A little advice

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

Hello. I'd just like to say that I know what I write is down to me, my decision etc however!!!

This chapter i'm writing at the moment, is a big one. I'm killing someone off, someone who has to die and is a bad man. He is going to be murdered, now i'm just wondering what your opinions are on gruesome deaths. I could just have him stabbed and job done, he's dead or I could make it a bit horrific and shocking. Of course without knowing the story so far, it's probably harder to make a judgment but i'm fancying a bit of a shocking kill, I just wondered on people's opinions...and also putting off writing it

Thanks for reading. Andy

CaroGirl · Aug 9, 2007

If you think it should be brutal, write it the way you want and then see if it works with the rest of the story. If it doesn't work, rewrite it another way. Try, try again!

Willowmound · Aug 9, 2007

citizen, quit stalling. Pick one!

You know which one you want to go with. No, you do. Go with that one.

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

I prefer brutal deaths.

One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger.

Another of my chars is chased down by her deranged brother, raped, and skewered on a pike.

It really depends on the character dying, and what they deserve.

So, as you said, up to you.

reenkam · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger.

Another of my chars is chased down by her deranged brother, raped, and skewered on a pike.

and I thought the deaths I wrote about where bad...mine could be shown on disney in comparison! (well, maybe not...)

but yes, i think you should go with the brutal.

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I prefer brutal deaths.

One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger.

Another of my chars is chased down by her deranged brother, raped, and skewered on a pike.

It really depends on the character dying, and what they deserve. So, as you said, up to you.

Crikey! Well I don't think he deserves something like that but I think brutality is the way forward

LJ Hall · Aug 9, 2007

I'd go with whatever fits the style of the novel. If it's not a horror or action or suspense, a brutal, graphic murder might feel out of place.

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

citizen_erased said:
Crikey! Well I don't think he deserves something like that but I think brutality is the way forward

Well, there you have it.

Brutality it is.

And I don't believe anyone deserves the deaths I described, but when you have a deranged psychokiller in the protags' family, you might as well use him to his full potential. As a note, even my main antagonist was shocked and appalled by the lengths his lackey (read grandson) had gone to.

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
Well, there you have it. Brutality it is.

I think a brutal death is my killer making a statement, so that's what i'll go for.

JasonChirevas · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I prefer brutal deaths.

One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger.

Another of my chars is chased down by her deranged brother, raped, and skewered on a pike.

It really depends on the character dying, and what they deserve. So, as you said, up to you.

Wow, that's a book I would never read ever. LOL.

Which is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, I know, but it struck me as funny that that was my first thought.

-Jason

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

JasonChirevas said:
Wow, that's a book I would never read ever. LOL.

Which is meaningless in the grand scheme of things, I know, but it struck me as funny that that was my first thought.

-Jason

Williebee · Aug 9, 2007

Kind of depends on the style and genre, the tone of the story.

Ask it a different way? What is going to satisfy Dear Reader?

If he's a really bad, evil guy, slipping and falling on the ice isn't going to leave anybody satisfied.

GeorgeK · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I prefer brutal deaths.

One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger. .

How do you explain the physics of that? Obviously you paraphrased it to the point that someone would have to nitpick. A dagger's blade length is maximum 12 inches. A skinny 3 year old is going to weigh on the order of at least 25 pounds. The anterior to posterior chest diameter of a very skinny adult man is going to be minimum 9 inches, which leaves at most three inches with which to no only impale some part of the child (I'm assuming at the forearm between the bones, since that would be the skinniest place that might hold the weight) as well as sink the blade into something behind the man's body to support the weight of the child. (I'm assuming the crucifixion is holding up the man) A body does not have the structural strength to have a blade support anything but itself, if even that, depending upon it's sharpness and weight, nor will it have the structural integrety to act as a fulcrum in that situation unless it (the man) was frozen prior to impalement or was driven in at a very acute angle which means something longer than a dagger. The old triangular bayonets, (WW-I era) which were 18 inches long and caried in a scabbard at one's side might work. However that is the shortest thing I can think of that might...Or you could use a sharpened fire poker, that would be long enough and the baddy might have even used it for branding purposes.

