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mr mistook
preyer
oh, i'm sure there's a clear cut definition. it always sounded more like a buzzword to me to replace the phrase 'story line.' actually, i don't hear 'story curve' as much as 'story arc,' which is a little more descriptive. it builds up, climaxes, and comes down in the denouement. i use this term quite often when i'm trying to impress people and yet have no idea what the hell i'm talking about, which is the point of buzzwords (my current favourite is 'what kind of value stream are we building into the product?' 'value stream?' sounds like a 'paradigm' of nonsense). you can also ask, 'what's the character's story arc?' i suppose that's a question for the professionals, who probably have all sorts of little buzzwords they've heard from editors.
Jyndral
I've mainly only heard of story arc and story curve in relation to writing scripts. But I can see how it'd be applicable to novels/short stories (to a lesser degree, perhaps) as well.
Garpyboy
yup, story-arc/curve is the same basically. The meaning behind this buzz phrase is....'what is the storyline'....or more specifically, how does the world, or protagonist change as a result of the story reaching its conclusion.
In screenwriting, character-arcs are pretty important. It's basically a MUST that your main character is different in some way at the end of the story than he was at the beginning....it justifies the telling of the story.
But anyway...enough waffling, 'What's the story?'...that's what 'story arc' means.
In screenwriting, character-arcs are pretty important. It's basically a MUST that your main character is different in some way at the end of the story than he was at the beginning....it justifies the telling of the story.
But anyway...enough waffling, 'What's the story?'...that's what 'story arc' means.
Writing Again
You begin the story one place, you end up another: related to where you started.
Boy falls in love with girl: Boy struggles to meet girl: Boy attempts to make a good impression: Boy marries girl.
Boy falls in love with girl: Boy struggles to impress girl: Boy realizes girl is a waste: Boy realizes the girl next door is the one he should have pursued all along.
Boy who loves baseball falls in love with a girl: Boy must choose between one and the other. When he chooses story is over.
Boy who is a car thief falls in love with girl: She insists he choose between her and his career. When he chooses the story is over.
They all start the same place, they end in different places, but subject is consistent: The relationship between the boy and the girl.
One of the main differences between novelists and screenwriters is that screenwriters have a pretty agreed upon language to describe what a story is and what the needed elements for a story are: While every novelist seems to speak their own language to describe the same things.
Boy falls in love with girl: Boy struggles to meet girl: Boy attempts to make a good impression: Boy marries girl.
Boy falls in love with girl: Boy struggles to impress girl: Boy realizes girl is a waste: Boy realizes the girl next door is the one he should have pursued all along.
Boy who loves baseball falls in love with a girl: Boy must choose between one and the other. When he chooses story is over.
Boy who is a car thief falls in love with girl: She insists he choose between her and his career. When he chooses the story is over.
They all start the same place, they end in different places, but subject is consistent: The relationship between the boy and the girl.
One of the main differences between novelists and screenwriters is that screenwriters have a pretty agreed upon language to describe what a story is and what the needed elements for a story are: While every novelist seems to speak their own language to describe the same things.
Jamesaritchie
Story curve can also relate to the actual shape of the story. It's like a bell curve. The story starts in one place, ends in another, but the events of the story connecting beginning and end form a bell curve, with the climax of the story being the apex of the curve, and the anti-climax being the sharp fall off after the apex.
Story curve is not only the storyline, but the shape of the storyline, the way teh events of the storyline fall along a bell curve that represents the story as a whole.
So story arc or curve is not just the related events of the story, but also the the shape, the rise and fall, pace and flow of the events.
Story curve is not only the storyline, but the shape of the storyline, the way teh events of the storyline fall along a bell curve that represents the story as a whole.
So story arc or curve is not just the related events of the story, but also the the shape, the rise and fall, pace and flow of the events.
preyer
Jamesaritchie
so if you describe yours as a 'story squiggly line,' you may have problems.
