A question

If you want to survive in this business, you'd better learn to self-edit.

Best way, in my opinion, to learn is to critique/edit other writers -- after you've read through tons of material and critiques other writers have done.

Go to SYW here, and start reading. Pick your genre first, if you like, but read other genres as well. Read the material presented, read the critiques (there are some very good critters here), think about what you're reading.

Common problems among aspiring writers become obvious once you've read enough. Telling rather than showing. POV mistakes. Tangled sentences. Really basic stuff like putting the comma inside the end quotes in dialogue when there's a tag.

If you always have other people edit your work, you'll never learn to do it yourself. Which means you'll lack a skill vitally necessary not only to getting published but to carving out a career as a writer.

Put in the time to learn. We all did. We all had to.

Self-editing is tedious at best, but you end up learning more about your work and your writing by doing it. I hate it, but I do it.

Conny1109 said:

If I'm successful in finding an agent (allow me to dream) and the book gets published, the publishing house does the editing.

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Um, I don't think so. I think you'll be told to edit your own work based on changes and suggestions. A copy-editor will eventually check for errors and flow.

You might want to get a copy of [SIZE=-1]Self-Editing for Fiction Writers by Renni Browne and Dave King.[/SIZE]

Everyone here is right. Once the rough draft is complete, go back and read it out loud to yourself in a quiet room where you can concentrate and put in the time. Use a red pen and make your changes right on the paper. No one is going to see this except for you so it doesn't matter if it looks messy, as long as you can read it. Check for holes in your story. Make sure you use the same names throughout the story and all your information is correct if you are using real information like true events in history.

When your changes are done, rewrite the whole thing, putting in those changes. If you used a computer and have it saved, add those changes directly to the piece you have saved to save your time. Time is a very precious thing when you're a writer. Once done, do this cycle again until it is as perfect as you can make, then you can send it in. The less work an editor has to do the better. If there are too many mistakes, the publisher could turn you down based on that fact so polish it up the best you can. Also check spelling and gramar, using the right to, too, or two (or other words with different spellings). It does take a while to write a book but don't rush it. Work on your own speed in your own available time. Set goals and strive to meet them as much as possible.

Amber

Actually, I hire somebody to edit my galleys for me. I find other people catch stuff I miss. (I tried editing one of my books myself and the results were less than pleasing....) For me it's worth the $400 to have some peace of mind that my book will be clean.

(I'm a really lousy self-editor....)

Conny1109 said:

Then again, if professionally edited, it might catch the eye of an agent/publisher.

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A professionally edited manuscript won't catch anyone's eye. Your manuscript is expected to be clean and free of errors in grammar, punctuation, sentence structure, and formatting. If it's not, don't submit it.

What will catch the eye of an agent is an original story idea with compelling, fully developed characters.

As advised by others here, part of the writing process is self-editing. Just like outlining, drafting, and rewriting, it comes with the job. Good luck.

Other than for a fresh pair of eyes to catch mistakes I might miss, I can't imagine letting someone else edit my work, much less paying them to do so. Editing is a big part of the process, and something I enjoy.

There's a whole board here devoted to finding beta readers/mentors.


Just from my first (maybe only?) crit from my WIP I've learned so much that I can be aware of now AS I write a story. It can be really useful. Sure I can self-edit okay...but there's nothing wrong with wanting a fresh perspective on your writing.

johnzakour said:

Actually, I hire somebody to edit my galleys for me. I find other people catch stuff I miss. (I tried editing one of my books myself and the results were less than pleasing....) For me it's worth the $400 to have some peace of mind that my book will be clean.

(I'm a really lousy self-editor....)

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Just a tiny question here ... why the galleys? Why not the copy-edited draft? I've been told I get charged for changes to the galleys ....

(I've had just a super copyeditor at the publisher, so I haven't felt tempted to try for a freelancer.)