Saundra Julian · Aug 9, 2007

Eww... A very compelling argument but much more information than I need on the subject.

Sassee · Aug 9, 2007

GeorgeK said:
How do you explain the physics of that? Obviously you paraphrased it to the point that someone would have to nitpick. A dagger's blade length is maximum 12 inches. A skinny 3 year old is going to weigh on the order of at least 25 pounds. The anterior to posterior chest diameter of a very skinny adult man is going to be minimum 9 inches, which leaves at most three inches with which to no only impale some part of the child (I'm assuming at the forearm between the bones, since that would be the skinniest place that might hold the weight) as well as sink the blade into something behind the man's body to support the weight of the child. (I'm assuming the crucifixion is holding up the man) A body does not have the structural strength to have a blade support anything but itself, if even that, depending upon it's sharpness and weight, nor will it have the structural integrety to act as a fulcrum in that situation unless it (the man) was frozen prior to impalement or was driven in at a very acute angle which means something longer than a dagger. The old triangular bayonets, (WW-I era) which were 18 inches long and caried in a scabbard at one's side might work. However that is the shortest thing I can think of that might...Or you could use a sharpened fire poker, that would be long enough and the baddy might have even used it for branding purposes.

I am totally writing down your name if I ever have a question about blades. Or skewering people.

Shady Lane · Aug 9, 2007

GeorgeK said:
How do you explain the physics of that? Obviously you paraphrased it to the point that someone would have to nitpick. A dagger's blade length is maximum 12 inches. A skinny 3 year old is going to weigh on the order of at least 25 pounds. The anterior to posterior chest diameter of a very skinny adult man is going to be minimum 9 inches, which leaves at most three inches with which to no only impale some part of the child (I'm assuming at the forearm between the bones, since that would be the skinniest place that might hold the weight) as well as sink the blade into something behind the man's body to support the weight of the child. (I'm assuming the crucifixion is holding up the man) A body does not have the structural strength to have a blade support anything but itself, if even that, depending upon it's sharpness and weight, nor will it have the structural integrety to act as a fulcrum in that situation unless it (the man) was frozen prior to impalement or was driven in at a very acute angle which means something longer than a dagger. The old triangular bayonets, (WW-I era) which were 18 inches long and caried in a scabbard at one's side might work. However that is the shortest thing I can think of that might...Or you could use a sharpened fire poker, that would be long enough and the baddy might have even used it for branding purposes.

Oh shit.

wee · Aug 9, 2007

citizen_erased said:
I could just have him stabbed and job done, he's dead or I could make it a bit horrific and shocking.

Just me, personally, I've read stabbings that were so gruesome they turned my stomach. And I would hate to die that way. Think about it: it isn't fast. You're going to bleed to death, in a lot of pain. I picture a horrific stabbing being one where the victim knows he will die, but can't stop trying to save himself & the scene fades to black with him dead, clutching a phone, & a 911 operator in the background saying, "hello, sir? are you there?" So close ... so far away.

The bigger question is: WHO is going to kill him, WHAT are that person's motivations, and HOW would that person do it? A revenge killing is going to be worse than a simple angry killing. The more terrible the motivation, the worse it will be ... after all, a murder victim doesn't choose his death; his killer does.

waaaaayyyy too much L&O:CI.....

wee

amber_grosjean · Aug 9, 2007

I would let the characters tell you how to do it. If they really didn't like this man, would they want him to suffer? You said he was bad, how bad? Go with your gut first, think about it later. When you edit, look over that scene. Does it work with the genre, the style you chose, the characters' actions? Keep the flow moving at the same pace and you should be all right.

Amber

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

GeorgeK said:
How do you explain the physics of that? Obviously you paraphrased it to the point that someone would have to nitpick. A dagger's blade length is maximum 12 inches. A skinny 3 year old is going to weigh on the order of at least 25 pounds. The anterior to posterior chest diameter of a very skinny adult man is going to be minimum 9 inches, which leaves at most three inches with which to no only impale some part of the child (I'm assuming at the forearm between the bones, since that would be the skinniest place that might hold the weight) as well as sink the blade into something behind the man's body to support the weight of the child. (I'm assuming the crucifixion is holding up the man) A body does not have the structural strength to have a blade support anything but itself, if even that, depending upon it's sharpness and weight, nor will it have the structural integrety to act as a fulcrum in that situation unless it (the man) was frozen prior to impalement or was driven in at a very acute angle which means something longer than a dagger. The old triangular bayonets, (WW-I era) which were 18 inches long and caried in a scabbard at one's side might work. However that is the shortest thing I can think of that might...Or you could use a sharpened fire poker, that would be long enough and the baddy might have even used it for branding purposes.

here's a question about blades and things. Is it possible to cut through someones achilles tendon? To snap it?

