My characters have dirty mouths.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

I'm not worried about the content of the story, like some people, but I'm a little worried about the language that some of the characters use. The story is probably somewhere inbetween children's an YA, and I know that in YA there's quite a lot of profanity, but in Children's, not so much.

I think the problem is mostly the main character. He's the little voice inside a character's head, so even though the host character wouldn't say what the main character is saying because somehow he's not supposed to know those words (haha, like kids don't), but the main character can get away with being less self-censored because he knows the only one listening is the host, and even he doesn't listen most of the time.

For that reason, it feels really wrong to whitewash it. Any advice on what to do with a character like this?

scarletpeaches · Jun 30, 2007

Hmm...is there any way of toning down the stronger swear words, perhaps substituting more jokey words like feck for you-know-what?

You might be able to make up your own swear words.

Or perhaps the voice in the head starting to say something and the 'host' could interrupt. "See her? She's a stupid c-" - "Shut up!"

Or something.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
Hmm...is there any way of toning down the stronger swear words, perhaps substituting more jokey words like feck for you-know-what?

You might be able to make up your own swear words.

Or perhaps the voice in the head starting to say something and the 'host' could interrupt. "See her? She's a stupid c-" - "Shut up!"

Or something.

The host wouldn't silence the MC, it's not in his character, AT ALL.

Maybe if this does get published under children's lit, I could change all the swears into counterparts which are just as dirty in that world -- it is fantasy, after all, so while that word may mean nothing here, it could be obscene there.

I don't know, it just doesn't feel right without the character saying 'bitch' about every other word for this section of the first chapter. I mean, she was trying to drown him, after all, so I would say so myself, but for some reason that'd probably be considered objectionable in a children's book. XD

Claudia Gray · Jun 30, 2007

I can tell you that my editor strongly cautioned me to cut the swearing in my YA text to the absolute minimum. There is some strong language still in there, but anywhere I could cut, I did -- and there wasn't much even to start with. Basically, librarians, teachers and parents have a lot to do with what YA books get broad exposure, and they tend to frown on language.

That said, there is plenty of YA out there with language far stronger than mine; it all comes down to what's necessary for your book. But if you can think of other ways to express your characters' alienation/anger/etc., try that.

Shady Lane · Jun 30, 2007

"See her? She's a stupid c-" - "Shut up!"

I find something about this so amazing.

katiemac · Jun 30, 2007

If the language is necessary, you can always say "He cursed" or "He swore."

A couple of times in the Harry Potter books -- more when the kids themselves are older -- there have been lines like:

Then he said a swear word that made Hermione say "Ron!"

You can get creative with it.

Danger Jane · Jun 30, 2007

You might just want to up the age group, honestly. See "Fat Kid Rules the World" for a YA book with tons of cursing.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Danger Jane said:
You might just want to up the age group, honestly. See "Fat Kid Rules the World" for a YA book with tons of cursing.

Come to think of it, I don't really think this story would be a children's story. There's a lot of a character getting dismembered, even if it is only in dreams. Hmmm... How graphic can you get with violence in YA, then again, it's mostly bizarro violence, and in YA, I'm pretty sure you can get pretty violent.

Shady Lane · Jun 30, 2007

You can do whatever the hell you want in YA. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Shady Lane said:
You can do whatever the hell you want in YA. I cannot be convinced otherwise.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can do whatever the hell you want in YA, but I think in YA they want to have violence as the stamp of realism. But, that said, I'm pretty sure that this story is YA.

Zoombie · Jun 30, 2007

Consider yourself lucky, Hap. Your characters only have dirty mouths. You can hide that with creative word play. My characters have dirty minds. Or sex minds, depending on your views of sex and love and all that jazz. I have counted 2 full blown incounters, 3 foreplays and at least 5 cuddlings. Mmm...cuddlings. I'm thinking I can get away with it by playing it sweet and very "in love"...

But yes, creative word play! As one other poster put it, just cut aaaaround the word!

"You stupid-" he shouted, capping the sentence with a word that would have inspired a flying drop kick by the girl...if she was a black belt.

And so on.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Zoombie said:
Consider yourself lucky, Hap. Your characters only have dirty mouths. You can hide that with creative word play. My characters have dirty minds. Or sex minds, depending on your views of sex and love and all that jazz. I have counted 2 full blown incounters, 3 foreplays and at least 5 cuddlings. Mmm...cuddlings. I'm thinking I can get away with it by playing it sweet and very "in love"...

But yes, creative word play! As one other poster put it, just cut aaaaround the word!

"You stupid-" he shouted, capping the sentence with a word that would have inspired a flying drop kick by the girl...if she was a black belt.

And so on.

Actually, one character is particularly morbid, and that's the one that the voice is inhabiting... What am I supposed to do with decapitation? The MC gets decapitated. He's okay, but still.

Zoombie · Jun 30, 2007

Show it. As we all know, swearing is evil and sex is of the devil, but violence is just fine.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Zoombie said:
Show it. As we all know, swearing is evil and sex is of the devil, but violence is just fine.

