much obliged

Did I or did I not recently witness you insult a poster because their message contained odd-sized fonts? And then you post this? Be ashamed. If that's possible.

My humble opinion, etc. I am not a professional screenwriter.

The rhythmic sound of mental scraping earth.

First sentence, and you blooper yourself with "mental" !!

EXT. NEVADA DESSERT – NIGHT

Desert, stretch of sand. Dessert, pudding. To those who argue that grammar doesn't matter this may seem a trivial little thing. Yes it is trivial -- until the reader chuckles with amusement when he's not supposed to.

A LIGHT in the distance, merely a spec amongst the vastness. The sound intensifies.

Just asking, the Suburban only has one headlight working? No? Then why not say "HEADLIGHTS in the distance..." (Hold on, see next comment below.)

The light manifests into a SUBURBAN, headlights cut into darkness. A bumper hangs like broken teeth.

Wait, stop. I thought I was with whoever's using the shovel, watching the Suburban approaching. But no, you mean the Suburban is parked with its headlights on, illuminating Eddie who's digging the hole, right? Your desire to dispense with camera angles yet keep the SLOW ZOOM in on the Suburban has resulted in confusion. At some point you have to indicate you want the zoom shot, if you want this to make sense.

EDDIE THE ACE, (40s) bloody, his suit tattered, holds himself up by the shovel handle, wheezing badly. He looks like he’s about to fall over.

He’s knee deep in a hole, the width of a coffin.

He summons up one last burst, digs out a scoop, throws the shovel to the ground.

Wheezing terribly now, he climbs out, drops to one knee.

Searches in his pockets… a gun snug in his belt.

He pulls out an inhaler; three blasts; rolls onto his back. Breathing less labored -- color drains to his face.

...The impression you're giving me here is that you're stretching these little actions out to fill pages. My typing fingers itched to shuffle these orphaned sentences into 2 paragraphs. Shrug, each to their own. But now the "filling pages" thing is niggling me. Not an impression I'd want to give to readers.

"color drains to his face" doesn't work -- do you mean color drains from his face? Or his pale face regains color?

A noise. Eddie snaps up.

What noise? Did I hear it too? Eddie's head snaps up?

A ring of light emits a eight-foot halo around the Suburban.

Another vehicle is approaching from behind the Suburban? Or is there another light source, in the middle of the desert? I'm guessing. If not, it's confusing -- surely the ring of light IS the halo, it doesn't EMIT the halo?

Around to one side, he takes out the .38.

I didn't understand "Around to one side" -- of the Suburban? I'm guessing. Eddie creeps around the side of the Suburban. Draws a .38.

EDDIE
Things got convoluted… but
this… this is innocent.

You could argue that I don't have an ear for dialogue, but Eddie's use of "convoluted" sounded odd, and his statement that this is innocent seemed nuts. Especially since he drew the .38 which Dugan maybe ought to question?

Across from Dugan is Eddie, blood caked to his hair, nervously taps a cigarette on a ‘B’ encrusted, lighter.

engraved instead of encrusted? Encrusted means stuck on the outside.

Out of ammo. A cartage SMACKS against the floor. The diner creaks.

Trivial order change, I'd maybe have the last empty cartridges bouncing and pinging on the floor, then silence as the Mexican realizes he's out of ammo? Or do you mean the Mexican ejects the empty magazine and it smacks to the floor?

Dugan crawls over glass, extends his arm and pops open the lighter. Flame.

How about "Flame erupts from the gas pipe, shielding them" or similar plain English?

A flame gurgles up from the oven and fires out like a serpents head on a collision course with the killers.

I was curious as to whether it hits them and whether they react.

Eddie whales. A shoulder relocated.

Eddie wails? Shrug, I'm a foreigner, maybe "whales" is a valid expression.

Hits the breaks, skids an inch from his head.

Eddie's reaction? brakes not breaks

In a nutshell, a couple of things were unclear to me and I'm asking that you insert a few extra words for clarity, but otherwise s'okay.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.

please, can we get one thing clear, i LOOK FORWARD to people pointing out the grammar. please do, so that i can correct it.

I don't think I could have made it more clear that I wasn't talking to you when I said this, so shaddup.

the format is like this. it spreads the data out like this. it reads like a novel format i think? the double spacing.

You'll notice I edited out the extra lines in my quoted example so that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about, you wrote this:

EDDIE THE ACE, (40s) bloody, his suit tattered, holds himself up by the shovel handle, wheezing badly. He looks like he’s about to fall over.

He’s knee deep in a hole, the width of a coffin.