1) get the book "Painless Grammar". I am actually not confused by the grammar stuff the way it presents itself.

2) read crits done by others for others. Take notes

3) learn to crit others.

Even if you do not crit others and just study how other people crit, you can learn a lot about looking at your own work from a editor's perspective by reading crits other people get.

If you want to stay in this business (says the novice, unpublished writer) you MUST be able to self-edit. Learn how to edit your own work and save yourself $450.00.

One of the reasons self-editing is so important is that it lets you see the strengths and weaknesses of your own writing.

Conny1109 said:

If I'm successful in finding an agent (allow me to dream) and the book gets published, the publishing house does the editing.

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Sorry, time to wake up from that dream... Publishers don't do anything more than "line editing," which is just correcting minor spelling and grammatical errors. If your book needs serious editing, they'll just reject it (as will agents).

There are too many good writers out there producing finished, publishable books for publishers to waste their time with unfinished works.

You have to learn to edit your own work, because the process of editing teaches you to write better. There are many good books on self-editing, but don't limit yourself to editing.

The best book I know on writing is Stein on Writing, by Sol Stein. I can't recommend it highly enough.

Hi Conny

As I think you've probably guessed by the majority of responses here, don't pay for "professional editing."

Apart from the fact that learning to self edit helps your writing, learning to crit others works also helps your writing. And it's rewarding - and you can buy some cool clothes and stuff with $450 bucks rather than someone else buying those clothes with your money!

Honestly, I've picked up heaps of good advise from people on the SYW forum and from other critique sites around.

Best points: - Always read your stuff out loud. Where you stumble or have to pause - so will your readers.

Always find knowledgable strangers to freely give your work the once over. Friends are good for boosting ego's. Critique groups will thicken your skin and improve your writing - two things we all need.

Money should flow to the writer/author - never from them. Don't pay publishers/agents/editing companies. (Never pay entrance fees for competitions either but that's something else)

Hope this helps.

BT

johnzakour said:

Actually, I hire somebody to edit my galleys for me. I find other people catch stuff I miss. (I tried editing one of my books myself and the results were less than pleasing....) For me it's worth the $400 to have some peace of mind that my book will be clean.

(I'm a really lousy self-editor....)

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At galleys, I understand. By that point, you've seen the material so often you wouldn't see a typo if it was jumping up and down and yelling at you on the page. When it's still in manuscript form and you're preparing to send it to agents or publishers, I'd still do it myself.

Set it aside for awhile. Really. Let it go cold in your mind. Then you can return to it with the benefit of some distance. Try reading it aloud. Look for cohesiveness, logical flow, and plot holes. Run spell check. It might take awhile, but it's a relatively easy way to make sure your words are spelled properly. You have to read for yourself to determine if they're the right word.

The method I use?

1. hard copy.
2. red pencil.
3. grammar book.
4. lots of coffee.

Good luck!

Namatu said:

At galleys, I understand. By that point, you've seen the material so often you wouldn't see a typo if it was jumping up and down and yelling at you on the page. .

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Ah. And that answers the question I had. The final galley proof would be for those last typos ...

Conny1109 said:

If I'm successful in finding an agent (allow me to dream) and the book gets published, the publishing house does the editing.

Click to expand...

Publishers don't do anything more than "line editing," which is just correcting minor spelling and grammatical errors. If your book needs serious editing, they'll just reject it (as will agents).

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Neither of these is entirely true. I've seen books acquired and then completely rewritten by the publishers. It's also quite usual (in my experience) for editors and authors to work together on structural editing and rewrites to the extent that they are needed. What the publisher is going to have to decide when they see the MS is how much work it requires and whether it is worth their while.

Key point:

Torgo said:

whether it is worth their while.

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Don't rely on editors and publishers to polish your manuscript. Get it as good as you can, work with them to improve upon it, but never expect them to do it for you because the cost-benefit of publishing your book then impacts their operating income and cuts into revenue.