Well, that's good to know. ^_^

So I can go ahead with that thing where his intestines get ripped out?

Zoombie · Jun 30, 2007

Sure! In MY YA book, a guy's face gets torn off by a Hanibal Lector quoting robot with claws for fingers, tail and face. It's like a big old skeleton with a single HAL esque red eye and a mean temperment. And then the bad guy gets killed by being through into Intergalactic version of the a woodchipper. Cause I looooooove woodchippers.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Zoombie said:
Sure! In MY YA book, a guy's face gets torn off by a Hanibal Lector quoting robot with claws for fingers, tail and face. It's like a big old skeleton with a single HAL esque red eye and a mean temperment. And then the bad guy gets killed by being through into Intergalactic version of the a woodchipper. Cause I looooooove woodchippers.

Amazing. XD I love woodchippers, too.

Zoombie · Jun 30, 2007

So go and write. And don't forget, add in sex and swearing and sviolence. Our youth are too corrupted by Disney and such to think life is nice and happy all the time. Well, guess what...IT IS. If you make it. Just smile and be as hard as a nail, pleasant but tenacious and never give uppy, and life'll be a-okay. Don't be all whingey.

Hapax Legomenon · Jun 30, 2007

Zoombie said:
So go and write. And don't forget, add in sex and swearing and sviolence. Our youth are too corrupted by Disney and such to think life is nice and happy all the time. Well, guess what...IT IS. If you make it. Just smile and be as hard as a nail, pleasant but tenacious and never give uppy, and life'll be a-okay. Don't be all whingey.

But I don't like writing sex! D:

No, honestly, I don't. It's not that it's uncomfortable, it's just that I don't like to. Same as how I don't like writing about... well, a lotta things.

So swearing and violence good. Sex, well, I leave that out.

Zoombie · Jun 30, 2007

Gotta be intouch...or was in ontouch with all kinds. Right? No. Wrong! Wait, what?

Sorry, I'm tired and zonked out my head. Zonked like a Bugbear with a mace in it's skull.

Sex is fine, for me at least...I think. I keep looking over my shoulder, which annoys my partner to no end.

Wait, I mean writing sex is fine for me at least. As long as it's consensual.

But, hey, you're not me. So write what you want and put it up here so we can ~~make fun of you~~ critique you.

Words Are My Life · Jul 3, 2007

My main character says "bitch" once. I was also wondering how that would be accepted because it is a bubble gum sort of girly book. But when push came to shove, the queen bee needed to be called a bitch. There was no other word to use.

I guess I'll see when I get furhter along in the process if people think it's appropriate or not.

Zoombie · Jul 3, 2007

You could call her a puddle of steaming excrement, slopped onto a pile of vomit, fermented with formaldehyde and served up with the severed heads of rotting chickens.

scarletpeaches · Jul 3, 2007

Zoombie said:
Show it. As we all know, swearing is evil and sex is of the devil, but violence is just fine.

I like violent sex that makes me swear. How dirty is that?

RumpleTumbler · Jul 3, 2007

In lieu of saying "she farted" you could say:

An invisible boulder rolled from the inner bowel into the rectum. Gathering speed, expanding the walls of the inner sphincter the unseen cloud of poison burst forth from her anus in a spectacular display of Gods sense of humor.

writeroffthelake · Jul 10, 2007

Don't censor yourself, just write it. You really won't know what the character WANTS to say until you get it down on paper. If, six months or so after you complete it, you go back over and find some of the language more harsh than you wish, then you can change it when you revise.

You can't revise what you haven't written. So get it down. It will also help you be able to better get into the character if you write it the way the character wants to think it.

My own opinion as to whether 4-letter words are ok for kids? Find me a kid in kindergarten who doesn't already know the words and the meaning of the words.

As a kid growing up in the mid Fifties, we all knew those words before we started school (and the dirty jokes a 4-year-old tells are WAY MORE DIRTY than any I've ever told as an adult). Our parents knew we knew those words, mostly because we told them we did. The "rule" was that it was ok to say them in front of just our friends when there were no adults to overhear us, but they were not to be used in front of other adults.

Kids aren't stupid, so treat them with respect and assume they know and use the words. If it's right for the character, then write what's right...or you'll be writing a lie and you sound like too honest a writer to want to do that.

Zoombie · Jul 10, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I like violent sex that makes me swear. How dirty is that?

Chains! Chains and collars with leashes! Muahahahaha!

But no whips.

My characters have dirty mouths.

Hapax Legomenon

scarletpeaches

Hapax Legomenon

Claudia Gray

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

katiemac

Five by Five

Danger Jane

Hapax Legomenon

Shady Lane

my name is hannah

Hapax Legomenon

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Hapax Legomenon

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Hapax Legomenon

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Hapax Legomenon

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Hapax Legomenon

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

Words Are My Life

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse

scarletpeaches

RumpleTumbler

Loves Joni Mitchell

writeroffthelake

Zoombie

Dragon of the Multiverse