What are the Mechanics of YOUR process ??

I've just come from the "Snowflake Process of Novel Writing" site --www.rsingermanson.com/htm...flake.html

AND -- I've read countless sites about using file cards or storyboards or binders etc.

While all of that was helpful to a certain degree - it occurred to me that it would help me immensely to hear from real flesh and blood writers to actually walk the talk.

What is YOUR process? How do YOU go about writing a novel? How do you "organize" plot ideas etc? WHAT works for you?

I've been having a problem getting started - and after much thought believe it is a question with knowing where to start - with the PROCESS and MECHANICS of it, rather than my writing ability (or lack thereof).

Thanks guys,
-Eve

(Hope this made sense -- ragweed allergy/med has my head feeling like a big heavy medicine ball. Not a real 'clear-thought' kinda day). Thanks again -E

It's funny you mention the Snowflake Process because I've just discovered it myself and find it enormously helpful, too, but then again, I'm an outliner (a dirty word on this board ). I think it's a great system to produce the first draft, especially as Singermanson keeps repeating how important it is that we introduce changes as we go and don't consider our outlines set in stone. He keeps saying that every step in his system might demand changes in what we've already written. That's great.

I'm currently doing step 3, devoting a full day to each character's story (I don't write the entire day but I do think about it all day long as I do other things). I've already found that my story has become much clearer and the characters have gained a lot of depth. Overall, following his system (and repeat, I'm only doing step 3 out of 10) has definitely improved the quality of my WIP. I finally know what I actually want to say with this book, and my characters have become believable, real people each with his or her own agenda in the story.

He does suggest we use spreadsheets, but personally, I just hate them. Maybe it's only me, but I get thoroughly fed up having to scroll left to right, up and down all the time. You can't keep track of anything this way. Uncle Jim's index card system works fine for me.

I'm very curious what other people think about the Snowflake, but let me tell you -- I started doing it for fun and didn't for one second think that it would add so much life and depth to my WIP.

Fresie

PS Of course, we all know about outlines and character charts, so you would say it's nothing new what Singermanson suggests. But for some reason, his system seems to work much better. Character charts never worked for me. I couldn't be bothered with working out the character's eye color and home address and what grades he got at school! By the time I got to the character's ideals and motivations, I couldn't care less. But his brief chart did wonders. I can really see my heroes act and face their respective conflicts. They've come to life.

i haven't been writing for long, but my current method seems to be working really well compared to what I used to do. For what it is worth: :shrug

I used to try to do a detailed time line and outline of each chapter and write a synopsis of all the important happenings and etc. This method was killing my creativity and motivation.

Now, I simply grab the laptop, sit comfortably, turn the music up loud, and start typing. Since I am currently writing a story, I have direction and I try to stay about 6 scenes ahead of what I am typing. All i basically know in my head is the general idea of what I want to have happen next.

Once I am in front of the computer, I just start typing. This way, I am essentially creating all the details as I go. I have a good picture of the ending in my head, so I have something to aim at.

So, we'll see how it works for me as time goes on. This method has been the most successful of all my attempts to date.

:snoopy

keller

When dealing with a novel, I write out a paragraph synopsis or summary of what should happen in every chapter. It helps me pace myself, reminds me where I'm going, etc. I'll keep a page of notes about specifics I may forget from earlier in the story as well, but that's all the side work I do for most stuff.

process

I just sit down and write the thing. Just like I'm sitting across the table from a friend and telling him a story.

When I started writing, one of the first things I did was look into the writing life of ten or twelve of my favorite writers. I found that all but one simply sat down and started writing. They didn't plot, didn't outline, didn't use any sort of "process."

Since I loved the novels they wrote, it seemed a wise idea to try writing teh same way they all did. It worked for me.

Re: process

I get a rough idea and start writing. After a wee while the characters start acting of their own accord and I just trail behind putting it all down.

My only concession is writing down the characters' names on a bit of paper, since I have been known to change them halfway through, otherwise.

Everyone has their own methods though - so go with whichever one suits you best.

Good luck,
aq

Re: process

My process is simple. I let the characters tell the story. I find a CD that puts me into the character's mind and just start writing/typing. This works for me. I've always hated outlining with a passion, and found it actually discourages me from writing my story.

But, as said before, each writer has to find out what method works for them and go with it.

