No rhyme without meter? What?

skelly · May 25, 2007

in a crit that I read recently, someone (I won't say who...I'm not calling anybody out) made the rather broad statement that, in poetry, you cannot have rhyme without meter. Does anybody else adhere to this? I think it is a lot of malarky, myself, and I cheerfully write rhymed poetry that does not have any meter.

UNLESS you have a very broad interpretation of the term "meter," to include what I might call a "rhythmic flow." I do believe that there is a certain "rhythm" in poetry that distinguishes it from prose, and this rhythm is created by the words that I choose to use--but not by any strict adherence to stressed or unstressed syllabic combinations, which is what I call "meter."

What do the rest of you think?

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

I don't think anyone can disagree with you under the strict parameters you've established in your question.

skelly said:
in a crit that I read recently, someone (I won't say who...I'm not calling anybody out) made the rather broad statement that, in poetry, you cannot have rhyme without meter. Does anybody else adhere to this? I think it is a lot of malarky, myself, and I cheerfully write rhymed poetry that does not have any meter.

UNLESS you have a very broad interpretation of the term "meter," to include what I might call a "rhythmic flow." I do believe that there is a certain "rhythm" in poetry that distinguishes it from prose, and this rhythm is created by the words that I choose to use--but not by any strict adherence to stressed or unstressed syllabic combinations, which is what I call "meter."

What do the rest of you think?

scarletpeaches · May 25, 2007

All I know is I don't like free verse, or poems without rhyme AND meter. I just don't 'get' any other sort of poetry, so that's what I read, and that's what I write.

Pat~ · May 25, 2007

Probably what the critter meant was that typically rhymed poems are supposed to also have meter. They usually follow a pattern of some sort in structure as well as meter.

davids · May 25, 2007

Is not a meter about a yard or so? I got rhythm I got rhythm I got twelve kids who could ask for anything more-contraceptive hymn as sung by my Catholic friends!!

Now-if you ask us about any of the above questions-BTHOOM!

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
All I know is I don't like free verse, or poems without rhyme AND meter. I just don't 'get' any other sort of poetry, so that's what I read, and that's what I write.

Sing it my sweet Dundee dumpling

Si metrum non habet, non est poema.

davids · May 25, 2007

LimeyDawg said:
Sing it my sweet Dundee dumpling

Si metrum non habet, non est poema.

Wenn du dast tust must du auch es sauber machen!!!!

scarletpeaches · May 25, 2007

Pat~ said:
Probably what the critter meant was that typically rhymed poems are supposed to also have meter. They usually follow a pattern of some sort in structure as well as meter.

I could be wrong, but I don't think heroic verse has a typical metric pattern, or the clerihew (where certainly the last two lines are often completely out of whack, to use a genuine poetic term).

davids · May 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think heroic verse has a typical metric pattern, or the clerihew (where certainly the last two lines are often completely out of whack, to use a genuine poetic term).

Christ you guys sure know a hell of a lot about poetry! I think-therefore-er-oh hell I think I will go write an heroic node to the Goddess of Cypriotic chastity!

scarletpeaches · May 25, 2007

davids the lobster
once was a mobster
he came out of his shell
so we all say "Didn't he do well?"

^^^Voila, a clerihew.

davids · May 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
davids the lobster
once was a mobster
he came out of his shell
so we all say "Didn't he do well?"

^^^Voila, a clerihew.

Voila a whatahew? You silly you!!!! You still owe me one about something you promised me in a thread this week and as usual I have not a freakin' clue what it was-but I had looked forward to it-now I am all sad and am gonna go kill somebody-figurativatiously of course!

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

davids said:
Wenn du dast tust must du auch es sauber machen!!!!

I'm always clean, baby.

scarletpeaches · May 25, 2007

davids said:
Voila a whatahew? You silly you!!!! You still owe me one about something you promised me in a thread this week and as usual I have not a freakin' clue what it was-but I had looked forward to it-now I am all sad and am gonna go kill somebody-figurativatiously of course!

I promised you a sonnet about hairy bum luv apparently...why do I talk myself into these things?

I still need a rhyme for 'buttocks in the shower'.

davids · May 25, 2007

LimeyDawg said:
I'm always clean, baby.

HA-das habe ich so oft gehort-wie umlauts im Nuttenhouse-rot zone schlampe! A loveable one but nevertheless a schlampe!!!! Clean up I should think!

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

You've done what so often that you umlaut in the nut house like a red-light district what???? Damned translation software...won't tell me the naughty words, lol.

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

umlaut...umlaut??? That's the word in that Scorpions song where I can't figure out what the hey Mr. Schenker is singing...what is that? gonna have to google it.

davids · May 25, 2007

LimeyDawg said:
You've done what so often that you umlaut in the nut house like a red-light district what???? Damned translation software...won't tell me the naughty words, lol.

