When is enough, enough?

Linx · May 30, 2007

I wrote a novel, my first novel actually, that I love dearly. I think its got a good story to it, its fairly well written, and an easy read. The people around me that have read it, enjoyed it. I decided to choose people who would be painfully honest, no matter what my feelings towards it.

That was the best thing to do.

I have edited and revised and edited and revised et al.

Its a great piece of work but I can't seem to find an agent to represent it, and honestly I am getting extremely discouraged. I am the type of person that will never give up, that will keep fighting to the end but I am about to hit the 250 mark with my agency submissions.

I am currently listed here :

http://mcarthurbaker.co.uk/nolan.aspx

I have no contract with them though.

I guess I just want to know, when is enough, enough? When should you give up and abandon hope that your novel will sell, and move on to your next piece?

It hurts to think that I might have to, but I guess reality stings a bit every now and than.

CaroGirl · May 30, 2007

I have to say, 250 rejections would certainly be more than the limit for me. Take what you learned from writing that first novel and pour it into your next. Writing is a learning process and, from what I've read, not many first novels sell.

All the best!

WackAMole · May 30, 2007

I have never given up on my first work. I've gotten mean rejections, nice rejections, form letter rejections, requests for partials, but never anyone that took it on. My first book will always be my baby. I set it aside, and when I am feeling a little lonely or having trouble on my current WIP, I pick up my old "first" and play around with it.

I learned so much writing it and my dream is to someday "rewrite" it with all the heaps and heaps of knowledge I get from places like this

I guess I'm kind of the typical sucker. My philosophy is "this is my baby, and if it never sells a single copy, it will always be my personal best because it started me on the road to doing what I love and doing it better."

I say shelve it, and I just about bet you one day a bell will go off in your head and you will try again. Timing is everything!

(my bells gone off about 6 times so far on my first btw

)

Jamesaritchie · May 30, 2007

Enough

You don't have to give up, but there's no use beating a dead novel, either. By the time one novel has 250 rejections, you should have finished at least two more novels. You should always move on to your next piece the day after you finish the last piece. Okay, make it a week later. But no more than this. It's never a good idea to write one novel, and then spend all your effort trying to sell that novel.

Of course, it is important to know how many times the novel has been rejected, and how many times a query for the novel has been rejected. If agents aren't asking to read the novel, then you have a bad query letter, not necessarily a bad novel.

But how do you know the people who have read it are painfully honest? Or that they have a clue about good and bad, marketable and unmarketable, publishable or unpublishable?

Really, in almost thirty years, I've yet to hear a single writer say, "I let people around me read my novel, and none of them liked it." It's always, "I let people around me read my novel, and they all liked it."

It seems half the cover letters in a slush pile say the same thing, no matter how terrible the manuscript is.

Linx · May 30, 2007

I havent gotten 250 rejections yet, only about 30. I have sent out 250 letters. I am listed on one site -

http://mcarthurbaker.co.uk/nolan.aspx

But with no contract.

Also a publishing company, that seems to have a horrible rep was interested in it. So maybe I am just impatient? I started shopping it around about 6 weeks ago.

johnzakour · May 30, 2007

Yeah, don't give up, but learn from those rejections and start a new novel.

You can let friends read your novel if you like but don't expect anything useful to come out of it. Unless your friends are professional book critics, editors, publishers and agents. Even then take it with a grain of salt as it's hard for friends to critique friends.

jhtatroe · May 30, 2007

I'm sure it feels like it to you, but 6 weeks isn't really that long in publishing time and 250 queries is a huge number to have put out in that amount of time. My advice is to a) sit on your hands for a while and under NO circumstances send out any more queries, b) put this novel on the backburner and start on a new one, or c) both of the above.

FloVoyager · May 30, 2007

Seems like a little patience is in order. And 250 at once? Did I read that right? You may find your dance card filling up in a few weeks. I hope so. Good luck. Work on something else and wait and see on this one.

Branwyn · May 30, 2007

It is hard, at least for me, to keep motivated when things aren't going as planned. I started book 3 but have hit a brick wall.

Good Luck! :Hug2:

scarletpeaches · May 31, 2007

Linx said:
When should you give up and abandon hope that your novel will sell, and move on to your next piece?

As soon as you've finished writing it.

Linx · May 31, 2007

I have already started my second one - I am about 25% done with it. I started that a few weeks ago, its just - I guess I am kind of worried that if I can't sell my first one than why try to sell the second.

I'll always write, its my passion I can't just NOT write.

ccarver30 · May 31, 2007

Don't lose your focus as to WHY you write - it isn't to get published, I hope.

Linx · May 31, 2007

No its not, thats what I mean - Ill always write.

But if its not going to sell than I just wont try to sell it.

Branwyn · May 31, 2007

I write to be read, therefore yes, to be published. :Headbang:

joyce · May 31, 2007

I have not received that many rejections on my first, but I did not send out that many querys. I have revised my query several times and it's still in the SYW for further review because I believe that is where my problem is. I have a request for a full and a partial, and probably 30 rejections. My requests for the full and the partial came after query revision number 50. I have not heard back from the agents, but I still feel I can do better on the damn query thing. I believe my manuscript is interesting, but if I can't get the main points across clearly in my query I know it won't grab attention. It seems like it's taking me longer to write a query letter than it took to write the whole novel. Hang in there, look at your stuff with fresh eyes because it could be the ole query letter.