Re: process

I sit down with a clipboard and write notes. About characters, themes, scenes, settings, the climax, whatever comes to mind. I do that until I think I have an understanding of one good story from soup to nuts. Then I go and write, never referring back to my original notes.

When I find that I glossed over something excessively and the story is generally losing its way, I'll take a break, grab my clipboard and go back to writing notes.

So I brainstorm until I think I have a story in my head, then I start writing it all down. The note-taking technique is predicated on the idea that I'm moving forward with the story. I don't bother with my past notes because they could be written based on old assumptions. If they're good ideas, I simply trust myself to automatically resurrect them again because they're appropriate to what I'm doing. As many writers have suggested, story ideas are the easy part.

If the prose that's coming out of my hands is taking me in a new direction, I'll take a break, grab my clipboard and again write notes to figure out what that direction means to the story.

In that I'm in a very steep part of the learning curve, I will frequently learn something new about storytelling that requires that I sit down with the ol' clipboard and write notes. A simple example of that is realizing that my mains have a mentor/student relationship, and that I don't have the skill to tell my story using that structure. So I'll be changing it to a peer relationship.

After I write "THE END".

So far, the only real reference material that I've used is a cast of characters, created after 75% of the story has been drafted. Doing that, I realized that I changed the name of one of my villains halfway through the story. And the character list also gives me some sense of the scope of the story. A bit like looking at the geography of the ground that the characters are moving across.

JB

Re: short note on outlining

I've always outlined technical articles or books, but never applied the same methodology to fiction writing. Until I found AW and read one of Jim Mac's posts.

Part of the enjoyment of writing for me was allowing the characters to charge ahead without the limitations or constraints of an outline. That's exactly how I thought of outlines... self-imposed limitations.

An editor/friend suggested I could cut first draft writing-time without sacrificing creativity, if I would only give outlining a try. I resisited the notion. I figured I had manged to write two novels without the benefit of outlines, so why change tactics at this late date.

After reading an exchange on the subject, facilitated by Jim, I drew up an Excel spreadsheet, modified it to avoid all that east/west scrolling, and set up a scene-by-scene outline. Worked like a charm.

For people like James Ritchie, a matrix is probably next to useless. For others, an outline can keep them moving along with purpose from scene to scene, chapter to chapter.

It always comes back to the individual.

Re: process

I spend an inordinate time away from the computer, working the story in my head. The story is with me all the time, wherever I go, wherever I am, awake or asleep. I keep a notebook to jot down things I feel I am apt to forget. For me, "writing" starts long before I sit down at the computer.

For me, sitting down at the computer is the joyous part. That's when it evolves from that embryonic story inside my head and develops into a full-blown story. It's here I get to play with words, finding exactly the right ones to convey my thoughts.

Now that I think about it, it's nothing I dislike about the writing process. Heck, I even enjoy rewriting. I suspect there is something seriously wrong with me!

Linda

Re: process

I don't have a strict process. I have tools to help me visualize my characters, plots, settings, etc. With my first novel, I did an outline, and I did character sketches. I also used a spreadsheet to keep track of my scenes/chapters (that helped with writing the synopsis as well).

With my WIP now, I am taking the organic approach and just write, letting my characters tell the story. So far it's working pretty well. Everything is in my head right now, except that everytime I finish with my scene, I put them in the spreadsheet. It works for me.

If you don't like using spreadsheet or Powerpoint, the index card method would work too.

Search function

I've tried a few different methods. One that seems to work is that I write a short first draft (for my current WIP I wrote a 70kword draft, the finished story looks like being in the region of 180k words) as an experimental piece. I then leave it for a while, read through it, throw out the bits that don't work, keep the characters I like and write it again from scratch, this time using an outline.

For outlining, I break the story down into distinct stages. As I start to write each stage, I break its outline into chapters. As I write the chapters I break their outline into scenes, usually 2-3 chapters ahead of where I'm actually writing. So I have a detailed outline for the near future, but only a vague one for the end of the story. This lets me change it more easily.

Re: process

In the four novel-length stories I've written, I began with a simple idea, tried it out on a character and let things go where they may. Only when I was more than half-way through did I find a need for any sort of outline; the plot and characters got so complex, I found myself lost (and misnaming characters as mentioned above).

