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Go with the flow, or buck the tide...?
- Thread starter Barbarique
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I would say most people like to think of themselves as individuals - whether that's true or not. No one likes to think of themselves as a conformist, as that implies lacking the ability to think for themselves.
That said, it's an accusation levelled at me many a time that I like to cause trouble or if someone tells me I can't do something, I spend all my energy figuring out a way to do it just to prove them wrong.
So I guess that makes me contrary, rather than individualistic, as my behaviour is still predictable; I just like to annoy people.
That said, it's an accusation levelled at me many a time that I like to cause trouble or if someone tells me I can't do something, I spend all my energy figuring out a way to do it just to prove them wrong.
So I guess that makes me contrary, rather than individualistic, as my behaviour is still predictable; I just like to annoy people.
Well, I think one either bucks a trend, or goes against the tide but, nitpicking aside, I'm a conformist, externally. I was raised not to make a fuss, but accept my lot in life.
In my creative work, I like to think, I create unique stories with a unique perspective. Only I have ever had my own experiences, which make me who I am, therefore, only I can write my stories.
In my creative work, I like to think, I create unique stories with a unique perspective. Only I have ever had my own experiences, which make me who I am, therefore, only I can write my stories.
Neither. I'm practically minded.
Is it going to be to my advantage to go with the flow? Or am I going to be disgusted with myself for the rest of my life if I don't stand up for what I believe in, in this case? Is this an essential part of my being that I really care about, or something stupid like a hamburger that's been cooked wrong?
What are the pros and cons? Is being stubborn going to cost me a book deal? An agent? A booksigning? Which is most important to me? Which am I willing to risk?
How good is the publisher, the agent, the booksigning? Do I see this being a long term relationship, or is it just a platform to help raise me to the next level?
Do I like these people? Is this going to effect me on a personal level, or is it a simply professional relationship?
How much effect will this decision have on my future?
What are my principles on this matter?
When someone starts a sentence with 'You should...' my immediate response is 'Why? Persuade me.'
If they can't, too bad. Not worth my time.
Also, I think the labels 'individualist' and 'conformist' are just that - labels. Everybody should be who they are, and not strive to be like everyone else or worse, strive to be a complete individual. Either way, you're selling yourself short.
Is it going to be to my advantage to go with the flow? Or am I going to be disgusted with myself for the rest of my life if I don't stand up for what I believe in, in this case? Is this an essential part of my being that I really care about, or something stupid like a hamburger that's been cooked wrong?
What are the pros and cons? Is being stubborn going to cost me a book deal? An agent? A booksigning? Which is most important to me? Which am I willing to risk?
How good is the publisher, the agent, the booksigning? Do I see this being a long term relationship, or is it just a platform to help raise me to the next level?
Do I like these people? Is this going to effect me on a personal level, or is it a simply professional relationship?
How much effect will this decision have on my future?
What are my principles on this matter?
When someone starts a sentence with 'You should...' my immediate response is 'Why? Persuade me.'
If they can't, too bad. Not worth my time.
Also, I think the labels 'individualist' and 'conformist' are just that - labels. Everybody should be who they are, and not strive to be like everyone else or worse, strive to be a complete individual. Either way, you're selling yourself short.
I guess I'm more of the "says who?" It also depends on the situation. When someone who has no right to boss me around tells me to do something, I usually do the opposite.
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If someone says, "You should," I listen. Whether or not I take the advice depends on many things.
I definitely don't "buck the tide" just because I have a desire to be individual. I actually wish I could conform because my views differ so greatly from my family's and most of my friends', and I've always been set apart. I don't try to make a fuss and prove I'm the one who broke the mold, and I don't do what everyone else is doing just to be part of a group.
I definitely don't "buck the tide" just because I have a desire to be individual. I actually wish I could conform because my views differ so greatly from my family's and most of my friends', and I've always been set apart. I don't try to make a fuss and prove I'm the one who broke the mold, and I don't do what everyone else is doing just to be part of a group.
I don't care for the terms assigned. There is a lot of gray area between individualist and conformist. To me they are opposite ends of a continuum. People can fall anywhere on the spectrum between conformist and individualist, and where they fall on that spectrum varies with the situation, topic, and who presents them with information or directives.
and then principles of social judgment theory come into play. Social judgment theory.
It's just not that simple.
sometimes I'm a conformist - but only when it falls within my latitude of acceptance.
sometimes I'm an individualist - depends on the consequences vs. rewards.
and then principles of social judgment theory come into play. Social judgment theory.
It's just not that simple.
sometimes I'm a conformist - but only when it falls within my latitude of acceptance.
sometimes I'm an individualist - depends on the consequences vs. rewards.
Buck the tide, baby! If I'm not pissing someone off, I'm doing something wrong.
Your very existence pisses me off.
So...Wishy-washy?
Just kidding. I am myself a tide-bucker. (The use of which continues my expansion of peculiar English expressions)
This might have something to do with my recent and sudden lack of employment. (Which I figures will last until my newspaper loses about two games in the Periodista League and they come crawling back. Nobody remembers that I won a Silva Award in 2003, but nobody forgets I hit over .500 and have 40% more RBI's than whoever's in second place)
meh, I don't consider it wishy-washy, I consider that I'd rather not title myself and prefer to deal with each situation as it arises. I don't buck the tide at work because I want to keep my job. I don't believe that makes me a conformist though in the negative sense of the word, I believe it makes me sensible of keeping my job. The level of passion I feel about something determines my willingness to buck the tide and I don't believe that makes me an individualist. I believe it makes me passionate about things that are important to me and demonstrates a conviction I may hold.
I said from the beginning, I dont' care for the titles. I conformed to them for the purpose of the exercise.
ooh, bad Stew - you conformist you.