He summons up one last burst, digs out a scoop, throws the shovel to the ground.

Wheezing terribly now, he climbs out, drops to one knee.

Searches in his pockets… a gun snug in his belt.

He pulls out an inhaler; three blasts; rolls onto his back. Breathing less labored -- color drains to his face.

...which I'd type it as:

EDDIE THE ACE, (40s) bloody, his suit tattered, holds himself up by the shovel handle, wheezing badly. He looks like he’s about to fall over. He’s knee deep in a hole, the width of a coffin.

He summons up one last burst, digs out a scoop, throws the shovel to the ground. Wheezing terribly now, he climbs out, drops to one knee. Searches in his pockets… a gun snug in his belt. He pulls out an inhaler; three blasts; rolls onto his back. Breathing less labored -- color drains to his face.

...when I paste the above into screenwriting software there's a saving of 5 or 6 lines with just the two paragraphs. I'm just saying. I don't expect you to get paranoid about it or anything. But if I read a script that's like this all the way through? I'd maybe think the writer was trying to stretch pages so it looks like a longer script.

but the above line, i'm asking and this is open for interpretation. that eddie is only reacting to the circumstances, intended on using the gun. the situation is just so convoluted now the audience is led to beleive one thing...

Sure, but if Eddie puts the gun away, trying to convince Dugan he's not going to shoot him, and Dugan whacks him with the shovel anyway, that tells us something about Dugan. Not important, but seems like it could be a missed opportunity, and a smile moment. Shrug, whatever works best.

Use or ignore as you see fit. Trust the Force.

-Derek
My Web Page - naked women, bestial sex, and whopping big lies.

You use a lot of capitalized words such as:

Another clips CLANKS to the floor. Two clips SLAMMED in. Dugan and Eddie frantic, stop behind a freezer.

A HISSING sound. Gas from a severed line pumps. Five feet away, under debris, the gold lighter shimmers.

Click to expand...

It reads amateurish, kind of like the old Batman TV show: WHAM! WHACK! BOOM!

Usually you only capitalize character names when they first appear: EDDIE THE ICE (40).

Dp gave you some good advice on details. For example, when you say "A noise" -- we need to know what kind of noise. A clank? A boom? A crack? A ding? Visual and audio details like that make all the difference.

Edit: I apologize for the "amateur" comment. It's simply my personal gut feeling. It's not to say it's wrong to cap. Also my bringing up Batman was rather tongue-in-cheek, but I guess it didn't work.

I pretty much agree and disagree with the others to an extent. I agree you break up sentences a bit too much and you CAP a smidge too frequent.

On the other hand... White space is very important in screenplays. I break up sentances all the time for empahsis. I put specific, key actions on a line all by thier lonesome for effect...

And it works for me. (see what I mean?)

As for CAPS, you can use them nowadays for emphasis (not just sounds and such) but be carefull not to over use it. Save the for the IMPORTANT things you want to stand out.

I would say on both counts 9caps and white space) you are not as bad as the Maestro and DP say, but you're getting very, very close-- so watch out.

As for your content. I like it so far. I reads well (althoguh I agree with all of DP's comments) Good job-- very visual.

Be nice Optimus.
Actors read shooting scripts which in many ways differ from the spec script. Also, script style changes almost yearly. Scripts as old as three years don't CAP nearly as much as much as ones writen today. And some people stick with the older rules of style, which is fine too. There's no right or wrong here, only what works for each individual writer.

My point is vig uses CAPS a lot, and when I read it (as an actor) I see emphasis where there shouldn't be. I don't really mind if something needs to be emphasized (I'm used to seeing underlined words, but CAPS would be easier to do).

I was being nice.

Seriously though, why is an actor trying to give pointers on screenwriting format?

As Joe said, you're probably used to reading shooting scripts. However, many professional shooting scripts still cap important things - like sounds, visual effects, and things important for a shot - so that the DP and crew know how to set up the shots. And, as an actor who would more than likely be reading shooting scripts, I'd think you'd be used to caps, since they're used to give camera shots.

In specs, they're used a bit more liberally to create mental imagary and mood. To create the "shot" in the reader's head. Though you've read "plenty of scripts" maybe you just haven't read any good or well-written ones?

The technique of CAPS used the way Vig did has been around for nearly twenty years. Maybe it's been that long since you've read a professional script?

Examples from specs:

This is the opening from Aliens. I'd hardly call James Cameron an amateur.

FADE IN

SOMETIME IN THE FUTURE - SPACE 1

Silent and endless. The stars shine like the love of
God...cold and remote. Against them drifts a tiny chip
of technology.