Since my stories are all very linear--cause and effect--I prepare a spreadsheet, which serves several functions. I can organize scenes, times of day, etc., and keep track of word count, links to individual chapter files, and so on. In my current WIP, a sf epic, I also use the spreadsheet for scientific calculations necessary for ME to understand what the hell I've created.

I also, once I have most of my characters established, make up backstories for them. They look like charts. These are more detailed for the more important characters, merely brief descriptions for the minor ones. Once these are written, I rarely refer to them, except when an important detail, such as a character's birthday or the like comes up in the story.

NOW that I'm in final edit, I rely on these things more and more, fixing the little glitches discovered in the rewrite. I like having everything on the computer; it's easier for me to find than the scraps of paper that clutter my "paperless office."
:grin

process

It's just my experience, but the time it takes to write a first draft seems to be an indication of whether or not plotting and outlining is a good idea.

Those who write as I do, and who know how to write as I do, which is situational writing, seem to write very fast, very clean first drafts. Plotting or outlining would slow us down immensely.

But those who can't seem to get the hang of situational writing, who don't have the knack for it, seem to run into dead ends and plot problems often in a first draft. For those writer, outlining and plotting may well be a good idea.

But I also think that while outlining and plotting may well speed up the first draft for such writers, it will usually take more drafts and a longer amount of time overall to produce a publishable novel.

I sit,

I sit, I write. I don't think it out. I don't plan. I don't know where the story or characters are going, I learn the story as it comes out of the keyboard.

Do I have a lot of rewriting to do? Not really. Spell check--visual for things such as form for from and the like. I have a weird habit of me for my, mechanics mostly--add some detail to description, but in the long run--I write the story and it's done.

Exceptions (and not really an exception) I wrote a serial story that spanned almost 2 years in an on-line magazine. One chapter per month. I only wrote each chapter the month before. Now I am sitting down and doing an entire rekey of the story with only brief glances at the original, though I am using some scenes as they are.

It had plot trouble and inconsistencies. Why? I used an outline. Just can't use them.

Shawn

Re: I sit,

I wrote my first draft much as James Ritchie mentioned, that is, I didn't outline, plot or do character sheets.

What I came out with was a good idea of my main protagonist and her helpers, and the basic plot, but no depth to anything beyond that. Just hints here and there that the book could be much better.

I'm now doing the second/third/fourth draft (it gets confusing -- I was trying to fix the novel without knowing exactly how to fix it), and I need to go back and use the snowflake, or Uncle Jim's celtic knotwork, or something to make the book more than just a trite quest for a bunch of magical items.

I'm also reading Noah Lukeman's book The Plot Thickens, and much of what he says would work with the snowflake method, so I think I'll take a week or two and do the exercises suggested in both places, then go and do my next draft.

Thanks for the link.

process

Shawn,
I work pretty much the same way. I do work very hard to get the opening scene and setting right, but after that I just write the thing. I never have a clue what's going to happen on the next page, and don't want to know.

I tend to really dislike most of the plotted/outlines novels I've read.

My first drafts are very clean. Salable as they stand, if I wanted to, though a second, clean up draft definitely improves the flow and gets rid of some clunky sentences.

Re: process

I'm new here but I thought I'd throw in my two cents.

I start with the first line and go from there. I never know what's going to happen and like others have stated here, don't want to know. All those surprises, the rush of discovery I go through with my characters is the same thrill the reader will ultimately experience. In essence, I am my book's First Reader.

I'm currently at work on my ninth book in less than two years, (and no, I haven't sold one yet--just short stories so far--but it's just a matter of time and perseverance) and one thing I've learned for my process is that the clues to what should happen next are in the scenes I've already written, and it's rarely the obvious thing that will most assuredly happen but usually the obscure little messages and hints my characters give me that create the real twists and turns. I look for them should I get stuck, which doesn't happen much any more. About the only time I get writer's block is when I am off on the wrong track or have a problem with the story that needs to be addressed before I can move on. It took me about three novels to figure myself out, but now I'm pretty much in tune with my personal process.

Re: process

I start with some "what if" questions and build on them in my head. Eventually I have some characters who want to do things. I play with them in my head until they're sure of who they are and I can hear their "voices" clearly, then I start writing. What happens next is a combination of what I think the story is and what the characters do.

