Newbie with some questions

big e · Jun 12, 2007

Hi everybody. I have a few questions for those of you that have experience in this field.

1. I have finished a 70,000 word novel that I’m having trouble getting feedback on. A few people have read through some of it and they said they liked what they read, but didn’t give me any real feedback. What should I do?

2. Should I shelve my novel for now and try to get some short stories published in magazines (like Weird Tales and Fantasy and Science fiction) so that I can have somewhat of a track record when I start shopping my novel around?

mscelina · Jun 12, 2007

Everyone's path is different. Even if you decide to go ahead and ship out the novel sans feedback, you will have probably a lot of time before you hear back from anyone. It's best to keep on writing, whether you're sending out short stories for submission or working on a second novel. No matter what you decide, keep writing.

Good luck.

Shady Lane · Jun 12, 2007

Hi,

Have you done more than one draft of the novel? You can immensely improve a book through a second or third draft...and you don't even need feedback at this stage in the game. You can figure it out for yourself.

If you can write short stories, I'd say go for it.

WordGypsy · Jun 12, 2007

Post the novel in the share your work forum on here

JoNightshade · Jun 12, 2007

big e said:
Hi everybody. I have a few questions for those of you that have experience in this field.

1. I have finished a 70,000 word novel that I’m having trouble getting feedback on. A few people have read through some of it and they said they liked what they read, but didn’t give me any real feedback. What should I do?

I suggest finding someone who isn't a friend or family member to critique your work. Someone you trust, but not someone who feels like they have to be really nice to you.

2. Should I shelve my novel for now and try to get some short stories published in magazines (like Weird Tales and Fantasy and Science fiction) so that I can have somewhat of a track record when I start shopping my novel around?

I don't think this is absolutely necessary, but I did it, and it has helped immensely. Now that I'm listing five or six credits on my query letter, I get a lot more requests for material. Sounds like you write sci fi... you might look into smaller magazines first, as the major magazines in that genre can be very hard to break into. You don't need to be at the top... you just have to show that you can write well enough to get published!

akiwiguy · Jun 12, 2007

WordGypsy said:
Post the novel in the share your work forum on here

Yeah, I'd suggest posting part of, say first chapter, on here for critique. You mention "A few people have read it...", and not sure in your case, but I never expect accurate feedback from family and friends, in fact I don't share my work with them as it happens.

And another option is to look for a mentor/critique partner(s) to work with you. All the best.

johnzakour · Jun 12, 2007

Posting in the share your work section is a good idea.

I'm not a big fan of beta-readers though. I always figure if I like what I'm writing others will too.

Don Allen · Jun 12, 2007

This may sound strange but it worked for me, I got about 10 people, some family members some aquaintences and some relatives I don't particularly like to read my book, and it gave me a basis for what I was doing right and where I needed to improve. I forwarned all of them that they were looking at a first draft and that I wasn't interested in their critique other than readablity. I figured if they didn't get bored to death I was on the right track. The weirdest thing was that wherever I thought there was a bump in the road, they usually found it as well, which I found helpful. I think you'll get a real honest critique on this board, but make sure your work is ready, these people know what is good and what isn't..

ErylRavenwell · Jun 12, 2007

johnzakour said:
Posting in the share your work section is a good idea.

I'm not a big fan of beta-readers though. I always figure if I like what I'm writing others will too.

Same here. I'm probably the harshest judge of my work.

justpat · Jun 12, 2007

I've never had much luck with beta readers, I always fear they are just trying to spare my feelings. But you shouldn't have that problem if you post your work here, there is always someone who will be honest (yet in a loving and gentle way)

katiemac · Jun 12, 2007

1. I have finished a 70,000 word novel that I’m having trouble getting feedback on. A few people have read through some of it and they said they liked what they read, but didn’t give me any real feedback. What should I do?

2. Should I shelve my novel for now and try to get some short stories published in magazines (like Weird Tales and Fantasy and Science fiction) so that I can have somewhat of a track record when I start shopping my novel around?

Hi big e, and welcome!

One way to ensure some feedback is to ask your readers questions. Don't assume they know what kind of information you want out of them. Do you suspect something might be wrong with your plot? Are you uneasy about some of the characters? Ask. It's the only way you're sure to get some feedback, other than "I thought it was good."

Track records aren't necessary to sell a novel. All writers have to start somewhere, don't they? Besides, while it sounds good in theory, short stories and novels aren't the same thing. Just because you know how to write one well doesn't mean you can write the other. But, to be realistic, having previous publishing experience does show an agent that someone other than your mother likes your writing. But if your query letter is good, and the book is good, it won't make a big difference either way. Do what you feel is best to get your novel sold.

johnzakour · Jun 12, 2007

One thing about beta readers, if they are your friends and family and they hate your story then you may be in serious need of a rewrite.

WordGypsy · Jun 12, 2007

johnzakour said:
One thing about beta readers, if they are your friends and family and they hate your story then you may be in serious need of a rewrite.

HAHA!!!

Shady Lane · Jun 12, 2007

Or a new family...

herdon · Jun 12, 2007

big e said:
1. I have finished a 70,000 word novel that I’m having trouble getting feedback on. A few people have read through some of it and they said they liked what they read, but didn’t give me any real feedback. What should I do?

2. Should I shelve my novel for now and try to get some short stories published in magazines (like Weird Tales and Fantasy and Science fiction) so that I can have somewhat of a track record when I start shopping my novel around?