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

GeorgeK said:
How do you explain the physics of that? Obviously you paraphrased it to the point that someone would have to nitpick. A dagger's blade length is maximum 12 inches. A skinny 3 year old is going to weigh on the order of at least 25 pounds. The anterior to posterior chest diameter of a very skinny adult man is going to be minimum 9 inches, which leaves at most three inches with which to no only impale some part of the child (I'm assuming at the forearm between the bones, since that would be the skinniest place that might hold the weight) as well as sink the blade into something behind the man's body to support the weight of the child. (I'm assuming the crucifixion is holding up the man) A body does not have the structural strength to have a blade support anything but itself, if even that, depending upon it's sharpness and weight, nor will it have the structural integrety to act as a fulcrum in that situation unless it (the man) was frozen prior to impalement or was driven in at a very acute angle which means something longer than a dagger. The old triangular bayonets, (WW-I era) which were 18 inches long and caried in a scabbard at one's side might work. However that is the shortest thing I can think of that might...Or you could use a sharpened fire poker, that would be long enough and the baddy might have even used it for branding purposes.

I was actually just trying not to give a history and geography of the death, but here we go.

It's a fantasy series, so modern sword/dagger lengths aren't really 100% appropriate. It doesn't have to be a dagger, it could be a short sword or a poker I guess, but dagger was my first thought, and out of probably 20 or 30 people that know the story, you're the first person that has mentioned the physics of it.

I have a replica of Sting (from LotR) on my wall, and it is supposed to be an elven dagger. The blade is probably about 18 inches long, and not that I've tried, but I could definitely see a small child skewered to a wall with that thing. The man in question (her father) has been tortured and starved for a long period of time. He is very emaciated, so it's practically bones, organs, and nothing more. Also, you're dealing with a race of immortals that is pretty powerful, so I bet the bastard that did it would find someway to make it stick.

wee · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
I prefer brutal deaths.

One of my chars is crucified upside-down over the door of his mother's home, and his three-year-old daughter is pinned to his chest with a dagger.

Another of my chars is chased down by her deranged brother, raped, and skewered on a pike.

Umm, I think I read & write in a slightly different genre. :Jaw:

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

citizen_erased said:
here's a question about blades and things. Is it possible to cut through someones achilles tendon? To snap it?

It is definitely possible to cut through someone's achilles tendon, but the person would likely have to be in a roll attack, considering how close to the ground, behind the person they would need to be to make the slice.

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

Azraelsbane said:
It is definitely possible to cut through someone's achilles tendon, but the person would likely have to be in a roll attack, considering how close to the ground, behind the person they would need to be to make the slice.

Say the victim is on the floor, face first after being tackled and the attacker stands behind him. He could do it then? I dunno why but i've just got the feeling this has to be done as part of this death

Azraelsbane · Aug 9, 2007

citizen_erased said:
Say the victim is on the floor, face first after being tackled and the attacker stands behind him. He could do it then? I dunno why but i've just got the feeling this has to be done as part of this death

Yeah, it could be done. It would be painful, but beyond that is there a real reason that particularly needs to be done for the death? If he's already on the ground, does he have a chance of getting back up, and this stops him? I'd just wonder why this specific injury (so far from being fatal) would be done just prior to a killing, if the person was already subdued. Just my thoughts.

citizen_erased · Aug 9, 2007

torture method? I dunno. I want the killer to make a statement, so later when people hear about the description of the murder (in the novel) they will be thinking...Crikey! (enter swear words) And now, the scenario I have written, he has a knife in the back of his leg so he isn't getting up, and if he does he aint going anywhere fast.

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