Profanity in your novel?

BoyBlog · Jun 27, 2007

Okay, I searched and didn't see a thread about this for the last month and a half, and my arse was too lazy to search further (It really is, it just walked off!)...

How much profanity is too much profanity in a novel? Is there an amount of profanity that an editor reading your full or partial would be shocked... or, is there never *too* much?

MidnightMuse · Jun 27, 2007

In my opinion - if it's in there because the writer newly discovered 4-letter words, it's too much. If it's something a reader will notice, it's too much.

If it's there only when needed, it's enough.

Saundra Julian · Jun 27, 2007

I agree with Muse. A little goes a long way, too much is a real turn off.

kristie911 · Jun 27, 2007

If the character requires it, then it's not overboard. But make sure it's not just swearing for the sake of swearing, your reader will notice when it's not warranted.

JoNightshade · Jun 27, 2007

Only when needed is correct. Even if every single one of your characters swears a blue streak every time he opens his mouth, you should pare it down. My dad always told me that people who use profanity profusely are just too stupid to be able to construct a coherent sentence, and in part he's right. It can become a crutch, a catch-all for extreme emotion. And if you use it to much, it becomes ineffective. Background noise.

Also, it really depends on your character. I think profanity is often a useful way to differentiate between characters. For instance, one of my characters never, ever swears at all. This is a function of her personality. Another character swears frequently. Yet another will only occasionally swear, when he is under a lot of stress. Of course this is not the only way I show character, but it is part of the overall picture.

Andre_Laurent · Jun 27, 2007

I have a character who tends to launch the F-bomb on a regular basis...I think I will have to wash his mouth out with soap on the second draft. To much is just too much.

Southern_girl29 · Jun 27, 2007

I agree with the others. I don't like a lot of profanity in a novel, but if the character is the kind of character who speaks that way, you have to use it. I do think it can be parred down though.

Death Wizard · Jun 27, 2007

When used sparingly, the F Bomb can have a very jarring effect, which is great if that's your intention but not so good if it's not.

Scrawler · Jun 27, 2007

"Shit" is the only 4-letter word I use in mine. I just don't like reading gratuitous profanity. I don't like filthy-mouthed characters in my real life, and don't find them "entertaining" in novels.

Siddow · Jun 27, 2007

There's a bit about this in Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, and it was such a great example that it's forever burned into my memory.

Ya know, this is a book about writing, so it's very clean. Then you get to the part about profanity, where the authors echo the sentiments above, ending with saying, "Just imagine the power a single obscenity can have, especially if it's the only one in the whole fucking book."

Whoa. Got it. That one line blew me away.

Claudia Gray · Jun 27, 2007

Use the amount appropriate for your setting. If you're writing about life in a maximum-security prison, you probably need to lay it on pretty thick. If you're writing about the Daughters of the American Revolution in the 1930s, maybe a little less.

I agree that you should probably use the least you can while being true to your setting, in order to make sure that the language has the most impact.

Sean D. Schaffer · Jun 27, 2007

MidnightMuse said:
In my opinion - if it's in there because the writer newly discovered 4-letter words, it's too much. If it's something a reader will notice, it's too much.

If it's there only when needed, it's enough.

That is also my opinion. If a writer uses profanity just to get a rise out of their readers, then I think they're using it too much.

But if the characters and the story need the profanity, then by all means put it in.

In my own WIP, I have several scenes where profanity is used ... even the dreaded 'F-word' is used at least once or twice in the work. But this is done in situations of anger or emphasis, and not just as casual conversation.

But then again, I thought the cussing in Beverly Hills Cop was quite appropriate, because Eddie Murphy's character was an inner city police officer and for the character, cussing was a part of everyday life.

So the point I'm trying to make is, the story and the characters should be the only factor in deciding whether or not to put profanity into a work. (Heck, these should be, in my opinion, the only factor deciding whether or not to put anything into the piece, but that's another subject altogether.) Too much, to me, is just putting it in for the sake of having a cuss word in the work.

janetbellinger · Jun 27, 2007

I think profanity has already been done and has become a cliche. If I hear it, I want it to be from unexpected sources, such as in The Kite Runner, when Muslim Soraya throws a couple of f-words around. In t hat context, it makes an impact. If a nun said it, it would also impress me, otherwise, it has no value at all.

NeuroFizz · Jun 27, 2007

Every character in a story should have a unique voice, and a realistic one. If a character is the type who would use foul language in normal dialogue, best to make it realistic. This cuts both ways, though. Realistic requires that the author doesn't overdo it.

If an author writes an inner city punk youth, and omits foul language because of some authorial stand against such things, chances are it will read as unrealistic. And this is not just an inner city thing. DJ Jazzy Trevor of Pierre, South Dakota will likely throw a few f-words around while mimicking his hip-hop heroes. And I'll bet a significant number of white collar types will come up with a doozy or two after hitting a thumb with a hammer while pounding down the nail pops in the hot tub deck.

Soccer Mom · Jun 27, 2007

Heh. THere is none in my last two books, because I'm writing middle-grade now. Here's the kicker. I had to run a search (find and destroy) on some four letter words in my last ms and was shocked at the number that had slipped through. Oops. :tongue

FennelGiraffe · Jun 27, 2007

BoyBlog said:
How much profanity is too much profanity in a novel? Is there an amount of profanity that an editor reading your full or partial would be shocked... or, is there never *too* much?