1. Friends make bad critics. Join a writer's group, or find a message board (like this one) that shares manuscripts.

2. You edit the novel. You can certainly carry through with a plan to write and submit short stories in magazines, but writing credits won't make your novel any more or less publishable.

Cassidy · Jun 12, 2007

Shady Lane said:
Or a new family...

hah. that made me laugh out loud. yup, my family's job is to love whatever i write. for criticism i look eslewhere, but the kind of unconditional support that people who love me can offer is pretty nice to have too.

Stijn Hommes · Jun 13, 2007

If you ask complete strangers for feedback, they're more likely to be honest because they won't have to deal with you when you're moody in the house or on family visits. Use the share your work forum here or look for a ciritique group. I recommend critiquecircle.com, but I'm positive there's others.

chartreuse · Jun 13, 2007

I agree that the Share Your Work board here is a good idea. I'd also strongly recommend finding a good critique group.

The fact is that no matter how carefully you go over something, or how many drafts you do, fresh eyes will see things that you probably will never catch.

For instance, I just brought in a chapter for review to my critique group. The chapter opens with the MC paying a visit to a mental health facility. In the first few paragraphs, as she arrived, I mentioned that she sees breakfast being served. A few paragraphs later, the doctor of the patient she is there to see says that they will be able to catch the patient right before lunch. One member of the group pointed out that if they were just serving breakfast when the MC arrived, it would mean she would have to hang around for several hours in order to catch the patient right before lunch, which was completely unrealistic given the overall content of the scene.

There's usually at least a few things like that that come up each time - and nine times out of ten I can't say with certainty that I would have caught them myself.

Anyway, FWIW my suggestion would be to find a group and have them go through your novel start to finish. Depending on how often they meet and how much you're allowed to bring in, this could take quite awhile, but that would allow you to work on getting your short stories published.

Susan Gable · Jun 13, 2007

johnzakour said:
Posting in the share your work section is a good idea.

I'm not a big fan of beta-readers though. I always figure if I like what I'm writing others will too.

There's a big difference between a beta reader and a critique partner/group, or a critique from another writer, like what you will get in Share Your Work.

A beta reader is a READER. A crit partner is going to look at it from a writer's POV. Big difference. They can still LIKE what you've written, but offer helpful suggestions on how to improve it. (Or they can tell you it's got a lot of problems that a reader never even noticed.)

Susan G.

Jamesaritchie · Jun 13, 2007

Shorts

It's a heck of a lot easier to sell a novel than to sell short stories to decent markets. This is why short stories make good credits. You might be old and gray long before you sell a short story to one of the markets you listed.

James D. Macdonald · Jun 13, 2007

Find beta readers. Even ones who don't like you. Especially ones who don't like you. Include a filthy-mined 14 year old.

Go a parallel path: the novel (70K is mighty short) and short stories. Can't hurt, might help.

Write another novel.

johnzakour · Jun 13, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
It's a heck of a lot easier to sell a novel than to sell short stories to decent markets. This is why short stories make good credits. You might be old and gray long before you sell a short story to one of the markets you listed.

How true. I have like 13 novels either published or coming in 07, 08 and 09. Two weeks ago I FINALLY sold my first short story that's not part of an anthology. It will be in a July issue of the Journal of Nature. An interesting sale for sure.

JoNightshade · Jun 13, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
It's a heck of a lot easier to sell a novel than to sell short stories to decent markets. This is why short stories make good credits. You might be old and gray long before you sell a short story to one of the markets you listed.

I just realized that you're SO right. Woo hoo! ::Jo receives huge confidence boost:: I've sold short stories! If I can do that, I can get someone to buy my book!

arkady · Jun 14, 2007

johnzakour said:
Posting in the share your work section is a good idea.

It's a good idea, but it seems to me that many people who do so have inflated expectations of what the SYW criticisms can do for them. I posted both my opening and my query letter in SYW some time back, and got a great deal of useful (sometimes harsh, but still useful) advice. Based on this feedback, I made changes that have made both query and opener much better.

The result? Nothing different. I just collected my latest form rejection last Saturday. I was neither surprised nor disappointed (well, no more than usual, anyway).

So although putting your work before anonymous strangers for criticism is never a bad thing to do, keep it in perspective. Remember that most of the people on SYW are other unpublished writers just like you. My general rule is that if a lot of people pick up on the same thing, it's a problem and has to be fixed. If only one person comments on some aspect, it should be considered but not necessarily changed.

The remarks of the SYW critics (including mine) need to be given careful thought, but we're not editors at a publishing house. You don't have to implement our advice, and you shouldn't anticipate any great drop in your rejection rate when you do. Be clear about what you expect when you're putting your work before SYW or any similar group.

Shady Lane · Jun 14, 2007

Include a filthy-mined 14 year old.

So I AM doing something right!

Newbie with some questions

big e

Teh doommobile, drivin' rite by you

my name is hannah

has finally arrived

AW Inmate #90976

Dangerous with a Keyboard

Seeking a Sanctuary of Intelligence

QueryTracker

Five by Five

Dangerous with a Keyboard

my name is hannah

What's up?

writing for kids and teens

Know what you write...

Dreamer of dreams, teller of tales

Your Genial Uncle

Dangerous with a Keyboard

has finally arrived

my name is hannah