Something about this thread just makes me compulsively want to reply to it, even though it isn't
Come to Pete For Therapy . Hm.
LOL, the last thing I expected was to be told "Don't worry about it."
So many writing problems are caused by over-thinking when you can solve them by writing. In writing, you don't need to puff up your chest and march head-on at the problem. It's one of the few places in life where you can actually serve yourself better by running away. See a problem in Chapter 2? Quick, write your way through to the end of the book! I bet when you come back and find a problem, it will not seem so large, so impossible, and sometimes...it won't even be the problem you were looking for.
lfraser - 'using simple language deftly' - I'm going to tuck that phrase away in a safe place and remember it. Thanks.
It's a very wise phrase and, I think, that if you look through a great deal of literature, you can find that this is carried out well. My favorite example is John Steinbeck. His books are beautiful and poetic and languid and...yet...if you get down into the actual mechanical bits of it, you find that he uses very simple sentence structure and repetition of words to great effect. He writes extremely simply. But if you're just reading it, you don't spot that. Unless I look closely at the parts, John Steinbeck reads like Jack London or Rudyard Kipling (all three men make me feel like I'm a six year old writing in crayon).
sneakers145 - excellent point about remembering to let readers fill in the blanks. I probably over stage-direct at times.
Another one of my favorite examples that I've used elsewhere on these forums. I was discussing description of the environment when I made use of it, but I think that it fills in here too. It is this:
At the beginning of a stage play, someone does not come out and make the audience pay attention to the set pieces, discuss how long they took to build, talk about what shades of red they used, what shades of green, discuss how they have fixed the set pieces to wheels for easy set changing, and so on. No, the lights go down, the curtain comes up, you get quiet, people come onto the stage...and a story happens. (Or, if it's your local college character study, then shit happens). It's an important thing to carry over to your fiction. I try my hardest.
PeeDee - You're telling me not to worry about it, and then you effortlessly use a wonderful simile about the carpet that illustrates your point perfectly.
THAT'S what
I want to do! I love your example about the black clouds moving in. OK - I do take your point and it was very well made. Thank you.
The example about the black clouds moving in is a phrase that I came up with when I was ten years old. I was hugely proud of it, and I used it casually in conversation, because I was trying to emphasise that I Was A Very Important Writer. My mom congratulated me on the creative phrase and I, very proud, began to talk like that around other people because I was very impressed.
A lot of adults complimented me to my mother, saying that I was well spoken. But increasingly, I was more and more uncomfortable. This wasn't how I talked and I recognized the dishonesty of it even then. It's like wearing fake glasses to school because you want to look like one of the smart kids.
I adore comparisons -- such as the carpet reference -- because I can explain to you what I mean and the feeling I'm trying to convey easier than I can just by spelling it out. I always have been able to. If you ever listen to me argue (which I don't do often, publically or on these forums) you would note that I frequently make comparisons to support my point.
My point here is twofold. First, I try to speak plainly and simply, because if I speak long and languid and poetically...it's boring. It's like talking to someone who can only speak in press releases and political speeches.
Second, comparisons are wonderful ways of connecting an obscure meaning with an obvious meaning and thus sharing a feeling between the two. But too many of them wind up sharing too many feelings without ever explaining anything. And I can't explain it better than that without a comparison, which I'm not going to use.
Wraith - wonderful point about trying to get this type of stuff into first drafts. You're SO right - I've spent lots of time trying to come up with just the right phrase during the first draft, and all that does is slow or stop the flow. No problem in tagging my cliches to fix later! Thanks!
Wraith is absolutely right: When in the first draft, run away from your problems. Focus on writing forward. Some writers fix their problems and do their work in the first draft. I do. But the problem is, when you (a general "you") hear about it, perhaps it inclines you to try and do that too. Maybe it makes it a bit lazy and dishonest to do your better work in your second draft, your third draft. You know? The problem is, it's not dishonest, it's just how different writers work. There are pros and cons. For example, if I don't do my best work in the first draft and produce something that's polished...then I am much more paralyzed in the second draft.
On the head-hopping thing, you really think it can work? Wow, I thought it was the hell of writerdom. I'm terrible at seeing techniques in my fav books so I don't know if I ever saw it done right, but what you're saying gives me new hope. I try hard to avoid it, but there's one scene where i like it and i felt so guilty because of that. Also, one question - because the limit between 3rd limited and omniscient is a bit fuzzy for me - in 3rd limited can you show something the character can't see/doesn't necessarily notice? Because otherwise it'd be sort of like 1st person. I'm so clueless.
The thing about "writerdom" is its a lot of nonsense. Maybe I'll catch flak for this, but I really like this thread and I'm being inordinately honest. Listen: Anything you can make work....is fine, and works.
BUT...as someone once said "Before you can be properly eccentric, you must know the rules." And that's true. Just because Charles de Lint can make head-hopping work doesn't mean it's a good idea, doesn't mean it won't be confusing for everyone else. It's like jumping right into sword swallowing without learning the throat techniques. It's a bad idea. (ALthough on the writing end, it's less bloody).
That's the greatest difficulty I'm having at the moment. It's just too darned easy to use verbal puffery when writing a fantasy.
It is. It really is. Part of the reason is, if you've read other fantasy works, it infuses so much of it. Plus, you can't use strictly modern language. Your fantasy novel can't sound like it was written by a Boston gangster...
...or can it? And why not? True, you can't always use the most modern of terminology, but that's no reason for every line to sound like a bad translation of Shakespeare.
I think that it would be wonderful to read a fantasy novel, as if written by John Steinbeck. and what about the language of Rudyard Kipling, whom I already mentioned? Beautiful stuff, but not complex and fluffy. Read Tolkien closely and you find that he really uses a simple language too. So often, they were using the language they were speaking. The problem comes when WE, a hundred years later, try to use the language they were speaking. It's as awkward as someone who barely speaks English writing an english novel. It may read fine, but it reads stiff.
I'm still at the point where my writing is influenced by what I'm reading -- not consciously of course, but it happens. I can tell which authors I was reading when I wrote certain portions of my WIP. That being the case, and since it seems unavoidable, I made a conscious decision to read George Martin while I'm writing my male character so that the writing comes out clear and simple. Since the chapter I'm writing right now is the very first one in the WIP, I'm hoping that when I'm editing (some time around the year 2009 at the rate I'm going) I'll pick up on that simplicity right from the start and apply it to the entire...novel (I always hesitate to use that word to describe my WIP. It seems so presumptuous.)
I should add that seeing the influence of other writers in my work is not a bad thing. It means I'm learning. The problem is consistency.
Don't worry about the consistency, or the influence. They're both something that every writer deals with. I don't think there's a need to deal with it. Eventually, it all blends together into the whacky stew that eventually settles into your own writing style. There's nothing you can do about it...but you can be conscious about it.
When writing your male fantasy character, why not read Ernest Hemingway? See if he starts to sound like someone out of
Farewell to Arms. Why not read Raymond Chandler? Sure, you're going to come out influenced, but you can steer that your own way.
And mostly, don't worry about it. I think that applies to so much writing: Don't worry about it, just keep going forward. The problems will mend themselves magically behind you. Does that seem implausible? Sure. But it's true, as far as it goes.
