical novel, have you ever reached the point where there is simply so much information available that it seems impossible that you'll ever know enough to produce an accurate picture of the period?

I started off okay today, really just confirming facts I already had, but then the more books I've fished out of my library, the more details they've added to the account I just read, then there are all the primary sources I downloaded from Early English Books Online, and I just figure no matter how much I check or keep accurate, I'll still get something wrong. I'm starting to wonder if I'm biting off more than I can chew here.

How do you know when you have enough information to just write the story?

JessR
 

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This is a quote from Bernard Cornwell's website on the subject. I heard him speak at the HNS conference this summer - when I was in the midst of being overwhelmed by my research - he said something along these lines and his words helped me to clarify and focus on my story:

"Research, how much is needed? The answer is annoyingly contradictory - both more than you can ever do and only as much as is needed. By that I mean that you can never know enough about your chosen period, and so your whole life becomes a research project into the 16th or 18th or whatever century it is you are writing about, but when it comes to a specific book there really can be too much research. Why explore eighteenth century furniture making if the book doesn’t feature furniture? Do as much research as you feel comfortable doing, write the book and see where the gaps are, then go and research the gaps. But don’t get hung up on research - some folk do nothing but research and never get round to writing the book."
 

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Research is...

hard, Jess, but if you love your era, have read good general, social and political histories on it, have a couple of good Children's books like a 'Day in the Life of a Stuart' on your shelf and a good costume book to hand, then you can stop quaking and write.

Every time you hit a 'Huh what did they do in the17thC?' spot you mark it in coloured caps or lines of *** or !!! and get on with telling the story. You yourself said that it was that which the reader wants. It is.

You can patch in the details later and you simply make your life a huge learning experience. Where ever you go you 'poke your nose' into museums and craft places and old houses. You listen to old people and read odd books, like 'Lace making through the Ages' and 'A Farmer's Boy' every week. You scan the library shelves weekly for biographies of ordinary people. You read Diary Junction where you download ordinary people's diaries. Everything you read you can scan with your historical writer's creative brain and pick out a little for the next book. You also begin to see how people are people and how basic needs like food and money and transport and a home cross the time lines and are a driving need in any era.

Never miss a chance to do or see something that others think is crazy, like the re-enactors or spending a weekend in an Iron age village. It's only by doing this that you get the smells and tastes and touch details which your readers will love. The National Trust are always looking for volunteers to help at their houses and they run holidays where you work in specific places. See their website for details. It's an excellent way of getting into the heart of a farm or Great House or village or castle or area.

Really LOOK at every house you see, go round people's gardens on those open garden visits and get inside a range of houses. People love to show you round their home if you are enthusiastic about its structure and history. You live in a country with its history right out in the open for you to grab and use.

I'd like to know why you are writing about Edge Hill and English History when the Bishop's War between Charles 1 and Scotland is so much more unknown in novels, a real smack in the face for King and England, and something exciting to write about! Am I wrong and you are not a Scot?
 
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Jersey Chick

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I'm a big fan of writing and researching to fill the gaps. That way I don't spend hours poring over things I don't really need, while I find the things I do need. It's enough to give flavor, without necessarily over-seasoning. :)
 

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PDR gave you good advice and you're in the right part of the world to be able to get to historic places to do research. I find research fascinating, but I admit I could easily become bogged down in it.

I think it helps a lot of your MC is not a historic figure because then you don't have to go into a real person's mind. It might also help if you read other people's novels set in the same time period. It may help you to focus on the things that place your novel in the right time period. Often it only needs a snippet or two.
 

Zelenka

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I'd like to know why you are writing about Edge Hill and English History when the Bishop's War between Charles 1 and Scotland is so much more unknown in novels, a real smack in the face for King and England, and something exciting to write about! Am I wrong and you are not a Scot?

The book isn't actually about Edgehill per se, it just starts there. The first chapter does set up the other parts but the original version was so long I didn't get to that in my post. With any luck the revised version will be more concise and the point of the book will be more obvious. I suppose it is still English history though.

As for why, I originally became interested in the English Civil War when I lived down in London. After I graduated from college the first time, I worked as a tour guide while I tried to fathom what I wanted to do, and part of my job involved taking people around the royal palaces and Horseguards. In researching those walks, I first came across that period in history in any detail and something about it just appealled. I did write a book last year that involved the Covenanters, but it was really awful and is consigned to the back of my hard drive. I know very little about the Bishops' War, other than the basics. It's actually taken me a long time to even get remotely interested in Scots History to be honest, since I've never felt particularly connected to this country, even though I was born here (and in the same town as Charles I). My family on both sides are actually English and have only been up here for a couple of generations.