:shrug:
oh, did I mention Social Exchange Theory?
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Depends on who says 'You should' and how they say it. If it is somebody who I think knows a lot of what he is talking about, and isn't condescending, there is a good chance I'll listen. If not, I will probably smile and ignore him. I guess I tend towards passive-aggressive when it comes to responding to people or institutions I don't respect; I hate making any kinds of public fuss, and I hate arguing, especially with persons who do it aggressively.
In other words, I'm basically a coward. I pretend to go with the flow when somebody is looking. I buck the tide pretty often when I nobody is.
In other words, I'm basically a coward. I pretend to go with the flow when somebody is looking. I buck the tide pretty often when I nobody is.
Says who
I try to do the smart thing. I don't do anything just because someone says I should, but I don't spend much time cutting off my nose to spite my face, either. Both are dumb.
I try to analyze why someone says "You should or you shouldn't." I look at the facts, I look at how experts do whatever it is, and I decide whether it will work for me.
I am not, for example, going to put square tires on my car because someone says I should use round ones.
And I'm not going to single space my manuscripts just because someone tells me I have to double-space them.
There's a big difference between being a conformist, and doing dumb things in order to avoid being called a conformist.
I try to do the smart thing. I don't do anything just because someone says I should, but I don't spend much time cutting off my nose to spite my face, either. Both are dumb.
I try to analyze why someone says "You should or you shouldn't." I look at the facts, I look at how experts do whatever it is, and I decide whether it will work for me.
I am not, for example, going to put square tires on my car because someone says I should use round ones.
And I'm not going to single space my manuscripts just because someone tells me I have to double-space them.
There's a big difference between being a conformist, and doing dumb things in order to avoid being called a conformist.
It all depends, man. Some things I really don't care about. I'll do what you tell me to do, fine. But if I don't respect the person who's ordering me around...I'll gripe about it. Mature, huh? The only person whose orders I don't grumble about are my best friend's. I don't know why, I just do everything she even kind of suggests.
We learned about conformity in English last year while studying transcendentalism, and it also appeared in my A.P. U.S. History class.
I think nonconformity is an important thing to have; with out it there wouldn’t be change, our way of looking at things wouldn’t evolve. For example (in U.S. History, only because that’s the class I was in when we discussed it.) Blacks would still be slaves, Women wouldn’t have the same rights as men, and Native Americans would still be persecuted. If people back then hadn’t ‘bucked against the tide’ things we look back at today, as a blemish in history, may never have changed.
Change, however, is a two way street. It can bring both good, and bad. That is something people need to remember; and who knows, the best thing to do may be to conform depending on each, individual, situation.
So, while I say I’m an individualist. I’m not going to turn something down because everyone else is doing it. If a new type of music pops up, that I like, or a new artist, I’m not going to say I hate them because everyone likes them. If I’m at a party, and I’m asked to do drugs, or something of that sort, it’s always a no. I consider myself individualist when having to pick from the two, but I’m not always going to be. Does that make sense?
I think nonconformity is an important thing to have; with out it there wouldn’t be change, our way of looking at things wouldn’t evolve. For example (in U.S. History, only because that’s the class I was in when we discussed it.) Blacks would still be slaves, Women wouldn’t have the same rights as men, and Native Americans would still be persecuted. If people back then hadn’t ‘bucked against the tide’ things we look back at today, as a blemish in history, may never have changed.
Change, however, is a two way street. It can bring both good, and bad. That is something people need to remember; and who knows, the best thing to do may be to conform depending on each, individual, situation.
So, while I say I’m an individualist. I’m not going to turn something down because everyone else is doing it. If a new type of music pops up, that I like, or a new artist, I’m not going to say I hate them because everyone likes them. If I’m at a party, and I’m asked to do drugs, or something of that sort, it’s always a no. I consider myself individualist when having to pick from the two, but I’m not always going to be. Does that make sense?
I think it's most interesting to observe how conformists become very adept at rationalizing away all the indicators that they are conforming.
I would additionally posit that practicing knee-jerk reactive contrarianism does not make one an individualist.
I think it's rude and condescending to say that, doubly so when you add a smiley to it, like its a cute observation.
If you posted the thread to make yourself feel better for being an individualist (by whatever definition you gave it), fine. You don't have to step on people who feel differently than you do by claiming their explanations are "adept rationalizations" for their (obviously inferior)conformist behavior.
Just speaking as I find.
I don't rattle easily.
Please carry on with your delightful thread.
eta: there are negative connotations that come with the title you gave "conformist" and there are positive ones of the title "individualist".
"look how the conformists rationalize away the indicators that they are conforming?" doesn't strike you as condescending?
I don't rattle easily.
Please carry on with your delightful thread.
eta: there are negative connotations that come with the title you gave "conformist" and there are positive ones of the title "individualist".
"look how the conformists rationalize away the indicators that they are conforming?" doesn't strike you as condescending?
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Stew has it right there. You'd already decided where you wanted this conversation to go long before you hit the button to post the thread.
And I am one to not conform because I have different ideas. Often way different than most people I am around. However, that doesn't stop me from falling in line with people when they are doing what I agree and what I consider the smart thing. So, sometimes I conform.
Stew also has it right that this is not one side black and the other side white. There is a large variety in the shades that this topic carry. You just can't define it that simply.
Yes. Let's create yet another way to devise an either-or false dichotomy to pidgeon hole ourselves so some of us can come off as cool and superior to others in an anonymous web situation. Why not just ask the population who's a cool trend setter and who's an anal tit-sucker? And I'm sure, with a little tweaking, we can work it out so one lines up well with republicans and the other with democrats.
I never said that you said one was good and the other bad. I said the words carry connotations.
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