When we write dialog, we don't write all the umms and uhhs and ya knows and pauses and repetitions that people use in real life. We only include them in the rare cases where we want to draw attention to the hesitation. Dialog is more coherent, more meaningful, than the way people really speak.

In my opinion, profanity falls into the same category. If it's appropriate for a character to use it, fine. But a little goes a long, long way--use it much more sparingly than such a person would in real life.

BoyBlog · Jun 27, 2007

Siddow said:
There's a bit about this in Self-Editing for Fiction Writers, and it was such a great example that it's forever burned into my memory.

Ya know, this is a book about writing, so it's very clean. Then you get to the part about profanity, where the authors echo the sentiments above, ending with saying, "Just imagine the power a single obscenity can have, especially if it's the only one in the whole fucking book."

Whoa. Got it. That one line blew me away.

That is pretty jarring!

*Must. Purchase. Book!*

I always have the problem when editing if the character should be a little censored or not. For example, I wrote about an inner city spy and he has a filthy mouth, but I'm not sure if it would go over better if I edited him a little.

Of course, in real life he would tell me to mind my fucking business and move on, but alas X_~.

mscelina · Jun 27, 2007

for me it depends on the genre. YA--absolutely not. Erotica--absolutely yes. Everything has its place. It's a writer's job to know where that place is.

maestrowork · Jun 27, 2007

BoyBlog said:
How much profanity is too much profanity in a novel? Is there an amount of profanity that an editor reading your full or partial would be shocked... or, is there never *too* much?

Too much for your story. Too much if it's repetitive (do you need to use the F word every other sentence?). Too much if it's the wrong target audience (Harry Potter doesn't use the F word). Too much if it's not true to the situation and characters. Too much if it's gratuitous.

Spiny Norman · Jun 27, 2007

If it sounds right for the characters. Look at stuff like The Big Lebowski or Knocked Up. They drop crazy stuff left and right (almost didn't say "stuff") and after a while you tune it out and don't notice, because you're paying attention to the character and that's how the character expresses himself. Holden Caulfield tossed around his fair share (excluding "fuck," as the only time that's included is a tirade against its use) and the only people it upset were overly protective PTA moms who had never read the book. Still an American classic.

If you do it right no one will notice, because they'll feel like they know the character and then it's not an issue anymore. They expect it and anticipate it.

jclarkdawe · Jun 27, 2007

Just out of curiosity, I checked my WIP. It has 44 f-bombs. Is it too much? I don't think so. Story is about a twelve-year-old girl who is severely injured in an accident, resulting in her being in a wheelchair and massive amounts of pain (daily Oxycontin and Percocet). To make her life even crappier, same accident kills parents and her brother.

Pain and suffering are a big issue in the book. Much of the swearing is in her head. Is it too much? I don't think so, but we'll have to see how my readers (when it's ready) vote.

I don't think it will have a problem being sold with the present amount of profanity. It's used in periods of massive pain and frustration, which unfortunately there's a lot of.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Shady Lane · Jun 27, 2007

jclarkdawe said:
Just out of curiosity, I checked my WIP. It has 44 f-bombs. Is it too much? I don't think so. Story is about a twelve-year-old girl who is severely injured in an accident, resulting in her being in a wheelchair and massive amounts of pain (daily Oxycontin and Percocet). To make her life even crappier, same accident kills parents and her brother.

Pain and suffering are a big issue in the book. Much of the swearing is in her head. Is it too much? I don't think so, but we'll have to see how my readers (when it's ready) vote.

I don't think it will have a problem being sold with the present amount of profanity. It's used in periods of massive pain and frustration, which unfortunately there's a lot of.

Jim Clark-Dawe

Is this a YA?

In my experience, YA books are way more tolerent. Teenagers skim over curses, and don't think of them as a big deal. It makes the thought/dialogue more natural.

maestrowork · Jun 27, 2007

Barbarique said:
I personally detest profanity. In my experience, folks who constantly spew the F, S, MF and C words are boors, cretins, thugs, or all three. (The entire rap music industry, e.g.)

You and I probably won't be friends.

mscelina · Jun 27, 2007

Barbarique said:
I personally detest profanity. In my experience, folks who constantly spew the F, S, MF and C words are boors, cretins, thugs, or all three. (The entire rap music industry, e.g.)

However, if you wish to efficiently illustrate that one of your characters is a boor/cretin/thug, it's hard to beat a few choice bits of obscenity-laced dialogue. One of my villains (a spouse-abusing drunkard next to whom Bill Sikes would seem charming) does use filthy language, although far more sparingly than such a person would in real life.

Of course, he does come to a singularly unpleasant bad end. That'll teach him!

Why, Barb you *bleep* how the *bleep* can you saysuch *bleeping* things all the *bleeping some more* time, *bleepadableepit*. I *bleeping* expected *bleeping* better from you *bleep*.

Whew! That was hard!

heyjude · Jun 27, 2007

I don't like profanity either. I will occasionally allude to it, but that's all. I've been known to put down a book that used too much gratuitous language, particularly taking Jesus' name in vain. That's just icky.

Profanity in your novel?

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