Okay, that probably sounds crazed. But I did try writing by an outline with character sketches on paper and all, and it was a disaster. I'm a bit jealous of people who can be that organized, but this screwy internal organic process works best for me.

Re: process

I work out the elements of the story in my head first, then write a detailed synopsis that includes the major characters, themes, and plot turns. I then put the synopsis away, and write the book from memory. I feel no obligation to the synopsis, which I rarely look at again after I've finished it: it's just a way to get my thoughts straight, and to be sure that I can take the idea all the way through to an ending. Sometimes the finished novel is quite close to the synopsis. Sometimes, as with my current WIP, it changes quite substantially (though I do always wind up at the originally-projected endpoint). So it's kind of a combination of planned and situational writing: I know in advance where I'm going, but how I get there is dictated by the process of writing it all down.

It takes me a long time to finish a book, in part because I rewrite as I go, in part because I'm just a damn slow writer. But it takes me less time to finish now than it did when I plunged in and let the characters take me where they would.

I don't think it's possible to tell who outlines and who doesn't. This is a question I always ask when I interview an author, because the answers can be so surprising. Some writers with astonishingly complex plots, who I would have sworn had to do some sort of advance planning, do none. Some who write relatively short, simple books do a lot. Neither method is intrinsically better than the other--it all comes down to what works for the individual.

- Victoria

Re: process

I've found I can tell who outlines far more often than not. It's one of the things I've gotten into the habit of checking on whenever I read a new writer. I'm not wrong very often. I'm not 100% on it, but I am awfully close to it. I think process does affect product, not necessarily for better or worse, but I think there is a definite difference.

Re: process

I've found I can tell who outlines far more often than not.

James, and could you please tell (or try to describe, I realise it's not very easy to define something like this) what this difference is? Just being curious. In what way does outlining affect the story?

Because above, you say that outlining must be important to those writers who can't come up with a story naturally. Does it have something to do with the quality of the book, from your experience? What is it?

Thank you,

Fresie

Snowflaking and other techniques

I'm a big fan of Randy Ingermanson's snowflake technique too, although I also use a lot of exercises from Don Maass' Writing the Breakout Novel (book and/or workbook) when it comes to developing plot twists and deepening conflict. A lot of times either a quick draft or the snowflake will show me that I'm missing something - then I can go back and figure out that I need more conflict or characterization or whatever is missing.

I've tried writing "organically" as James (I think) described, but I find I tend to ramble off into good prose but prose that doesn't belong in the story I'm working on. I get a cleaner, stronger first draft, requiring less housekeeping on the revision pass(es) if I do some 'advance work'.

On a related topic (revision process), has anyone tried Holly Lisle's One Pass Revision process?

BT

Re: Snowflaking and other techniques

I've tried writing "organically" as James (I think) described, but I find I tend to ramble off into good prose but prose that doesn't belong in the story I'm working on.

Lucky you. When I try to write "organically", 90 times out of 100 I can only come up with flat, clicheed, delightfully mediocre "writing". If I don't know exactly who did what and why, the resulting story is pathetic, writing wise as well. On the contrary, when I know beforehand what I'm writing about, the result is (according to my beta readers) quite readable 8o . So in my case, I don't think I'm doing something wrong outlining everything before I write. It obviously works for me.

(But it doesn't mean that I'll follow the outline as I write. Changes will inevitably build up, and most of the time I end up with a story remarkably different from what I thought it would be -- it turns out better and deeper, turns out to be the story it was probably destined to be from the beginning. But I need some sort of starting point to achieve this blissful state -- which is the outline.)

Now I'm very curious about what James A Ritchie has said about being able to tell outliners from non-outliners as he reads. I'm just wondering: HOW?

Re: Snowflaking and other techniques

I have to say at the outset of this that I could never do the snowflake thing. It would rob me of the joy, the excitement, the thrill of unfettered writing. But, I'm all for whatever works for the individual.

To me though, and I don't mean to offend anyone, the snowflake process looks a lot like organized procrastination. I could write two or three thousand words, or more if I'm uninterrupted, in the time the snowflake process appears to require.

I'm just one of those writers who doesn't question, say, the carrot in the pocket of my character. More often than not, there's a reason for its existence--I just can't see it yet. But if a purpose for the vegetable fails to materialize, I can always go back and take it out. That's revision for you.

Mari