Maybe I'll try that next time my agent asks about a storyline for a new novel. "Yeah, it's kind of a squiggly line with a couple of shape point about midway thrugh, then a great big tall point near the end, followed by sort of a ski jump."
I wonder if I'll need a new agent after that?
reph
An adventure story might have a squiggly-line arc: the protagonist continually gets into scrapes and gets out. Another story might have a tilted parabola. The arc follows rising and falling tension.
Writing Again
The character's fortunes rise and fall, not the character's attitudes, ideas, beliefs, basic situation. Those are plot points.
In a well plotted story the ark happens when the character solves their problem by reaching within themselves and finding new resources.
For instance a person who has been picked on all their lives may suffer terribly, and have many ups and downs, but the resolution comes when they solve the problem from within.
Let me give 3 possible solutions.
Traditional was the person learned to stand up for themselves and fight back. This method is losing acceptance.
One I taught one of my nephews was to laugh at himself by taking a video of him doing what the other kids were laughing about. When he learned to laugh at himself his problems disappeared.
A niece swears up and down that all of her interpersonal problems in school ended the day she learned to ignore everyone but her friends.
Each of these, and other solutions work. Each represents character ark.
The ups and downs on the way to that ark do not change the structure: they just describe setbacks which can be called plot points.
In a well plotted story the ark happens when the character solves their problem by reaching within themselves and finding new resources.
For instance a person who has been picked on all their lives may suffer terribly, and have many ups and downs, but the resolution comes when they solve the problem from within.
Let me give 3 possible solutions.
Traditional was the person learned to stand up for themselves and fight back. This method is losing acceptance.
One I taught one of my nephews was to laugh at himself by taking a video of him doing what the other kids were laughing about. When he learned to laugh at himself his problems disappeared.
A niece swears up and down that all of her interpersonal problems in school ended the day she learned to ignore everyone but her friends.
Each of these, and other solutions work. Each represents character ark.
The ups and downs on the way to that ark do not change the structure: they just describe setbacks which can be called plot points.
Jamesaritchie
The character's fortunes rise and fall, not the character's attitudes, ideas, beliefs, basic situation. Those are plot points.
True, but the tension and conflict of a story does rie and fall, and is one of the main uses of a bell curve story arc. By looking atthe story arc in terms of rise and fall of tension and conflict, and the distance between, you can get a very good idea as to whether or not the story has the right pace and flow to be workable.
mr mistook
Maybe it's because of my experience as an amature musician recording in a home studio, but I tend to see a story as having layers of arcs that work in concert.
You've got the long term arc of the main plot - sort of like the bass lined. You've got the arc of the sub-plot which I suppose could be like the guitars. Pacing is like percussion. And each individual character is a different instrument - some only supporting the music, others taking solos.
I guess the narrator would be the lead singer - even for him/her, it's bad to scream in a quiet bit, or sing softly in a loud bit. 8)
You've got the long term arc of the main plot - sort of like the bass lined. You've got the arc of the sub-plot which I suppose could be like the guitars. Pacing is like percussion. And each individual character is a different instrument - some only supporting the music, others taking solos.
I guess the narrator would be the lead singer - even for him/her, it's bad to scream in a quiet bit, or sing softly in a loud bit. 8)
Writing Again
Jamesaritchie
True, but the tension and conflict of a story does rie and fall, and is one of the main uses of a bell curve story arc. By looking atthe story arc in terms of rise and fall of tension and conflict, and the distance between, you can get a very good idea as to whether or not the story has the right pace and flow to be workable.[/quote]
Not what I would call precise, but definitely can be a useful way to view a story. I'm not adverse to using every tool that works, or even helps.
mr mistook,
I am musically challenged. Yet I get an over all picture of what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense: Now if you could just put it in a language I could fully understand...