See I learned my German in a whore house and bars and all the good places!!!!

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

google gave me schlampe too, lol. Pretty close to what I thought...

LimeyDawg · May 25, 2007

so...you get it so often your screaming in the nuthouse like a red-light district slut...??? Uh, thanks for sharing, lol....sounds like you spent some time around Kyserslautern.

davids · May 25, 2007

LimeyDawg said:
umlaut...umlaut??? That's the word in that Scorpions song where I can't figure out what the hey Mr. Schenker is singing...what is that? gonna have to google it.

Don't bother it's those damnable little .. above certain letters that change the sound of them-uberschlank-too thin-the u has to have an umlaut over it which makes the difference for example between oohberschlank and youberschlank. When I write reviews for German magazines which I still do on occasion-classical stuff-my wife who may or may not be over there has to re write em with the umlauts-the damn magazine wont do it and I have not found a key board here that has em and frankly I'd rather have her or my professor buddy do em. They both owe me big time. If you have the words I'll translate em-to the song that is!!!!

Actually I did-they have a nice little theatre there where I worked while I was still and anfanger!!

They have some fine whores there and a reasonably good beer!

Pat~ · May 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I could be wrong, but I don't think heroic verse has a typical metric pattern, or the clerihew (where certainly the last two lines are often completely out of whack, to use a genuine poetic term).

Yeesh, had to look up clerihew!

I'm pretty sure most of the epic poetry (if that's what you mean with the heroic verse) had a set meter; either iambic pentameter or dactyllic hexameter. But there may be an exception I'm not aware of...

Love the new avatar!

Norman D Gutter · May 25, 2007

Well, I was the one who said in a crit that rhyme without meter does not work, so I'd better step to the plate here.

IMHO, rhyme without meter does not work. I have yet to read a poem that rhymes from end to end, and which does not have any metrical, and which is what I would call a good poem. Some non-metrical poems will use such sonic devices as internal rhyme and occasional end rhymes, and use these very well. Some free verse poems incorporate occasional or partial meter, for phrases or for lines or individual strophes.

I don't know why this is, whether it is strictly reader expectations, or if it is something inherent in the English language. If reader expectation, you would think that by this time someone would have written a non-metrical poem with full rhymes that is excellent that would have changed reader expectations.

For some reason, metrical poems that don't rhyme tend to work very well, when done well of course. Many examples of blank verse exist that have stood the test of time and been judged as excellent.

It just doesn't seem to work the other way around.

NDG

Writer??? · May 25, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I promised you a sonnet about hairy bum luv apparently...why do I talk myself into these things?

I still need a rhyme for 'buttocks in the shower'.

depends who we're talking about...
"Sagging globes of fading power"

or

"Shielding orbs to puckered flower"

or

"Hairy, flat - once mighty tower,"

:ROFL:

skelly · May 25, 2007

Norman D Gutter said:
Well, I was the one who said in a crit that rhyme without meter does not work, so I'd better step to the plate here.

IMHO, rhyme without meter does not work. I have yet to read a poem that rhymes from end to end, and which does not have any metrical, and which is what I would call a good poem. Some non-metrical poems will use such sonic devices as internal rhyme and occasional end rhymes, and use these very well. Some free verse poems incorporate occasional or partial meter, for phrases or for lines or individual strophes.

I don't know why this is, whether it is strictly reader expectations, or if it is something inherent in the English language. If reader expectation, you would think that by this time someone would have written a non-metrical poem with full rhymes that is excellent that would have changed reader expectations.

For some reason, metrical poems that don't rhyme tend to work very well, when done well of course. Many examples of blank verse exist that have stood the test of time and been judged as excellent.

It just doesn't seem to work the other way around.

NDG

Please don't think for a moment that I was trying to "call you out" on the issue. Not at all. I always enjoy reading your posts and learn a great deal from them. I just wanted to see what other people thought on the subject. You seem to have softened your position from "can't have" to :doesn't seem to work," which I suppose we can agree to disagree about. Thanks for clarifying this issue for me NDG.

Dollywagon · May 26, 2007

scarletpeaches said:
I promised you a sonnet about hairy bum luv apparently...why do I talk myself into these things?

I still need a rhyme for 'buttocks in the shower'.

'Steely buns of latent power'

No rhyme without meter? What?

skelly

Kickin it old school, posers beware

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

scarletpeaches

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

davids

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

davids

scarletpeaches

davids

scarletpeaches

davids

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

scarletpeaches

davids

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

davids

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

LimeyDawg

Scars are poems too

davids

Pat~

Luftmensch Emeritus, A.D.D.

Norman D Gutter

Engineer Sonneteer

Writer???

Because EYE said so!

skelly

Kickin it old school, posers beware

Dollywagon