I just had the idea for this book whilst I was looking for a dissertation topic for European Legal History last year and believed at the time that this would make a good story. Seventeenth Century England in general just really fascinates me.
 

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I'll echo what has already been said: do enough research to get the 'big picture' and frame your story within it, then fill in the little details as needed. Don't worry about being perfect; just worry about telling a good story.

Now here's the really hard part: once you've completed the first draft, go back and cut out at least 50% of all that really neat, historical data you just wrote in, because truth is those details are more interesting to you than to the average reader and too much detail just slows the story down (learned from experience).

Hang in there, and good luck!
 

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I want to echo what has been said. I do a bit of general background research (what people wore, what they ate, and how they got from one place to the other), and then start writing the story, leaving blanks and notes to myself in spots where I need to do more research. I constantly read as I'm writing (I do reading during the day, writing at night).

I think doing it ths way also helps me to avoid overloading on those details Bourbon Street mentioned, those that usually need to be deleted. When I'm going back through and seeing where I need to fill in the blanks, I weigh whether or not it is worth it to do the research there. Having already written that part, I'm able to see just how much information I wanted to research and how much space it fills. So before I run out and spend a long time researching what material Highlanders used to weave baskets, I double-check to see if I wanted to delete the whole scene on basket-weaving. If all that I'm left with is a sentence, 'She carried a basket woven out of XXXX] as the only mention of basket construction, then it's not worth it to me to go out and do that research, as this sounds like something that would just be deleted in the final draft.

Not sure if that made any sense!

Oh, and I completely agree with pdr about visiting museums, houses, gardens, and anywhere else they will let you in. Research is not only done in the library! I had read countless books about and seen many pictures of crofters' blackhouses, but until I went to the Highland Folk Museum and stepped into a reconstructed blackhouse, I didn't have a sense of the darkness, the smokiness, the feel of the place.

I'm also a sucker for those random little books that pdr mentioned! :) I just picked up one yesterday at a charity shop that is an oral history collection of one of Edinburgh's neighborhoods. I have several similar books in my personal collection. I'm delighted that such books were published, but some are so specific or so odd as to make me wonder if I and the person who brought it in to the charity shop are the only two people interested in such a topic!
 

Zelenka

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I want to echo what has been said. I do a bit of general background research (what people wore, what they ate, and how they got from one place to the other), and then start writing the story, leaving blanks and notes to myself in spots where I need to do more research. I constantly read as I'm writing (I do reading during the day, writing at night).

I think doing it ths way also helps me to avoid overloading on those details Bourbon Street mentioned, those that usually need to be deleted. When I'm going back through and seeing where I need to fill in the blanks, I weigh whether or not it is worth it to do the research there. Having already written that part, I'm able to see just how much information I wanted to research and how much space it fills. So before I run out and spend a long time researching what material Highlanders used to weave baskets, I double-check to see if I wanted to delete the whole scene on basket-weaving. If all that I'm left with is a sentence, 'She carried a basket woven out of XXXX] as the only mention of basket construction, then it's not worth it to me to go out and do that research, as this sounds like something that would just be deleted in the final draft.

Not sure if that made any sense!

Oh, and I completely agree with pdr about visiting museums, houses, gardens, and anywhere else they will let you in. Research is not only done in the library! I had read countless books about and seen many pictures of crofters' blackhouses, but until I went to the Highland Folk Museum and stepped into a reconstructed blackhouse, I didn't have a sense of the darkness, the smokiness, the feel of the place.

I'm also a sucker for those random little books that pdr mentioned! :) I just picked up one yesterday at a charity shop that is an oral history collection of one of Edinburgh's neighborhoods. I have several similar books in my personal collection. I'm delighted that such books were published, but some are so specific or so odd as to make me wonder if I and the person who brought it in to the charity shop are the only two people interested in such a topic!

