strange way of setting up novel

jedimaster107 · Jul 11, 2007

I have a question. I have this idea for a story. i have the plot written and probably start an outline soon. What the story is about, i came up with a different approach. The story takes place in a theater (stage). The story is going to be in 2 parts and no chapters. but instead of like "Part 1" or "Part 2", i was going to have be "Act 1", "Act 2", etc. Just by the tone and nature of the story, having it be Act 1, Act 2 fits it better then part 1, Part 2, etc. I also have about three different endings for the novel. I was planning on the story ending one way. Then have alternant . ending 1, alternant ending 2, etc.

It would look something like this:

page - Act 1
story
page - Act 2
story
alternant ending 1
story
alternant ending 2

The question is, has something been done like this before? Is this a good idea where people might like it? Or should i just forget it?

IrishScribbler · Jul 11, 2007

If it works, why not? I've seen novels in which chapters were called "days" to help establish the timeline.

I say go for it and see how it works.

maestrowork · Jul 11, 2007

I am sure someone has experimented before. Not sure about the alternate endings -- some readers might be bothered by it, like "Will you make up your mind and give us a definitive ending?" What you have in mind might be more suitable for an interactive storytelling medium, such as hypertext, etc. to allow the readers to move around the plot and determine the ending they want...

Or something like that.

The Act I/Act II without chapter breaks can be off-putting, too. I know for sure there are books written without chapter breaks, but personally I don't like to read them. I need breaks. If I see a big block of text going for pages -- I'm physically scared.

But like Nicole said, why not just write it and see if it works?

Will Lavender · Jul 11, 2007

When you get into alternate endings, you're into meta territory.

Unless you're extremely deft, you almost ruin your chances at selling the book to a commercial publisher when you try your hand at metafiction. One of the finest writers of the last century, Robert Coover, toiled away in virtual obscurity because of the way he experimentally structured his works.

kristie911 · Jul 11, 2007

I'm with Maestro...I don't like books without chapters (or some kind of break). Huge chunks of text without breaks tend to freak me out and generally, I won't pick up a book that doesn't have some kind of break. I don't care what you call them, as long as there are breaks.

As far as alternate endings, I hate them in movies, I don't think I care for them in books either. Makes the author seem wishy-washy.

Will Lavender · Jul 11, 2007

Will Lavender said:
When you get into alternate endings, you're into meta territory.

Unless you're extremely deft, you almost ruin your chances at selling the book to a commercial publisher when you try your hand at metafiction. One of the finest writers of the last century, Robert Coover, toiled away in virtual obscurity because of the way he experimentally structured his works.

Let me add to this:

I think the "act" idea is pretty cool.

rugcat · Jul 11, 2007

Will Lavender;1466849. said:
One of the finest writers of the last century, Robert Coover, toiled away in virtual obscurity because of the way he experimentally structured his works.

The Universal Baseball Association was a great favorite of mine. And speaking of obscurist literary, have you ever read Harry Mathews?

Kaytie · Jul 11, 2007

You could always do an "Act One, Scene One" kind of breakdown to allow the reader breaks and for transition, but maybe that will follow a more common chapter structure that you are trying to avoid?

As for the endings, I'll echo what has already been said, although if one ending was for the stage and one ending was for backstage, that might be intriguing.

Definitely try it. You'll probably come up with other ideas as you go.

katiemac · Jul 11, 2007

Varying structure is fine. The alternate endings is probably going to receive more controversy about whether it's "right" or "wrong." Some people like alternate endings, some don't, so you'll just have to experiment.

At least you're not planning to stop the book prematurely and cut to a black screen.

althrasher · Jul 11, 2007

In response to what everyone says about alternate endings, I think they can be pretty cool. I think it's best used in comedy (the number one thing that pops into my mind is the last scene in Clue,) but I suppose it would be alright in other generes.

Will Lavender · Jul 11, 2007

rugcat said:
The Universal Baseball Association was a great favorite of mine. And speaking of obscurist literary, have you ever read Harry Mathews?

I own Universal Baseball, but have never read it. I've read a few stories in Pricksongs and Descants; Coover's "Beginnings" is one of my favorite stories.

And I've read bits and pieces of Matthews. He was a hero of a lot of the people I studied with at Bard, and they were always recommending him to me. If you like Matthews, you might like one of my teachers, Lydia Davis. (And perhaps you've read her already.)

BTW: there's an interesting book called Disappearing Through the Skylight, by O.B. Hardison. The book is about change in all facets of culture, and he devotes a chapter to L*A*N*G*U*A*G*E poetry and Oulipo.

JoNightshade · Jul 11, 2007

Yeah, I have to say I do not enjoy alternate endings. The writer is boss and I expect him/her to decide which is best. Regardless of which ending it is, I want to be satisfied, not left hanging. Having multiple endings is like... Like God saying, "So, I decided not to end the world with armageddon after all. It's just going to be silence and nothingness. No, wait-- yes, I will. Oh shucks, you decide! I just can't make up my mind!"