Pisarz · May 31, 2007

Branwyn said:
I write to be read, therefore yes, to be published.

Me too. And I don't make any apologies for it. Nor should I have to--we all have our reasons for pursuing hobbies or careers, and if they aren't illegal or harming others, said reasons don't need to be justified or excused.

Linx · May 31, 2007

Of course I'd love to be published - its a dream of mine. But I didnt start writing when I was 10 yr's old with the hopes of one day getting on a best sellers list!

Jamesaritchie · May 31, 2007

Linx said:
I have already started my second one - I am about 25% done with it. I started that a few weeks ago, its just - I guess I am kind of worried that if I can't sell my first one than why try to sell the second.

I'll always write, its my passion I can't just NOT write.

The first one isn't supposed to sell. I mean, on very rare occasions, a first novel does sell, but it's like hitting the lottery. First novels are almost never good enough to sell.

You don't really think you're as good as you're going to get, do you? Why would you assume that a first novel is good enough to sell, good enough to be better than at least 99% of all the other novels out there? Even Stephen King had to write four novels before writing one anyone wanted.

Genius though he was, do you think da vinci's first painting was good enough for a museum? Of course not.

Even in other areas of writing, most assume first efforts are not going to be good enough. Most short story writers just naturally assume they'll have to write dozens and dozens of short stories, maybe hundreds, before they gain the skill to write one that sells.

But for some odd reason, novelists seem to assume a first novel is going to be good enough to beat out at least 99% of everything out there, that their first attempt is better than the third or fourth or fifth attempt of other writers. My guess is this happens because a novel is a big project that usually takes quite a while, and few want to believe all the effort won't produce a sale. There are always rare exceptions, but it almost certainly won't.

Learning to write well is a process, where productivity, staying power, and dedication are as important as talent. We may be born with talent, but we all have to learn craft and skill. And odds are we will not learn on a first attempt.

First attempts at anything in any field are usually pretty bad, at least when compared to seasoned, professional level attempts. It simply is not reasonable to expect a first novel to sell. And even when the rare first novel does sell, there's usually something in the writer's background that taught that writer an awful lot about writing well before the first novel was written.

Really, don't you believe you still have much to learn? Don't you think you'll improve as a writer, if you keep writing novels? Don't you believe it's logical to assume that your second novel will likely be better than your first, and your third will be better than your second, and your fourth will be better than your third?

So why try to sell the second one? Because it should be better than your first.

Linx · May 31, 2007

Jamesaritchie said:
The first one isn't supposed to sell. I mean, on very rare occasions, a first novel does sell, but it's like hitting the lottery. First novels are almost never good enough to sell.

You don't really think you're as good as you're going to get, do you? Why would you assume that a first novel is good enough to sell, good enough to be better than at least 99% of all the other novels out there? Even Stephen King had to write four novels before writing one anyone wanted.

Genius though he was, do you think da vinci's first painting was good enough for a museum? Of course not.

Even in other areas of writing, most assume first efforts are not going to be good enough. Most short story writers just naturally assume they'll have to write dozens and dozens of short stories, maybe hundreds, before they gain the skill to write one that sells.

But for some odd reason, novelists seem to assume a first novel is going to be good enough to beat out at least 99% of everything out there, that their first attempt is better than the third or fourth or fifth attempt of other writers. My guess is this happens because a novel is a big project that usually takes quite a while, and few want to believe all the effort won't produce a sale. There are always rare exceptions, but it almost certainly won't.

Learning to write well is a process, where productivity, staying power, and dedication are as important as talent. We may be born with talent, but we all have to learn craft and skill. And odds are we will not learn on a first attempt.

First attempts at anything in any field are usually pretty bad, at least when compared to seasoned, professional level attempts. It simply is not reasonable to expect a first novel to sell. And even when the rare first novel does sell, there's usually something in the writer's background that taught that writer an awful lot about writing well before the first novel was written.

Really, don't you believe you still have much to learn? Don't you think you'll improve as a writer, if you keep writing novels? Don't you believe it's logical to assume that your second novel will likely be better than your first, and your third will be better than your second, and your fourth will be better than your third?

So why try to sell the second one? Because it should be better than your first.

Thank you very much - I needed to hear something like that.

KingRat · Jun 1, 2007

Whether or not you give up on your first (or most recent) project should have no impact on starting the next one. Should it?

popmuze · Jun 2, 2007

If this is the project you described on a different thread, you may have some difficulty getting an agent or a publisher to read it.
Once you figure out why, maybe two or three novels from now, you will probably have an excellent chance of producing something agents and editors will want to read.

When is enough, enough?

Linx

CaroGirl

Living the dream

WackAMole

WTF?!?!

Jamesaritchie

Linx

johnzakour

Dangerous with a Keyboard

jhtatroe

FloVoyager

Will write for chocolate

Branwyn

Print release:Sept.1,'09

scarletpeaches

Linx

ccarver30

Nicole Castro

Linx

Branwyn

Print release:Sept.1,'09

joyce

I'm really shy...

Pisarz

Linx

Jamesaritchie

Linx

KingRat

popmuze

Last of a Dying Breed