CLOSER SHOT It is the NARCISSUS, lifeboat of the
ill-fated star-freighter Nostromo. Without interior
or running lights it seems devoid of life. The PING
of a RANGING RADAR grows louder, closer. A shadow
engulfs the Narcissus. Searchlights flash on, playing
over the tiny ship, as a MASSIVE DARK HULL descends
toward it.

Click to expand...

From American Beauty, by Alan Ball (also not an amateur), just a few years ago:

INT. BURNHAM HOUSE - MASTER BEDROOM - CONTINUOUS

We're looking down at a king-sized BED from OVERHEAD:

LESTER BURNHAM lies sleeping amidst expensive bed linens, face down, wearing PAJAMAS. An irritating ALARM CLOCK RINGS. Lester gropes blindly to shut it off.

Click to expand...

From Minority Report:

EXT. THE HOUSE -- MOMENTS LATER

Johnny stands on the front porch, scratching. He walks down his front walk, and bends over to pick up the newspaper.

Carol stands in the doorway, watching him. A SHADOW slides over Johnny, cast from above. The air fills with the piercing WHINE of an engine. Johnny looks up,alarmed.

Click to expand...

vig

same crits as before. stop directing from the script. as for the cap issue - your usage is fine. in point of fact - it's very good

i'd have to say, citing the batman scripts as an example of amateurish writing is contradictory. those stories were very well-structured


zilla

Seriously though, why is an actor trying to give pointers on screenwriting format?

Click to expand...

Because I am the "reader" of scripts. Also, I am a writer and I also write scripts.

Besides, I don't see any rules here saying "only Oscar nominated screenwriters can participate."

If you can't prove your point without talking down to someone, perhaps you shouldn't.

p.s. point taken about CAPS. I can also show you many scripts that do NOT use CAPS.

For example, this is from Three Kings:


or


Gripping writing. Wonderful action. Not one use of CAPS (except for the character names).

I guess it's a style issue. It's more about preference. There's a lot of flexibility in screenplay formats. I prefer the old style where CAPS are kept to the minimum. I personally find CAPS distracting. It stops me.

so we can all agree to disagree. lets move on to more important stuff-- like why Aviator ended so ubruptly as if Scorsese forgot to film the last page of the script.

LOL. I did feel he was rushing the end of the film... But all in all, I think it's outstanding.

let's call it

spirited debate.

lighten up

optimus backed up his argument with evidence from scripts.

My brief response

Vig, the pages read really well. I just breezed over them but my gut reaction was enjoyment and a quick understanding of the situation. I like the changes you made, lengthening out Eddie’s actions and building up the tension of scene more.


I'll try to read it more seriously tomorrow.


D, great comments BUT jewelry is often encrusted with diamonds. It means that they are crushed and then glued heavily onto the piece. I've seen a few lighters with initials made with crushed diamonds.

All CAPS. It's a tricky subject, a fine line between just enough and over the top. And then some people like them some do not. I think for key sound effects they work and some rare actions or vital elements they can be used but not for every blow landed in a fight or gun shot in a military battle and so forth.

I would be very interested in the opinion of an actor. I think it would be a unique perspective and especially helpful for the characterizations.

Now, now, everybody calm down and play nice. We don't need to overload Joe in his first week. Lets break him in easy. Next week we can do his baptism by fire.

[he he he. The new message board thinks I'm ESTEEMED. I like that.]

vig said:

what i take offense to is that each and everyone of those cap words have feelings

Click to expand...

LOL!

Consider yourself backed up. I won't let those cap words of yours feel bullied. Maestro! Apologize to those poor cap words!

OK, really. Caps are one of those some-people-like-'em, some-people-don't issues. I don't like 'em, but just because it distracts me when I'm reading. I know they have their purposes for the crew. In other words, what vig did there wasn't wrong.

Some of the responses after that got a little pissy. Please just remember that the main rule of this forum is "respect your fellow writers." It *is* possible to tell someone he/she is wrong without being insulting. Thanks.

Deleted Posts.

FYI...

I've deleted all the posts that are way off topic and/or considered a personal attack. Please keep to the rules established for this forum.

Keep in mind that comments are always appreciated, but please phrase them as personal opinion/taste and not fact. Many "so called" screenwriting rules have been broken from time to time with success. Very few things are set in stone in this industry.

Also, keep things on topic, which in this case is a critique on Vig's work.

Thanks

Joe

OK, let's get back on topic. I'm critiquing this as a reader (actor and independent filmmaker) as well as a writer. Of course, it's only my personal opinion.