That does make sense. See, my usual technique is to write it and research the individual details for each chapter as I come to it, for example if I mention a character has a certain type of weapon, I check that before I let it stay in the text (and have thankfully found the books with those references in so I feel a lot better about that now. Knew I'd checked it). But what I tend to do is write what my instinct would be, like if I wanted them to eat something I'd go with something I felt was period, then once I'd done the chapter I'd go back and double-check it. I keep a notebook beside me when I'm writing to jot down things like that so I can go back to them. I just started last night double checking details in the rewrite and it just got a little overwhelming. I looked at the section in the library yesterday and thought, 'what if there's something in one of those that contradicts what I've said - I'll never read them all!' And so that was why I panicked.

From the advice so far it sounds like I've been working the right way after all, so I feel much better now for that. Thanks you guys.

On visiting sites, the majority of my research has to be in the library I'm afraid for that old reason - money. I can't drive and train fares down to England are so exorbitant, it really limits what I can go and see. I'm working from memory most of the time therefore from having visited the places from London when I lived down there. It annoys me, because I know writing the book set in Edinburgh, I got an awful lot out of going there and looking round the places. Even that though was expensive (I mean, it's £11 to get into the Castle alone these days! I mention that because that really stung me).

I just hope what I can come up with works okay despite not being able to go there. If not, maybe I should write about the Bishop's War...;)

(actually joking aside, thanks pdr for mentioning that as I actually had an idea for a short story last night)
 

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There are often free or discount days, to get people in to see sites. St. Andrews Day has free admission to Edinburgh Castle (the only time I've been, as I can't reason spending £11 either!), I remember Historic Scotland had a free day when I visited Stirling Castle. Doors Open Day is another good one, and the program usually changes each year, giving you a chance to see different places.

Like you, I don't drive and don't have a car and, as a stay at home parent, don't have a lot extra to spend on research books and research material. But I'm able to find plenty to see and plenty to read. I may not be able to buy as many books as I would like to, but I'm able to add to my collection bit by bit with charity shop treasures. It's fantastic that you have access to a university library, as that should give you plenty of books that you might not be able to get at a public library.

I also put together my own little walking tours. Going around to look at the sites of photographs and drawings that I see in books, to see how those places have changed and how they have stayed the same. After reading memoirs, walking by houses that the author lived in. Visiting neighborhoods that I know were hit by bombs in the 2WW, and seeing the damage that still exists. Of course, working with the early 20th century, this might be easier than if I were working in an earlier period.

Actually, part of the reason that I'm drawn to really working with local history is that I can access both the place and the research materials much more easily and cheaply.
 

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Little details are one thing. I live in fear of coming across details that will derail the entire premise of the story I have planned, or at least force me to scrap large portions of it. Has that ever happened to anyone?

Here's an embarrassing revelation from a novice. My female MC attends Iowa State University during the 1920s. Researching the history of Iowa State was a low priority for me. I winced when I learned that it was called Iowa State College back then, and it didn't even have the department I needed it to have. And thank goodness Iowa State College was coed back then...that didn't even occur to me to check.

Addendum: I just came across the thread "When historical facts get in the way..." See?!? I'm always doing that! My problem is I much prefer writing to researching.
 
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PastMidnight

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Welcome, Drasheny!

Little details are one thing. I live in fear of coming across details that will derail the entire premise of the story I have planned, or at least force me to scrap large portions of it. Has that ever happened to anyone?

Oh, yes, that has happened to me! When it did, I just kept on writing with the new info and then changed the beginning half when I did my rewrite.

I'm not making much headway in a new project I have plotted out and I think it's because there's a pretty major plot detail that I haven't researched thoroughly and I'm afraid of that happening (finding out halfway through the book that things wouldn't quite work the way I wanted.

I'm curious about your 1920s story. You should post on the 'Your WIP time and place' thread. Sometimes I feel so alone here with my 20th century historical. :D
 

Zelenka

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Hi Drashney,
That's happened to me too. I can't remember the details as it was about a year ago, but I was writing a story set in the reign of Charles II, and had plotte dout all this action and drama, then discovered I'd got the dates wrong by ten years when I was writing my notes, which had thrown the whole thing off. That's what I get for having really strange handwriting.

I love 1920s stuff, by the way. Sounds an interesting project.
 

wee

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.... the more details they've added to the account I just read, then there are all the primary sources I downloaded from Early English Books Online, and I just figure no matter how much I check or keep accurate, I'll still get something wrong. I'm starting to wonder if I'm biting off more than I can chew here.

How do you know when you have enough information to just write the story?