<hr></blockquote><!--EZCODE QUOTE END--><!--EZCODE QUOTE START--><blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The character's fortunes rise and fall, not the character's attitudes, ideas, beliefs, basic situation. Those are plot
True, but the tension and conflict of a story does rie and fall, and is one of the main uses of a bell curve story arc. By looking atthe story arc in terms of rise and fall of tension and conflict, and the distance between, you can get a very good idea as to whether or not the story has the right pace and flow to be workable.[/quote]
Not what I would call precise, but definitely can be a useful way to view a story. I'm not adverse to using every tool that works, or even helps.
mr mistook,
You've got the long term arc of the main plot - sort of like the bass lined. You've got the arc of the sub-plot which I suppose could be like the guitars. Pacing is like percussion. And each individual character is a different instrument - some only supporting the music, others taking solos.
I guess the narrator would be the lead singer - even for him/her, it's bad to scream in a quiet bit, or sing softly in a loud bit.
I am musically challenged. Yet I get an over all picture of what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense: Now if you could just put it in a language I could fully understand...
Jamesaritchie
Using a bell curve to plot tension and conflict is pretty darned precise. Once you get the hang of it, learn how to do it properly, it can tell you an awful lot about a story without even reading it. It can also easily point out weaknesses you might miss otherwise.
Not that it really does me any good. I find it easy to analyze someone else's stories this way, but I'm useless at analyzing my own, no matter what tools I use. Too close to the story, I guess. I can always find a reason why my own story is just fine, thank you. Especially when it isn't.
Not that it really does me any good. I find it easy to analyze someone else's stories this way, but I'm useless at analyzing my own, no matter what tools I use. Too close to the story, I guess. I can always find a reason why my own story is just fine, thank you. Especially when it isn't.
mr mistook
I am musically challenged. Yet I get an over all picture of what you are saying and it makes a lot of sense: Now if you could just put it in a language I could fully understand...
I guess what I'm saying is that you can have more than one story line going on in a novel. You can weave together several story lines, having them intersect in interesting ways. So, if the curve of one story line is heading down, another could be building in tension, and a third could be wavering in between.
That's what I'm trying to do with my WIP, which is what's making it so difficult for me to write. I've essentially got three main characters, each with their own story line.
"A" wants to find true love
"B" wants to find fame and fortune
"C" wants to exploit the poor for a profit
The trick is... all three of these characters need the cooperation of "D" to acheive their goals, and all three goals are mutually exclusive.
"D" is a catalyst. He doesn't do much but bum around town. He's largely unaware of what's going on around him.
preyer
in terms of music, i think your idea, mm, is best represented in zep's 'stairway to heaven.' (hopefully that's an example of a song *everyone* has heard.) anything with an I, I, III, I pattern just doesn't work, eh?
anyone asking me what the story arc is might as well ask me about a story's theme. hell if i know. i don't write 'themes.' not on purpose, anyway.
one question i have serious problems answering is when people ask what the story is about, as if i could sum it up in a few sentences. stock answer: oh, about 400 pages.
anyone asking me what the story arc is might as well ask me about a story's theme. hell if i know. i don't write 'themes.' not on purpose, anyway.
one question i have serious problems answering is when people ask what the story is about, as if i could sum it up in a few sentences. stock answer: oh, about 400 pages.
Writing Again
anyone asking me what the story arc is might as well ask me about a story's theme. hell if i know. i don't write 'themes.' not on purpose, anyway.
I don't write "themes" either. I know how, but I don't do it. Most of the time I'd have to really work to figure out what the theme is, and I don't want to be bothered.
Most people who worry about themes are either writing for a tight market that only allows certain themes, (pulp markets were very conservative, even for their own time let alone ours) such as "crime never pays" or "people who never lie always win" or they are those writers who believe their story should carry an important message worth hearing.
Personally I have no message worth listening too, and I could write a story saying "good guys always win" one day and the next write one saying "good guys always finish last" the next.
It is interesting that no one wants a story to moralize or preach, but they want the main character to reach an epiphany: Isn't that a subtle way of doing the same thing?
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