Blackmailed by the ruthless bookie he collects for, a Scottish fugitive must find, then bring back his con man friend to his execution or face a murder rap in his native land.


The logline is fine. I do wonder what kind of "fugitive" he is.


The rhythmic sound of metal scraping earth.

I like that you're cueing the sound first on BLACK.


FADE IN:

EXT. NEVADA DESERT – NIGHT

A LIGHT in the distance, merely a spec amongst the vastness. The [scraping] sound intensifies.

I would repeat the "scraping sound" just to make it clear.

The light gets CLOSER. The SOUND more distinct, shovel to earth, again and again.

Here's when I agree with DP.. the spec of light should turn into two headlights. I'd probably not CAP "sound." CLOSER is your emphasis here.

The light manifests into a SUBURBAN, headlights cut into darkness. A bumper hangs like broken teeth.

In the open back hatch, TWO BODIES. One a bloody mess, gagged, lifeless.

The other, DUGAN ROACH, (25) his chest heaves ever so slightly. Fingers twitch. Eyes pop open.

These are good visuals. Good job.

EXT. FRONT OF SURBURBAN – SAME

This scene heading is a little off. Maybe "SIDE OF A ROAD" or "THE DESERT"? "Front of the SUBURBAN" could go in the narrative. When I read "Front of SUBURBAN" I visualize Eddie sitting in the driver's seat (or at least the passenger's seat), even though it is an EXT. shot.

EDDIE THE ACE, (40s) bloody, his suit tattered, holds himself up by the shovel handle, wheezing badly. He looks like he’s about to fall over.

He’s knee deep in a hole, the width of a coffin.

This is good. Visual and telling. By this point, the audience already has some idea what's to come. They're hooked.

He summons up one last burst, digs out a scoop, throws the shovel to the ground.

Wheezing terribly now, he climbs out, drops to one knee.

Searches in his pockets… a gun snug in his belt.

Personally I favor one single paragraph of narration instead of short paragraphs. It reads a little choppy to me.

He pulls out an inhaler; three blasts; rolls onto his back. Breathing less labored -- color drains to his face.

Grammar: semicolons are misused here.

His focus on the moonless sky. Stars. The galaxy.

A noise. Eddie snaps up.

What noise? Be specific here, like the one you had before (metal scraping earth).

Another blast from his inhaler. On his feet. A ring of light emits a[n] eight-foot halo around the Suburban.

I'm trying to visualize an eight-foot halo. What does that mean? Did the Suburban stop?

EXT. BACK OF SURBURBAN

ONE BODY. Eddie snaps his head one way, then the other.

What happened to the other body? There were two.

EDDIE
Dugan buddy… this isn’t
what it looks like. Dugan.

The second "Dugan" seems unncessary.

Around to one side, he takes out a .38. More cautious with each step.

"A" instead of "The" -- you haven't shown us the .38 until now.

EDDIE
Things got convoluted… but
this… this is innocent.

The stillness is maddening.

This is prose. Maybe something like "A dead silence. Stillness."

EDDIE
Dugan Roach.

A CRACKLE. Eddie wheels into the business end of a shovel.


EXT. DINER PARKING LOT – NIGHT

The Suburban hogs two spots in this deserted lot.

A sign hangs from the building in red neon: LAST STOP DINER: In flickering green below: FREE COFFEE FOR LOSERS.

INT. LAST STOP DINER

In a corner booth sits Dugan, gaunt and sinewy, with distant blue eyes.

DUGAN
You were digging a hole Eddie.
What am I supposed to think.

A good twist.

Across from Dugan is Eddie, blood caked to his hair, nervously taps a cigarette on a ‘B’ encrusted, lighter.

EDDIE
How about you’re supposed to
be my friend. You’re supposed
to say no when a psycho asks
you to kill your friend.

DUGAN
Horseshit. You burned him.

EDDIE
Look at the logistics of this.
You punched the Gourds ticket,
puts you better than dead. I
sink. You’re anchored to me.

DUGAN
The Gourd was a mistake.

EDDIE
So was the Titanic, but what
is-is. And you think bringing
me back will change that?
Nothing changes that.

Eddie snaps open the lighter, the flame dances to life.

A PLUME of orange. Then the concussion of the EXPLOSION blows out the window. Like rag-dolls Eddie and Dugan slam to the ground.

The Suburban in flames, roof blown completely off. Black thick smoke bellows skyward.

Dugan gets his wits quickly, Eddie’s still dazed. The .38 under a chair. You could see Dugan’s gears working….

… he moves for it… a hail of machine gun fire rips the outside of the diner apart ricocheting off the floor.