Gosh, that is hard. I'm note-taking out of a book right now that refutes most of my other sources. It says 1) early anthropologists/archaeologists were prejudiced against these people & too ignorant to know what they were finding, and 2) the oral histories of these people are more accurate than most history books on the subject!

So now I'm taking a fresh view of it all. My opening scenes are taking place in the wrong place, LOL, one of my main characters was not a bad guy as I originally thought, but fell victim to political intrigues ... history continues to treat him unkindly, and mostly unfairly.

Here is what I'm aiming for:

--Can I picture a day in the life of my MC if nothing else was going on? How did this person sleep, get dressed, what kinds of getting-ready rituals did she have? How did spiritual beliefs affect daily life? How did this person get her food for every meal, and what kinds of routines happened? What were her core beliefs & motivations? What truly mattered to this person, what was society telling her mattered? What stage of life is she in?

I found a book of mythology for the culture I'm studying, from a very small independent local press that has a very limited circulation, but happened to be in a local museum. I found an old morality story about a mother who refuses to put down her own ambitions (of being a great basket-maker) so that she can properly train her children in the ways of per people. Another one about a father realizing that by treating the grandfather poorly, he is teaching his son how to treat him someday. These are stories from hundreds of years ago that could be pulled out of every day life in America, or a dozen other cultures, at any point in time.

So I want to know the details about daily life so that I know how to insert the motivations that will drive the plot that any reader could identify with. The details just help you put it in its place.

Also, I plan to continue research on the side as I continue writing ... so that I can make notes about what details should change. I need to know enough so that my major plot arcs are correct ... then I can get this thing on paper and fix details as I go along, as well as in revision.

Organizing my research better has changed everything! I'm sorting out by subject & character now instead of by source. On a single page I might have the details from 3-4 sources on one historical character (this will be upwards of 10-15 sources per subject before I'm done), with notes all over the margin about where contradictions occur & what is most likely, and notes to "see notes on this other subject" that show interrelation between people & subjects. It is getting more & more mucky as I go along, but doing it this way is helping tremendously. I'm getting a better picture of things.

Eventually you have to bite the bullet & just start writing. I'm in a huge push to finish my main research by Halloween so I can start writing heavily during NaNoWriMo ... Nano would only cover the first half or so of the book, but that would be a great headstart! It also gives me a deadline for when I have to have all this mostly done & must start banging it out either way.

Maybe try a deadline for when you must stop reading & start writing ... make a big push for this deadline & then just GO!
 

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money goes a long way for trips and things if you do as Past Midnight suggested, Jess. I think the National Trust holidays would be a great way to do research.
Look forward to seeing your Bishop's War story in SYW.

I can think of a very respectable publisher and their author who got a book into print with Elizabeth I's funeral date as 1605!

And I do know of a writer who set her Victorian novel about the evils of the Marriage laws after the laws had been altered! Her editor caught it.

It's so easy to get those major plot events wrong. When is a bastard a bastard? Who can inherit? Tricky stuff.
 

Zelenka

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money goes a long way for trips and things if you do as Past Midnight suggested, Jess. I think the National Trust holidays would be a great way to do research.
Look forward to seeing your Bishop's War story in SYW.

I can think of a very respectable publisher and their author who got a book into print with Elizabeth I's funeral date as 1605!

And I do know of a writer who set her Victorian novel about the evils of the Marriage laws after the laws had been altered! Her editor caught it.

It's so easy to get those major plot events wrong. When is a bastard a bastard? Who can inherit? Tricky stuff.

My favourite is a guidebook I have on London that has a picture in amongst the photo plates of the statue on Mary Queen of Scots House on Fleet Street. In the photo you can clearly see the inscription around the statue's base that says 'Mary Queen of Scots' and the caption beneath the photo reads, 'Statue of Lady Jane Grey'. I've also got a photographic book on London that says the dome of St Paul's cathedral is three feet high (as well as a book on the Scottish Legal System that consistently refers to trail judges who preside over trails, and actually has a chapter heading, 'Procedures in Criminal Trails'). I used to collect things like that.

Actually I have a book on Edinburgh that lists Oliver Cromwell's death as 1661 as well. I think it got Charles I's execution wrong too if I'm not mistaken.

Bishop's War thing is going to have to go on hold for a little while though as I've just discovered I need to read practically the entire canons of the fourth Lateran Council by Wednesday.:eek:
 
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