Mac H. · Jul 11, 2007

I've enjoyed alternative endings in stories when the second one doesn't 'undo' the first one.

For example, the story ends with the hero saving the girl. The End.

Instead of the 'alternative' ending have the hero not being able to save the girl, it could extend it just a bit longer .. so that we reveal that he has saved the girl, but she's mortally wounded. (For example)

I read one a while ago where the last chapter was titled "How the story ends." It was a satisfying ending.

There was a tiny chapter after the last one titled "How it really ended." .. with a reveal that changed things substantially.

If my brain worked I'd be able to remember what the story was.

Good luck .. although I'd be careful about trying anything too radical !

Mac
(Oh yeah - I think 'The Mysterious incident of the dog in the nighttime' numbered chapters only using primes .. but it made sense for that book)

katiemac · Jul 11, 2007

I read one a while ago where the last chapter was titled "How the story ends." It was a satisfying ending.

There was a tiny chapter after the last one titled "How it really ended." .. with a reveal that changed things substantially.

It's probably not the same book, but the Princess Bride does this.

javili · Jul 11, 2007

you almost ruin your chances at selling the book to a commercial publisher when you try your hand at metafiction.

That is not what metafiction means.

JamieFord · Jul 11, 2007

The play Noises Off takes place entirely on a stage (I know, ALL plays take place on a stage), but this one is sort of a play within a play.

Breathing Lessons by Anne Tyler takes place withing a 24 hour period. I think it had chapters, but was broken down into a couple of main parts.

Not sure on your alternative ending thing...

Nakhlasmoke · Jul 11, 2007

Try it and see if it works. Nothing is set in stone, if your betas find it confusibng and irritating, then write it off as a failed experiment, but don't *not* try.

And Terry Pratchett doesn't even have chapters, hasn't hurt his sales.

job · Jul 11, 2007

Hey. This sounds like it would be fun to write.
You would learn a tremendous amount about structure.

Whether you could sell it or not is a bit moot, but then (jo says cheerfully) the only way to find out is to write it.

Go for it.

Inkdaub · Jul 12, 2007

I say go for it as it sounds pretty cool to me. The story is king, though, and as long as the story is good and the structure emphasizes the story then all will be well.

Willowmound · Jul 12, 2007

jedimaster107 said:
Then have alternant . ending 1, alternant ending 2, etc.

The word is alternative.

This sounds like a fine way of doing it to me. If it works, great. Most things have been done before. I'd be surprised it this hadn't.

catephoenix · Jul 12, 2007

I like the idea of Act 1, Act 2 with perhaps Scene 1 etc (as Kaytie suggested) to break up the text. Not certain about the alternative endings though, seems a little gimmicky - reminds me a little of the Choose your Own Adventure books.

jedimaster107 · Jul 12, 2007

Thanks for the advice. What i was planning for the endings was how the main character ended up. Complete opponents to each other. One way he dies. Another he lives.

When i first thought up the idea for the story, i did think about "Scene 1" break but dismissed it. I might still give it a try.

The story is going to be a horror story. At first i was going to try to brake it up into two books but i don't think my brain will allow that.

Will Lavender · Jul 12, 2007

javili said:
That is not what metafiction means.

Metafiction is literally fiction that calls attention to the fact that it has been created. When the author steps inside the story to announce that he is controlling things by giving the narrative more than one ending, then another layer -- the meta in metafiction -- is created for the reader.

WorldPlanter · Jul 12, 2007

I concur with many of the other posters here. I don't like alternate endings for books or movies. About the only medium where I find them acceptable is in games since they're an entirely interactive medium.

Like others have already stated, having alternate endings gives readers the impression that the author wasn't really sure what they wanted or confident with their work. For me personally, it breaks my suspension of disbelief. I only want one reality.

As far as having Acts instead of chapter goes, I don't see why you couldn't except I would suggest breaking the acts down into smaller sub-sections such as scenes if you only plan on having two or three acts. A lot of text with no white space or breaks appears daunting to all but the most determined readers.

maestrowork · Jul 12, 2007

JamieFord said:
The play Noises Off takes place entirely on a stage (I know, ALL plays take place on a stage), but this one is sort of a play within a play.

Noises Off is brilliant in that they do the same "play" over and over, but each time different things happen and the plot escalates into a huge farce, plus you get to see both onstage and backstage, so it works beautifully and the whole thing is hilarious.

I'm not sure how you can accomplish something like that on paper, though. But never say never -- intricate structures can work, if the writer is deft enough to pull it off.

strange way of setting up novel

Fear the Death Ray

Everything is what it seems.

Happy to be here

Everything is what it seems.

Lost in the Fog

Five by Five

Prodigal Muser

Everything is what it seems.

has finally arrived

Board Visitor

Five by Five

giving resonant directions

yes

In the end, it's just you and the manuscript

wrapped in plastic

Lightly salted

Everything is what it seems.

Fear the Death Ray