Instead Dugan grabs Eddie by the collar and pulls him in the other direction, behind a counter.

A pony tailed MEXICAN (40s) with prison tats running up his neck, steps through the space spitting lead –

Out of ammo. A cartage SMACKS against the floor. The diner creaks.

The COOK and WAITRESS break for it -- from another direction they’re cut down in a torrent of bullets.

I'm not sure if they would break for it even if the assailant is out of ammo momentarily. Most people would lay low. It also feels a little gratuitous.

Another clips CLANKS to the floor. Two clips SLAMMED in. Dugan and Eddie frantic, stop behind a freezer.

Eddie and Dugan's reactions are more natural.

A HISSING sound. Gas from a severed line pumps. Five feet away, under debris, the gold lighter shimmers.

Dugan crawls over glass, extends his arm and pops open the lighter. Flame.

More machine gun fire. ullets whistle, ping, shatter.

Dugan duck-walks to the back -- the second KILLER, tosses away a table like balsa wood.

What second killer? Where did he come from? We only saw the Mexican before.

The tip of his machine gun, smoking.

A sudden calm. HISSING.

A flame gurgles up from the oven and fires out like a serpents head on a collision course with the killers.

A pipe is leaking gas... if Dugan flick the lighter, wouldn't the whole place blow? Or a fire? How did the flame manage to head directly toward the killers? It seems a little implausible here.

I do like the foreshadow of the lighter.

EXT.PARKING LOT

WHEN? Probably should be -- CONTINUOUS. Give us some concept of time frame.

Another explosion blows Eddie to a crumpled mess, his arm folds into itself, dislocated. Dugan’s up.

"Blows Eddie to a crumpled mess" makes me think Eddie is blown up to pieces. Dead. I think you meant he's tossed on the side? Did the explosion blow Eddie OUT to the Parking Lot? Since it's an exterior shot. If so, Eddie is most likely to be dead...

EDDIE
My arm. ****.

If he's a crumpled mess, I doubt he would be saying that. It almost feels like he shouldn't be saying anything -- we know he's f***ed and his arm's gone...

The hood of a car sticks out behind a dumpster.

DUGAN
Let’s go. Let’s go.

EDDIE
My arms a pretzel. **** you.

Again, not sure about this dialogue.

Dugan checks Eddie’s arm; then slams it to the pavement. Eddie whales. A shoulder relocated.

Eddie "wails." Semicolon should be comma.

Dugan runs for the car. An old school purple CADDY, license plate: ‘COOL’. The keys are in the ignition.

"The car" throws me, since I haven't seen the car yet. Just say "Dugan runs for an old-school CADDY..." Also, show him getting in the car before telling me about the keys.

The old "keys in ignition" cliche. Unless we know at that point that the car belongs to the killers....

Dugan plows around the dumpster, right at Eddie.

Hits the breaks, skids an inch from his head.

"Brakes." The action here is a little disjointed. I can see how it would be "cut" (in editing) this way. But as narrative, I'ma little lost.

EDDIE
You’re crazy. **** you.
**** you.

I'm not sure why he keeps saying **** you. He should be in pain and moaning...


Out of the car he slams a right to Eddie’s face. BLACK

Hmmmm...

EXT. ARIZONA DESSERT - DAY

The sun fights its way over the mountain. The purple Caddy rolls down the empty stretch of road. [/QUOTE]


So far so good. I think you have some good action here, but needs to show a little more details. The dialogue needs some work. At this point, I'm not sure if I get it yet -- there's a body, apparently Eddie burns it. Just as we think Dugan is going to be buried, too, we see them having dinner... the dialogue doesn't really tell me much. Then two killers come in, blow up the Suburban and machine-gun the diner... then Dugan gets away by blowing up the killers and the diner..... then apparently (don't know yet), he's running over Eddie (or maybe not -- it's suspense, I suppose) At this point in the script, I only have a slight idea of what's between Dugan and Eddie, but I can wait for the story to unfold.

(by the way, who was driving the Suburban? If Dugan was in the back, barely breathing, and Eddie was out digging a hole... oh, wait, I get it Eddie was the one driving.)

The first scene makes me think the Suburban was traveling toward the camera. Now I see that the camera is moving toward a stopped SUBURBAN... Eddie was driving it, with Dugan and the other body in the back. And now Eddie was digging a hole...

I think it'll work in concept, but as written, it's somewhat confusing. It took me two or three reads to get it. I think you need to clarify some of your scenes so that it's more straight forward to understand. Right now, it seems to me that you're more concerned about how the shots are established and how it would be directed and edited, than actually telling me what the story is about.